The end to all of the organic flushing questions

I have posted on this particular subject a few times and I still see that it comes up pretty frequently.

It would seem that some people are having a tuff time wrapping their mind around why there is a need to flush organic soil. Also some people are having tuff time understanding why there might be extra or even an excess of food in the soil. People are even a little confused about the fact that plants only take from the soil what they are going to use. So I would like to take this opportunity to clear up some of the confusion and misinformation that surrounds this subject.

The first thing I would like to touch on is the soil, more specifically the micro herd. In an organic soil you rely mostly on the living organisms to produce “food” for your plants. They do this simply by living and reproducing and as a byproduct of this they produce “food”. The amount of “food” they produce has absolutely no bearing on how much the plant can or will use it is simply their act of living. So inevitably the chances of having extra “food” in the soil are quite high. The second thing I would like to clear up is the fact that plants only take in what they will use. This is 100% True.....But some of you are not quite getting the full picture behind this. I am going to try to explain this as simply as I can. First a plant will not take in extra “food”. Second what is “extra”? Some people think that it means food without a purpose. This is true. At this point some of you are thinking “Then how can there be extra “food” in the plant.” The answer is simple. Plants store “food” and “energy” in many parts of the plant including leaves, stems, and roots. So in fact this so called extra “food” does indeed have a purpose. Also plants will store this “food”/”energy” as an insoluble starch i.e. not glucose that is soluble. So the only way you’re going to get it out of the plant is to force the plant to use it.
If you cant think of some reasons as to why a plant could possibly store “food” I would suggest that you Google it and you will find many articles pertaining to 5th and 6th grade biology that I hope you can understand and will answer those question quite readily.

Now organic or not the whole idea behind "FLUSHING" serves 2 purposes.

The first is to remove any "food" in the soil that the plant can readily use.
Second is to starve the plant forcing it to use all the food it has stored up as starch. The only way to get a plant to use its stored energy reserves is to starve it. This has two major effects on the finished product.

1. You get to taste the buds not the dirt or anything that may be in the dirt. Or even anything the plant may have been holding on to. This creates a smoother more clean smoking product.

2. Starving the plant makes it pump into overdrive as a survival tactic. Layering on the calyxes and frost in a last ditch effort to stay alive and have a chance to reproduce. At this point I would like to point out that I have never seen a healthy well grown pot plant “stunt” or pitter out because it is being starved near the end of its life.

One simple method that I use is to "flush" the pots with enough water that the runoff will be clear. This removes any food that may readily usable. Keep in mind your micro herd will keep on living and producing more food. Do this approx 2 or so weeks before you think you’re going to harvest. Give your plants only water during this time. For my last watering I "flush" 1 more time till I get clear run off. Then when the soil dries out and it’s about ready for water again I harvest. Using a flushing agent like clearex in the first flush works beautifully.

Please remember that consuming plants by eating is very different from smoking them. And that some of your usual gardening tips and methods for vegetables, and decorative flowers simply can not apply.

This method cannot be beat and consistently produces excellent results.

Nice post.

I agree with most of what you said, however I don't flush and my buds don't taste like dirt or fertilizer or anything except wonderful dankness. The smoke is clean and the high outstanding from the moment they finish drying, and it only gets better when they've cured.

I guess I fail to understand how starving a plant will make it produce more smokeable material than if you continue to feed it throughout senescence. "Survival" just doesn't make sense, because wouldn't a plant in survival mode want to conserve energy at all costs, prolonging its life and the chance for pollen to come along? If it spends all its energy in a "last push" won't it in reality die more quickly because it has used all its spent reserves in a relatively short period of time? And if it does collect pollen while in survival mode it won't have enough energy to manufacture a viable seed by the time it dies, right?

I'm no student of biology, so I don't know if any of that is actually what happens. It just seems counter-intuitive for a plant to push out more calyxes and trichomes as a direct result of being starved than if it had continued to receive the basic nutrients it needs to grow.

As far as the surplus food being stored as an insoluble starch, won't it just get broken down during the cure? And even if it doesn't, is that starch really what makes the smoke taste bad, which is the whole reason for a flush? Why don't my buds taste bad when they haven't been flushed at all?

Also, if plants only take up as much nutrients as they need, how do they get "burned" when too much fertilizer is applied?

