The flush "myth"

So being kind of a noobie here i usually tend to skim through threads from time to time trying to get ideas and snippets of information. One that I have seen pop up multiple times is that flushing is a myth and its about money for nut companies and ect. Now. I pray this doesnt turn into a debate. But i ask why this is a myth or at least believed to be. I ask that people dont come in here bashing about FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH because i am currently one of those guys. I flush gallons of ph balanced water with no cleaning agents only. So my question now is, could someone cite some sources of facts for me or link a previous thread that already does so? Please, FACTS not oppinions or bashing for doing it or not. Im simply trying to educate myself, I actually just had someone tell me to crop my plant and throw it in a bowl of water for 24 hours and thats how thwy flush it. Sounds pretty off the wall but like I said, I dont know so I am trying to educate myself.

ANOTHER ONE!!

If you skim through threads then you'd see there's so much info on both sides of flushing ,,,so starting this thread would be like giving Donald trump nuclear weapons ......oh wait ,,,carry on.


@UncleBuck ...I did a political thing

the fact is that flushing is not done in the agriculture community should tell you it's a hippy myth

the tobacco industry have spent millions of dollars on scientifically controlled experiments to produce the best products they can, but yet they do not flush

are there any facts to prove flushing is a worthwhile process?

Educate yourself by growing two of the same clones from start to finish, then flush one of them and don't flush the other. I didn't think there was a debate on whether or not to flush, but rather to use flushing agents or not, as well as to pH the water or not. Trial and error has led me, personally, to flushing with non-pHed water. However, not flushing at all results in a less preferable smoke in my opinion. I apologize for not citing any facts which is basically all you asked.

ISK said:

the fact is that flushing is not done in the agriculture community should tell you it's a hippy myth

the tobacco industry have spent millions of dollars on scientifically controlled experiments to produce the best products they can, but yet they do not flush

are there any facts to prove flushing is a worthwhile process?

Click to expand...

Good point ......I experimented with the whole flushing thing .....but I've noticed some people who say they flush ,,,don't understand what flushing actually is ......I've seen people argue on here for 20 minutes only to realize ,,,,the person who was voting yay for flushing was giving just water at the end of flower and letting a little run off come out of the pot like normal ....lol ....but OP obviously realizes flushing is putting absurd amounts of water through the plant ....which IMO only kills baby rhinos in Africa .......poor baby rhinos ...


Further more I've never had a patient ask/tell me I didn't flush ....to each there own ....I flush after I take a shit ......sometimes

Samsonator said:

Educate yourself by growing two of the same clones from start to finish, then flush one of them and don't flush the other. I didn't think there was a debate on whether or not to flush, but rather to use flushing agents or not, as well as to pH the water or not. Trial and error has led me, personally, to flushing with non-pHed water. However, not flushing at all results in garbage in my opinion. I apologize for not citing any facts which is basically all you asked.

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for clarity please describe your "flush" procedure ?

Hard to come up with scientific studies with an outlawed plant. Get a few years growing under your belt and make your own decision.

The tobacco industry doesn't grow in 5 gallon or smaller pots. Dirt growers do.

Also, any outdoor plant by definition is flushed every time it rains.

I'm neither a proponent nor a trasher. I've noticed the most aggressive anti's are the no till, super organic crowd, and for their style of growing I can kind of see it.

I'm a small pot dirt farmer. I try to keep my ppm's as low as possible and feed a deficiency rather than flush overfeeding. I also don't feed every time I water. So I don't flush. But, I have nothing against the practice.

ISK said:

the fact is that flushing is not done in the agriculture community should tell you it's a hippy myth

the tobacco industry have spent millions of dollars on scientifically controlled experiments to produce the best products they can, but yet they do not flush

are there any facts to prove flushing is a worthwhile process?

