Switching to Led's etc have a question..

Hello everyone, Just want to say thank you to everyone on here that comments. I will always be thankful to all the info I have read and that was given to me when I started growing back in 2008 when Medical came out. I havn't been on much over the years but do pop on once in awhile.. Well , My wife (helper) wants to finally make the switch to led's. This is something I know very little of. I have been reading the last few days but there is so many options out their and scattered info I just get confused and get a headache.. I have been using 2 1k MH's in the veg room and then when the plants get about 2-2 1/2 feet tall ish I then would move them to the flower room. The flower room had 7 1k HPS with knock off xxxtreme air cooled reflectors.. Anyways, I would like to veg and flower in the same room if I can. I know that perpetual is nice like I have been doing but I would like to give the veg room space to the wife for her woodworking. The area for plants would be around 16-18' x 10'. I know by switching it isn't going to be cheap and I am not rich and I don't grow for profit as I have low income patients I grow for also ( I am low income too) but I have been saving to do this. I still would like to get the best bang for my buck I guess you could say as even though I said I saved some $ up , we still live check by check. I am a DIY'er and was a certified electrician before I became disabled and now I repair ham radios and amplifiers for a job.. So I can solder and do any wiring necessary. I see the HLG boards that you can buy off Amazon , like 4 of the 132's for $149 and then you have to buy the driver. They claim those boards don't need a heatsink but is this true? I would just hate to buy the crazy amount of boards I would need to burn up etc if this isn't true. To me it looked decent priced (well better then buying put together) doing it this way. So that is 1 thing going through my mind.. Another is buying Cob Lights and build with them or buy a kit if its cheaper and do the Led's on boards myself? I just don't know. As I said, I know it is going to cost a good amount of $ to do the size room that I am working with, but as I said I still need to do it saving as much $ as I can but need to make sure I have darn good lighting too.. I am thankful for any suggestions as I am stumped and don't know what to go with.. Please remember I do not want to go back to HPS or MH.. Has to be some type of led etc.. Thank you guys for all the help you give, I really appreciate it and will be waiting to see what your recommendations are.. Btw , I have np ordering overseas if I have too also..

Well I am building some LED lights that will replace DE 1kW HPS lights. The cost is ending up about 700 per fixture. Thing I learned is that the LED lights will degrade output due to chemicals in the air reacting with the LED. They don't stop working but they loose output, I was told figures in the neighborhood of 10% loss in 2 years. Something that nobody in the industry is discussing because they want to sell lights. I think all the sales we are seeing / will see are manufacturers dumping product before this next generation product arrives. Having learned that I am glad I am not building more than just 6 lights and I am glad I will be able to replace the COB chips in the future.

I have been told that sometime before the end of the year a new LED product will drop which addresses the degradation issue. Had I known this a little sooner I would have waited.

I had a whole long thing typed out about why I feel it would be a mistake to go led. The basis of which is if you lose any yield at all your not saving money on electric unless your actually giving your herb away. That being said I reread your post and won't try to convince you to stay hps.

Is cmh and option I do well with it at 35 watts per sq ft. So you can save some money if you were previously running 50+ watts per sq ft of hps.

LEDs, I would stay away from quantum boards, well I would now that I've got some and don't care for them. It sounds like your handy with electronics what you need to do is copy as close as possible the gavita fixture (would have said Spyder too but there are a few models and not sure of which one). @diggs99 has a strip build on here somewhere and it's clean. But if it was me and I was handy like that I'd try to copy exactly the gavita fixture. Anyways pretty sure the strips can be run without a heat sink.

