The false left/right paradigm

phyer said:

My overall point was that this country is headed for economic depression and the differences between the two candidates will be irrelevent in the grand scheme of things after that beings to happen.

But since you ignored that point I guess we can talk about the lesser of two evils.



Bush was voted in. Obama is just as bad if not worse than bush though so I don't really understand what your getting at? They both corroded civil liberties,maintained nearly the same monetary/foreign policies and helped the rich get richer....

Bush signed the patriot act/Obama signed the NDAA.
Bush tortured suspected terrorists/Obama assassinated a 16 year old U.S. civilian without trial.
Bush started a foreign war in Iraq with no justification/Obama escalated that war and by abusing
the executive order, spread it to Pakistan killing thousands of innocent citizens.
Bush signed the tax cuts/ Obama kept them going while giving billions in bailouts to the major banks.
Bush hired Ben Bernanke as chairman of the Federal Reserve/Obama rehired him resulting in
14 trillion dollars being given to to the major banks(not just US).

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That sums up the point of this thread nicely. Left and Right doesn't matter anymore when each party is on the wrong side of the biggest problems in the country. Crony capitalism (propping up the banks, allowing the fed to be completely unaccountable) and authoritarianism

bedspirit said:

That sums up the point of this thread nicely. Left and Right doesn't matter anymore when each party is on the wrong side of the biggest problems in the country. Crony capitalism (propping up the banks, allowing the fed to be completely unaccountable) and authoritarianism

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Left and right never did matter, it was always a crock of shit. The institution itself is flawed.

[video=youtube;XAZ-t67-q5A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XAZ-t67-q5A[/video]

ChesusRice said:

The horror story is
401ks
401ks were never designed to retire on. They were designed as ways of getting extra tax free income to company executives who were mostly in there 50s as a perk

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that is.... unless you have a 401K with $100,000,000 in it like Romney does.

bedspirit said:

That sums up the point of this thread nicely. Left and Right doesn't matter anymore when each party is on the wrong side of the biggest problems in the country. Crony capitalism (propping up the banks, allowing the fed to be completely unaccountable) and authoritarianism

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You all are missing it. We can't much see the attitudes of the presidents in action, the actions of congress and exegencies of the office obscure presidential activities and make it hard to see the differences.


However, if you want to see them in their unrefined and most concentrated states, look to SCOTUS. There you will see not only the ideologies played out but the results of those ideologies on the culture of this country.

I set out to show that both sides had similar views on most things. I'd like to take it a step further and say that they're nearly identical. Behind on close doors they actually agree on more than they would have us believe. Unfortunately, compiling evidence of this is a daunting task.

But take Paul Ryan and Barack Obama. They're presented to us as polar opposites. On national security (patriot act, NDAA, TSA) and Foreign Policy they're identical. How about on economics? Wikileaks released some emails and memos on Ryan http://www.salon.com/2012/08/13/wikileaks_paul_ryan_exposure/ that show that in private he actually favors the gov't and fed injecting liquidity into the system. He specifically points to the importance of QE1 and QE2 to prevent deflation although in public he claims it will cause inflation. This position is shared by Obama. How about the Stimulus. This was meant to inject liquidity into the system, so does he really approve of that? According to these letters he wrote, he does: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/presented-with-letters-ryan-admits-requesting-stimulus-cash/

Unfortunately i can't connect the dots on every level. I suspect much is hidden behind closed doors. Now that political season is in full swing and supporters from each side spend time ripping each other new assholes, I suggest you consider for a moment that you're each arguing for the same thing just spun a little differently.

bedspirit said:

I set out to show that both sides had similar views on most things. I'd like to take it a step further and say that they're nearly identical. Behind on close doors they actually agree on more than they would have us believe. Unfortunately, compiling evidence of this is a daunting task.

But take Paul Ryan and Barack Obama. They're presented to us as polar opposites. On national security (patriot act, NDAA, TSA) and Foreign Policy they're identical. How about on economics? Wikileaks released some emails and memos on Ryan http://www.salon.com/2012/08/13/wikileaks_paul_ryan_exposure/ that show that in private he actually favors the gov't and fed injecting liquidity into the system. He specifically points to the importance of QE1 and QE2 to prevent deflation although in public he claims it will cause inflation. This position is shared by Obama. How about the Stimulus. This was meant to inject liquidity into the system, so does he really approve of that? According to these letters he wrote, he does: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/presented-with-letters-ryan-admits-requesting-stimulus-cash/

Unfortunately i can't connect the dots on every level. I suspect much is hidden behind closed doors. Now that political season is in full swing and supporters from each side spend time ripping each other new assholes, I suggest you consider for a moment that you're each arguing for the same thing just spun a little differently.

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As I've said before, the proof is in SCOTUS selection. We know what Obama sees as a proper justice - slight left of center. We know what Romney's selections might be. We will likely lose Ginsberg and Kennedy. It is essential that they are not replaced with hard right ideologs. There is a difference between candidates.

canndo said:

However, if you want to see them in their unrefined and most concentrated states, look to SCOTUS. There you will see not only the ideologies played out but the results of those ideologies on the culture of this country.

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[video=youtube_share;BFqHyCoypfM]http://youtu.be/BFqHyCoypfM[/video]

canndo said:

As I've said before, the proof is in SCOTUS selection. We know what Obama sees as a proper justice - slight left of center. We know what Romney's selections might be. We will likely lose Ginsberg and Kennedy. It is essential that they are not replaced with hard right ideologs. There is a difference between candidates.

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You mean like Bush's nominee, Roberts?

And the similarities between Ryan and Obama just keep on coming. Anybody see this old footage that MSNBC dug up?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/19/paul-ryan-bush-stimulus_n_1803761.html

The wikileaks revelation was one thing, the old letters requesting stimulus was another, but this speech he gave on the floor of the house defending the Stimulus that Bush wanted back in 2002 could have been written by Obama.

I remember when Ryan first showed up on my radar back in 2010. Even then he was described as a Ayn Rand loving small gov't libertarian. That shit had to have been made up. Surely, his handlers must have carefully crafted this image of him in preparation for this day, because this is simply not him. He argues for whatever his party tells him to argue for. He can argue for stimulus, he can argue against stimulus.

Bottom line, Republicans and Democrats are the same.

Vote Gary Johnson, motherfucker.

if ventura backs him, ill join this ride. gary johnson. im on the bandwagon.

dtp5150 said:

if ventura backs him, ill join this ride. gary johnson. im on the bandwagon.

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Hell yeah. Ventura is the man.

I hope they actually release the new season of Conspiracy. They were done shooting it 8 months ago, yet haven't aired an episode yet. I think they need to shoot one more episode about the conspiracy to keep the show off the air.

bedspirit said:

Hell yeah. Ventura is the man.

I hope they actually release the new season of Conspiracy. They were done shooting it 8 months ago, yet haven't aired an episode yet. I think they need to shoot one more episode about the conspiracy to keep the show off the air.

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thats not scary enough lol...unless they can turn that into mass democide somehow I don't see it happening. Love J Ventura thou

dtp5150 said:

if ventura backs him, ill join this ride. gary johnson. im on the bandwagon.

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Yeah, that video didn't really catch my attention until the Ventura endorsement. Seeing that has instantly increased my interest in Johnson. Hey, endorsements do work.