From my personal experience both flushing and not flushing, I have found there to be no real discernible difference in the final taste. And I'm not sure if there is a difference in yield or potency...I would need to do a more controlled side by side experiment.

Jerry Garcia said:

From my personal experience both flushing and not flushing, I have found there to be no real discernible difference in the final taste. And I'm not sure if there is a difference in yield or potency...I would need to do a more controlled side by side experiment.

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i agree bud, a side by side experiment needs done

kuntjoose said:

1. You get to taste the buds not the dirt or anything that may be in the dirt. Or even anything the plant may have been holding on to. This creates a smoother more clean smoking product.

2. Starving the plant makes it pump into overdrive as a survival tactic. Layering on the calyxes and frost in a last ditch effort to stay alive and have a chance to reproduce. At this point I would like to point out that I have never seen a healthy well grown pot plant “stunt” or pitter out because it is being starved near the end of its life.

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1. a. If plants took in dirt, corn and other food should taste like dirt.
b. Plants don't store high amounts of mobile nutrients in the flowers. So,
if there were to be excess nutrients stored, they wouldn't be stored
in the buds.
c. Drying and curing get rid of the nasty tastes and give a smooth
smoke.

2. a. Increased trichome production could be argued to be a response to
herbivory, increased UV rays (sunlight), temperature fluctuation,
and/or drought...not nutrient deprivation.
b. Cannabis' last ditch effort to stay alive and reproduce is herm'ing out
and then self-fertilizing. Thus, being able to propagate the species
even if all the other plants are dead.

A good dry and cure makes a good smoke. Heck, even then some plants just stink anyway.

I can see no benefit or purpose to flushing a 'living' organic soil.

Flushing seems to be the new 'cure de jour' and if it makes you feel better and improves your sleep at night, go for it.

Chemicals, ok. Organics? Why would you spend the effort and time to create a living soil just to try and flush it away?

Wet

Wetdog said:

I can see no benefit or purpose to flushing a 'living' organic soil.

Flushing seems to be the new 'cure de jour' and if it makes you feel better and improves your sleep at night, go for it.

Chemicals, ok. Organics? Why would you spend the effort and time to create a living soil just to try and flush it away?

Wet

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Well said, Wetdog. There is absolutely no need to flush organics. I think that most people who go from hydro or chemical nutes to organics just do it by habit, without thinking of why it is even necassary.

I have a question as to whether I am wasting my time and Flora Kleen with my current flushing technique. Prior to using Flora Kleen, I usually try to water 3x with either straight water or molasses. Is this good enough or should I be flushing longer? Perhaps, I should use Flora Kleen as the initial flush and then feed water/molasses until harvest.

And let's say that I feed my plants nutrients up until harvest and then flush with Flora Kleen one time and when the soil dries out, harvest. Would this be non-effective? Thanks in advance and for the information.

I use FF soil with the entire line of FF nutrients + solubles and Botanicare Cal-Mag

Isn't the whole point of flushing to remove the toxicity from the soil that can do damage to the plants, I.E Chemicals... which would make sense for needing a flush for non-organics and hydro. But Organically, I cant see the toxicity levels reaching high levels, unless the soil is over watered, and there is time for the organic materials to form into bad bacteria mold, etc... that might then become harmful for the plant.

below0 said:

Isn't the whole point of flushing to remove the toxicity from the soil that can do damage to the plants, I.E Chemicals... which would make sense for needing a flush for non-organics and hydro. But Organically, I cant see the toxicity levels reaching high levels, unless the soil is over watered, and there is time for the organic materials to form into bad bacteria mold, etc... that might then become harmful for the plant.

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If your soil was over-ferted to the point of toxicity, I doubt you would even make it to harvest. These chemicals you talk about are the same thing that organic nutes are broken down into, so there really isnt much difference between the two. Synthetic nutes are easier to over-do, but a person can also over-do organic nutes as well and cause alot of harm.

DaveCoulier said:

If your soil was over-ferted to the point of toxicity, I doubt you would even make it to harvest. These chemicals you talk about are the same thing that organic nutes are broken down into, so there really isnt much difference between the two. Synthetic nutes are easier to over-do, but a person can also over-do organic nutes as well and cause alot of harm.