If you decide you would rather stay with hid just show the wife how much it's gonna cost to switch and she should back off. Lol

Well , at this point I have no choice to buy new equipment. I took everything down and stripped the room to get ready for new equipment. I sold everything to a gentleman that came a state away to pick it up. Market here is flooded with old school Hps and Mh equipment so its cheap so non legal state folks buy our used equipment. Sad, because it should be legal everywhere.. So I decided to go with the luminus cxm-22's. I really like the optilight 100xl but at $200 ouch... Much easier for me to purchase a decent amount of the cxm-22's and build them. Unless there is a better cob out there. I read that this is one of the better ones so figure give it a shot. Seems can run with a heatsink like the optilight around 75 watt each and I can just pick up some bigger meanwell drivers to do 8 at a time, I will have a backup driver too and make a few backup cobs just in case for emergency. If there is a better cob out there to build with please let me know. I have been looking on cobkit website at his stuff but I don't see where he sells the second part of the heatsink to hang with or the lens. Still quite confused but getting there by reading more and more. Thank You above for your info and comments. I am not going back to hps or mh, want to get away from that much heat and AC and forcing tons of air. My furnace keeps my room at great temps all year but hps,mh,cmh makes it unbearable. Always wanted to try led and if I don't get enough light in the room right away I can keep adding more. Whats nice about the cobs is if a chip goes or technology gets better , can just replace the chip basically and holder but heatsinks and meanwell driver if new chips are same voltage will be able to switch out.. Anyways, if there is better option for building a better cob at better price/light please let me know.. Thank You everyone..

ftrfta said:

So I decided to go with the luminus cxm-22's

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Thats what I went with as well, Gen 4 3500K. Right now they are the best in the 20 - 120 watt power range.



That chart is with the Gen 3 CXM-22 so the Gen 4 is a little better.

I went 3500K because you get more blue and the red stays pretty much the same compared to the 3000K.

Renfro , did you order from cobkit or did you find a better place. I see you can get the driver at cobkit for $200 for 8 cobs but can get it elsewhere from a reputable dealer for $140. I hate not supporting smaller businesses but when you have to buy a bunch of them , $60 each in savings is quite a bit. If I purchase the cobs and cob holder and heatsink from cobkit I still dont see the lens or the part above the heatsink as an option to buy. Back to researching... thank you for the chart. I too was thinking 3500k.. I will get pics of the room once set up too.. I know other prolly have pics of their rooms with cobs but 1 more can't hurt

ftrfta said:

Renfro , did you order from cobkit or did you find a better place. I see you can get the driver at cobkit for $200 for 8 cobs but can get it elsewhere from a reputable dealer for $140. I hate not supporting smaller businesses but when you have to buy a bunch of them , $60 each in savings is quite a bit. If I purchase the cobs and cob holder and heatsink from cobkit I still dont see the lens or the part above the heatsink as an option to buy. Back to researching... thank you for the chart. I too was thinking 3500k.. I will get pics of the room once set up too.. I know other prolly have pics of their rooms with cobs but 1 more can't hurt

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I did get my parts from cobkits. Can you send me a link to the driver you are looking at? His prices are usually in line... I know for a fact that if you contact @CobKits he can help you with pricing and getting the gen 4 chips.

If it were me I would contact Cobby and get a good deal on all the stuff you will need. He gave me a great deal. He can also guide you in selecting components and whatnot.

What is the part above the heatsink that you are referring to? There are no lenses on cobs but you could use a reflector on cobs that are on the outer egdes of your growing area.

The chip, chip holder, heatsink plus some wire and driver is the basic kit.