Click to expand...

you are right sir, but......have you a clue the shit they put the post harvest through and the time it takes just to make it the way it is when you get it? its becuase they fertilize to the day of harvest, for the green leafy material, sold by the pound. not for delicate flowers. so now....you'll understand why some dont flush, and do feed to the near end, then need to "cure" for long periods just like big tobacco, just to make it taste "awesome"

veggie fields around here are fertilized a few times when planted, then not at all as it finishes.
my apple tree leaves show deficiencies too, at the end of the season, when resources are diminished, like insect frass, light,
bird shit, fungi, decomposition, etc. I love it that way, even try to do the same indoors successfully

Nutrient toxicity= I put the plant under the tap (well water, tested) and run it through my coir for quite a while (5-7 gallons maybe?), then when I am satisfied with the runoff I give the plant a corrected nutrient mixture (not 100% strength, but not far off either)

End of cycle flushing: I feed my plants straight water for the last 3-4 waterings. If I had city water then I'd probably feed them straight water from a more reliable source.

I am not arguing this is the best method, it's just what I do.

I have read that plants and organisms will take up a certain amount of salt if forced, some more than others, like sea variants. This occurs over the life of the plant and will likely be accelerated by constant wet/dry cycles (my theory) as dry cycle is when salt forms. Unless flushing reverses that effect, something I've never read into.. then it would suggest soil grown synthetic fed plants are going to contain more salt or impurity's than a coco or hydro system that does not appear to allow much salt to form if watered correctly and kept wet. I also read a study that some organisms would take up chlorine or some of it's side products and that can also be taken up by the plant (not sure if good or bad). As much as I've read on roots, they put out sugar and signals to organisms telling them what the plant is deficient in, along with having effect on ph range. I've never read something about them dumping out build ups of toxins or salts, but maybe they can do that so do share that info if you have it.

One could quickly speculate that if plants had the ability to remove toxins through the medium they would seldom suffer nutrient toxicity. As most deficiency or toxicity's seem to express themselves exclusively in the leaves or stem it would also suggest the plant tries to protect the buds and only filter to them the required elements to produce them, should they have those available. If you were to keep the plant happy no toxicity's would exist. If green leaves and too much N effects flavor then you would only have to feed the normal water volume with 0 to 1/3 nutrients to allow those bud leaves to begin fading. I don't think the plant cares about taste, likely why it will still use N to survive near the end, potentially adding weight at the cost of subjective taste?.

Another thing to consider is the grow/herb on which such opinions are predicated.

M7 (Animal Cookies bagseed, ACxBubba, AC dominant)





M3 (AC bagseed, ACxUrkle)




Gelato 33




Gelato after chop (different run)





GSC (Thin Mint)



GSC, or M6 (forgot which)




GSC




M10 (AC bagseed, same cross as M7, nearly identical)




GG4




OG (one of my two "original" cuts from the 90's, don't know their "moniker", Ghost, TK, whatever)




"Mystery" (cut given on accident, lineage unknown, sweet Crem Brûlée with blueberries, super potent/psychedelic)





Seed run of M4 (very special girl, more Animal Cookies bagseed)





What do these all have in common? Well, first of all, they were grown by yours truly. Second, I do not flush. Interestingly enough, my plants do not "suck ass", as some have asserted in this thread that "no flush" would. Not only are they "pretty", but they can be smoked as soon as they are dry (~7-10 days after chop), and are as smooth as King Crab in butter.

Yeah, but "what do I know", I'm just a wing nut that's been doing this for too long.




Where is @Dr. Who ? He might have an opinion on this also.

It's a giant waste of good water is what it is

If you need to flush your plants for the last week or two then you probably over fertilized your plants while growing. I used to do the end of cycle flush because High times, Ed and Jorge suggested it was normal practice but have since lowered the concentration of fertilizer, rarely ever above 700 ppm range even in heavy flower. Right now I'm 3 weeks in flower and only feeding 350 ppm and plants are green and happy.

This is what less ppms can do.

Thanks to everyone that responded with their own personal insight and stuff theyve learned. Im at the 1 year mark and ive "learned" all these practices from here or there and so far its all turning out well. But now I am getting to the point where im like a 5 year old and every time I do something I ask "But why?" Then I come on here and see the debates of well known members about i do or dont flush. So my mind of course said, "I will probably regret this... But why?" Lol. @Flowki I wish I could like your post multiple times because that is very insightful.

Odin* said:

Another thing to consider is the grow/herb on which such opinions are predicated.