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So a concentrated Chemical nute vs a Concentrated natural nute vs Natural nute there is no difference in the level of toxicity they would create in the soil?

Ok here is my two cents
i think hydro nutes are easyer to flush. I think you only need to flush if you over did it or feed at a highstrenght Or if you use ganular fertilizer.
Salt build up occur when you constantly feed your plants without waterings in between.
I think organic is on the safe side considering you feed every other watering.
I think if you avoid nitrogen for the past two weeks you will be fine.
If you dont have a run off, salt build up might be your problem. I think 5-10 days/two or three waterings with pure water will be fine.
The ganular fert is hard to leach out of the soil.
I have done hydro/organics in soil beds and my stuff burnd white. I also waterd the last week or growth. It will not starve them.
There is no point of doing pure organics and then using a clearing solution. Just plain water or RO water.
Maybe its your hard water?? Maybe thats what is making your weed burn bad? The chemicals in your water is organic?? you must use pure H20 for it to be organic. Otherwise Reverse Oasmosis.

below0 said:

So a concentrated Chemical nute vs a Concentrated natural nute vs Natural nute there is no difference in the level of toxicity they would create in the soil?

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Im pretty sure I answered your question with my original reply. Any type of fertilizer, whether it be natural or synthetic, can form a toxic environment for your plants if used in excess. Synthetic nutes are quicker to reach that threshold. The key is to learning how much your plant needs and not go beyond that point regardless of which type of fertilizer you are using. I hope that helps.

DaveCoulier said:

Im pretty sure I answered your question with my original reply. Any type of fertilizer, whether it be natural or synthetic, can form a toxic environment for your plants if used in excess. Synthetic nutes are quicker to reach that threshold. The key is to learning how much your plant needs and not go beyond that point regardless of which type of fertilizer you are using. I hope that helps.

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Fair enough I haven't given my plants any real dosage of nutes yet other then the osmocotes I put in the soil before planting.. Iam trying to figure out myself what direction to go Organic or Chemical, for flowering. But from the sounds of it, it might be a little hard to do catch up with the organics since from what I understand it takes a little bit of time for it to formulate an environment, for flowering. And since osmocote is chemical anyways.. might aswell stick to chemical I guess.

Maybe next time I will go organic, seems like much more fun formulating your own nutrient mixes

LOL You start dumping nutes on top of that Osmocote, you will be finding out about toxicity real quick.

Osmocote in the soil=losing any control over the nutes that you may of had.

Wet

You got that right Wet.

Wetdog said:

LOL You start dumping nutes on top of that Osmocote, you will be finding out about toxicity real quick.

Osmocote in the soil=losing any control over the nutes that you may of had.

Wet

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I said for flowering, osmocote is a little low on the P so I was going to add some nutes into the soil with higher P, I dont think its going to affect it too much.

And I only put about 1/3 of the recommended into the soil for the osmocotes.

heres a question, how do you know when your plant is fully flushed? ive fed mine nothing but water for close to 2 weeks and a few have yellowing lower leaves while the others have none.

So much for the end to all of the organic flushing questions.....

I've only grown 100% organic my last several grows but after a good dry and cure I don't taste anything but good smoke. I don't flush but I do allow about 20% runoff with every watering and feed nothing but molasses the last two weeks. IMHO the good taste comes from a good cure.

MrBaker said:

1. a. If plants took in dirt, corn and other food should taste like dirt.
b. Plants don't store high amounts of mobile nutrients in the flowers. So,
if there were to be excess nutrients stored, they wouldn't be stored
in the buds.
c. Drying and curing get rid of the nasty tastes and give a smooth
smoke.

2. a. Increased trichome production could be argued to be a response to
herbivory, increased UV rays (sunlight), temperature fluctuation,
and/or drought...not nutrient deprivation.
b. Cannabis' last ditch effort to stay alive and reproduce is herm'ing out
and then self-fertilizing. Thus, being able to propagate the species
even if all the other plants are dead.

A good dry and cure makes a good smoke. Heck, even then some plants just stink anyway.

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If a flush is not done , then you harvest , hang upside down. You mentioned that there is only a small amount of nutes in the flower so when hung upside down when drying , will the nutes in the plant drain down into the flower ?