The driver was one of the drivers cobkit recommends for 8 of the cxm-22's at 75 watts.. I will have to search the net again but I just copied the model # off his site and pasted to google and about 5m of going through links It was listed at $140 and it did have $10 shipping so I need to correct the difference, would be $50 cheaper.. I am sure cobkit charges shipping so probably is around 60$.. There where companies that had it anywhere from the $140 and some $150 and good amount in $160 range.. If can't find it I'll look and post it later tonight. I don't see gen 4 on cobs site. I see digikey has 2 diff gen 4 3500k cxm-22's.. One is $19 ish if buy under 10 , over 10 was like $18 and case of 100 they were $12 each.. The second 3500k version was $21, $19 , and a 100 they were $13.. I take it the more expensive one is the one we want.. I am trying to figure out if 100 would be good or is it overkill or too less. My brain is not working good atm. Room is 18 x 10 foot. I want to do the best I can for that space. Buying 100 seems to be the way to go. If its the more expensive, $13 each for 100 is not bad , like $1300 , do like 12 sets of 8, so 96 of them and this way have 4 left for spares. Would be 13 drivers, 1 driver as a spare, now to find the holders for gen 4 or are they compatible with gen 3 ones etc.. also wondering if the heatsinks cobkit has will they work and mount up to gen 4's.. I still have a lot more researching to do because I didnt log in to digikey to see what price was with my business acct, I have business acct with digikey, mouser, and arrow as I order all my parts from their for ham radio and amplifier repair and give all 3 of them quite a bit of business.. if they sell chips I am wondering if they sell holders and heatsinks too. If not I also know a couple companies that mass produce heatsinks as I have had them make me heatsinks for some ham amplifiers and they beat most places on price when ordering like 100 heatsinks etc.. just send em pics , sizes and product data sheet etc.. what's nice is they usually dont charge for doing the design etc as long as they know your buying a good amount of them, and what's nice is they will have it on file if others want them made too.. Well, back to researching, once I figure it all out I will post what I did and places I purchased from and prices etc.. I am still also going to contact cobkit and see what he can do too. I have used his website to learn from so would like to give him some business too. Well 6 billion more hours of research and I'll have it figured out lol. Once done though it will be nice and worth it. I just cant see paying $1500-$2k per light that the more quality companies want when you can DIY it so much cheaper. Not cheap but way better then their prices.. I need to figure out the math on how many I need to cover the 18'x10' to its max potential. If I need way more then can always keep adding etc. That's cool thing about DIY'ing. Ok I'm done rambling and going to bed as I been up for like 30 hours and prolly not making much sense on half of what I posted lol. Will update what i find out..

After thinking, I would only need like 50-60 cxm-22's for that space you would think? Or am I thinking that wrong.. 18x10 foot. How many would you do if you could in that space? Or would it be more like 100 or even more.. ok I'm done, brain is not thinking right. Be back tomorrow lol..

96 of em at 75 watts is 7200watts. You have 180 sq ft so that is 40 watts per sq ft.

Apalchen said:

I had a whole long thing typed out about why I feel it would be a mistake to go led. The basis of which is if you lose any yield at all your not saving money on electric unless your actually giving your herb away. That being said I reread your post and won't try to convince you to stay hps.

Is cmh and option I do well with it at 35 watts per sq ft. So you can save some money if you were previously running 50+ watts per sq ft of hps.

LEDs, I would stay away from quantum boards, well I would now that I've got some and don't care for them. It sounds like your handy with electronics what you need to do is copy as close as possible the gavita fixture (would have said Spyder too but there are a few models and not sure of which one). @diggs99 has a strip build on here somewhere and it's clean. But if it was me and I was handy like that I'd try to copy exactly the gavita fixture. Anyways pretty sure the strips can be run without a heat sink.

If you decide you would rather stay with hid just show the wife how much it's gonna cost to switch and she should back off. Lol

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What didn't you like about Quantum boards?

PopeyeSpinach said:

What didn't you like about Quantum boards?

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Most likely user error on my part, but I've never in my life grown such shitty buds, (well except very first grow which was terrible but was like 15 years ago or more). I ended up turning the whole run into oil cause the buds weren't up to par. I guess my temps were a lil low but otherwise I had a hell of a time the whole grow keeping the plants happy. And by low temps I don't mean anything crazy I was at 77 or higher. I'm sure I could have put some effort in and figured it all out but I have my 315s dialed and it was easier just to hang one back up in that tent. I'm very busy majority of time and don't have time to waste and CMH puts out quality every time.

Am also like what CMH does to buds but i love HPS still as i pulling quality even under them..

anyway now i try first time LEDs and plants grow good in vegetative,nice fat branches shot out stalk..
still maybe i finish flowering under CMH.. all reports says they are best for terp content and potency..

better than a LEDs..

I prefer cmh for quality but also run hps and don't think it's that far off. If your plants are doing good under led it might be worth a try flowering under them just to see, that is if you can take the loss if it doesn't turn out. If that's your smoke for the next few months or your only tent I'd be too chicken to try led again in that case. I'm going to give mine one more try eventually when I don't feel like I absolutely need the what's coming out of that tent.