M7 (Animal Cookies bagseed, ACxBubba, AC dominant)

M3 (AC bagseed, ACxUrkle)

Gelato 33

Gelato after chop (different run)

GSC (Thin Mint)

GSC, or M6 (forgot which)

GSC

M10 (AC bagseed, same cross as M7, nearly identical)

GG4

OG (one of my two "original" cuts from the 90's, don't know their "moniker", Ghost, TK, whatever)

"Mystery" (cut given on accident, lineage unknown, sweet Crem Brûlée with blueberries, super potent/psychedelic)

Seed run of M4 (very special girl, more Animal Cookies bagseed)

What do these all have in common? Well, first of all, they were grown by yours truly. Second, I do not flush. Interestingly enough, my plants do not "suck ass", as some have asserted in this thread that "no flush" would. Not only are they "pretty", but they can be smoked as soon as they are dry (~7-10 days after chop), and are as smooth as King Crab in butter.

Yeah, but "what do I know", I'm just a wing nut that's been doing this for too long.




Where is @Dr. Who ? He might have an opinion on this also.

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nice plants!

question is though, what do you pour into your dirt on the last three waterings?
I do the same likely, because mine are stellar right out of the drying tent, no "cure" necessary here.
If I pour fert teas to the end of harvest my plants dont taste as good right out of the drying tent.

@chemphlegm My "finishing" blend.

DirtyD313 said:

Thanks to everyone that responded with their own personal insight and stuff theyve learned. Im at the 1 year mark and ive "learned" all these practices from here or there and so far its all turning out well. But now I am getting to the point where im like a 5 year old and every time I do something I ask "But why?" Then I come on here and see the debates of well known members about i do or dont flush. So my mind of course said, "I will probably regret this... But why?" Lol. @Flowki I wish I could like your post multiple times because that is very insightful.

Click to expand...

Oh don't jump to conclusions just yet, If the topic was the swimming pool I'm still on the diving board, didn't do well at school ;[.

For example trying to learn about salt build ups was a pure mind fuck. The amount of reactions, various salt/chemical definitions and how they can be broken apart in water then form once dry completely lost me in all truth. All I really came away with is that chlorine in one form or other is in tap water and it's one possible component. That can be removed by gassing off (unless chloramine) but then tap water also contains chloride and sodium anyway. So I ran with the uneducated conclusion that one should grow organically with as natural water as possible or go with coco/hydro to limit the ability of salt (chemical too) to form due to cutting out dry cycles. But that does not necessarily cut out the harm such chemicals may inflict on their own.

Anybody who is actually educated ^^, am I right in thinking that the plant in fighting toxicity's can uptake and store components that make salt and then if the medium drys and the plants wilt, salt could potentially form inside the plant?. I get the feeling that's a really dumb question.

chemphlegm said:

you are right sir, but......have you a clue the shit they put the post harvest through and the time it takes just to make it the way it is when you get it? its becuase they fertilize to the day of harvest, for the green leafy material, sold by the pound. not for delicate flowers. so now....you'll understand why some dont flush, and do feed to the near end, then need to "cure" for long periods just like big tobacco, just to make it taste "awesome"

veggie fields around here are fertilized a few times when planted, then not at all as it finishes.
my apple tree leaves show deficiencies too, at the end of the season, when resources are diminished, like insect frass, light,
bird shit, fungi, decomposition, etc. I love it that way, even try to do the same indoors successfully

Click to expand...

So you say big tobacco fertilizes until the end? Then it has to cure to taste good? Are you implying that tobacco finished with a flush would smoke great with no cure? I find that hard to believe. Have you tried this?

thenotsoesoteric said:

If you need to flush your plants for the last week or two then you probably over fertilized your plants while growing. I used to do the end of cycle flush because High times, Ed and Jorge suggested it was normal practice but have since lowered the concentration of fertilizer, rarely ever above 700 ppm range even in heavy flower. Right now I'm 3 weeks in flower and only feeding 350 ppm and plants are green and happy.

This is what less ppms can do.View attachment 3907835

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That bud your holding in the pic needs to be flushed ..ASAP...looks strange ....