I used to say the same things about LED and quality until I actually did a run under a good LED light. The terpene content was much more and more complex, not sure if that was due to the hydro but it was superb and the LED definitely didn't lack in that category. The yields were as good as with HPS. Nugs were like rocks. Mega potent. Way better than stuff I grew from the same moms using the same nutes in soiless mix under HPS and CMH. So a good LED can do as good with terpene and resin production and yield per square foot. Just has to be a good one and you need to run warmer under it.

Thanx for advice Apalachen... that is right mine toughts and i dont feel ready to jump too much fast
on train called LEDs.. but still i buyed these fixture and i need to sees what she can done...

if i will not be happy am mount 2 x 315 CMH in same space to get some quality out..

Renfro said:

I used to say the same things about LED and quality until I actually did a run under a good LED light. The terpene content was much more and more complex, not sure if that was due to the hydro but it was superb and the LED definitely didn't lack in that category. The yields were as good as with HPS. Nugs were like rocks. Mega potent. Way better than stuff I grew from the same moms using the same nutes in soiless mix under HPS and CMH. So a good LED can do as good with terpene and resin production and yield per square foot. Just has to be a good one and you need to run warmer under it.

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What LEDs you use??

How much warmer i need to go with temperature inside room?


Kind regards Renfro

Dog Star said:

What LEDs you use??

How much warmer i need to go with temperature inside room?


Kind regards Renfro

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I ran my tent at 85 - 87 degrees. My light was a DIY LED with 8 COBs, Luminous CXM-22 Gen 3 3500K 90 CRI. It can run at 480 watts but I don't use more than about 350 watts max in that 2x4 tent. More like 300 watts most of the grow but during their peak part of flower I juice them up to about 350 watts since I do have CO2 at 800 - 1000 PPM in there, bleed over from my other rooms. 6 COBs could have done the job but 8 gives a little better spread and they run more efficient at the lower wattage. Since money wasn't the concern I opted for the 2 extra COBs because I was skeptical about the whole LED thing and I figured I may need more wattage but I didn't.

Energy savings are definite since you are running with a little less wattage plus the AC doesn't have to work as hard so on a large scale setup I would imagine a 50% energy savings is believable. And I understand its not a savings if you are losing yield or quality, I preached that for years but LED finally caught up, now we just have to see those prices fall and the tech get even better.

Thanx for kind answer Renfro...

am buyed Zeus 308 XT boards,they say they have over 200 lumen per watt and have 4 red-blue arrays for emerson,
i cant predict much but i hope they grow some fat buds..

fixture is 480W strong and those 4 arrays i think 550W all together and i run it on strongest 10 inch from
top of a plants,this are bigger boards with larger spread between diodes,its 44 x 28.5 cm.. its
almost double the size of compact series that are only 25 cm long..
3500K colour of diodes and i grow inside 1x1x2 meter tent...

Do you think this is overkill??

Dog Star said:

Thanx for kind answer Renfro...

am buyed Zeus 308 XT boards,they say they have over 200 lumen per watt and have 4 red-blue arrays for emerson,
i cant predict much but i hope they grow some fat buds..

fixture is 480W strong and those 4 arrays i think 550W all together and i run it on strongest 10 inch from
top of a plants,this are bigger boards with larger spread between diodes,its 44 x 28.5 cm.. its
almost double the size of compact series that are only 25 cm long..
3500K colour of diodes and i grow inside 1x1x2 meter tent...

Do you think this is overkill??

Click to expand...

I would say for that space 410 watts is about max for quality LED. I am not familiar with those particular lights. If you aim for 35 - 40 watts per square foot you will be on the high end provided it's a quality LED. The plants will tell you if they are happy, you wanna see her fan leaves sticking upwards at an angle like they are grabbing all the light they can, if you see them angling down and away from the light it can be light stress and they are trying to avoid the light. You may have to dim the light a little or raise it a little to tune the power.