The last thing we need as the people is for the government to be "Compromising"

deprave

deprave

New Member
We hear this over and over from the dirty scum politicians on all sides of the isle. Each election year its "I am uniter and not a divider" - "We need to come togather on both sides of the Isle" Yada Yada Yada...


I am here to tell you my friend that The last thing we need as the people is for the government to be "Compromising". (Working together to railroad the people more like it)


It is no secret, for tens of thousands of years government and corporations have been the scourge of mankind. The evil entity spawned by us in good faith to do what is right by the people. A well intended plan but when will we ever realize that this simply cannot be. We as the people must do right by ourselves and without some make believe entity, it cannot and will not have our interests in mind simply because it is not human.

The last thing that we need is this corrupt blood sucking entity working together to railroad us in the name of its own perpetuation of power. This entity only exists to preserve its own existence and it does this by feeding on humanity like some kind of parasite. So you think government should and can work eh? You disagree with thousands of generations? You think that we are some exception to this simple law that's held up for all of written history?





Statism is dead - Part 3 - The Matrix
[video=youtube;P772Eb63qIY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P772Eb63qIY&list=UUC3L8QaxqEGUiBC252GHy3w& feature=plcp[/video]


It is important to understand the realities of ideologies. State Capitalism, Socialism, Communism, Fascism, Democracy; These are all livestock management approaches. They all fail eventually because treating Humans as cattle is simply immoral and irrational.
These ideologies are NOT based on a philosophy, nor does it originate from historical evidence or rational principles, is a false justication for human ownership, an exscuse for violence.


Today I was visited by a Mr Smith from the IRS to pay my "dues"...Hmm sound familiar?




Philosphy and "The Matrix"

It is funny how real a science fiction movie could be. Day after day I am reminded how we are trapped in the real life version of "The Matrix". The movie has deep philosophical meaning but to those who are stuck in the real life matrix, blue pill takers, the ones who believe what they want to believe, to those people it is just another science fiction movie.

"What is "real"? How do you define "real"?"

"This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill -- the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill -- you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."

"I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it."

"Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream, Neo? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? "

"The Matrix is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth."

"What you know you can't explain, but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life, that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad."

"Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself."


"The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it."

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path."
 
Mr Neutron

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
Braveheart: (about compromise) Princess:"peace is made in such ways" Wallace:"slaves are made in such ways"
 
ChronicObsession

ChronicObsession

Well-Known Member
Deprave, I never did trust the government since my first persecution for smoking 1 ciggarette of marijuana that had already been extinguished and hidden in the appropriate place in my car, the ashtray. The Agents from the Matrix are exactly what government workers become after a few years of being on the job. Their minds become taken over by the souless machine and their bodies are just empty husks of their former selves.
 
deprave

deprave

New Member
ChronicObsession said:
Deprave, I never did trust the government since my first persecution for smoking 1 ciggarette of marijuana that had already been extinguished and hidden in the appropriate place in my car, the ashtray. The Agents from the Matrix are exactly what government workers become after a few years of being on the job. Their minds become taken over by the souless machine and their bodies are just empty husks of their former selves.
Click to expand...
Humored by the fact that my tax agents name was Mr. Smith I decided to give him a test. A test to see if he has a soul or if he is the husk you describe.





I asked Mr Smith, "Mr. Smith have you seen the matrix? Do you realize that your name is Mr Smith and your a government agent." at which Mr Smith responded "Will you be making your payment full?". Aha! just as I thought, Mr Smith was indeed some kind of robot, a husk of his former self. I pressed further, "Mr Smith. Are you a real person?". Mr smith hesitated and then said "Sir, do you want to processes your payment now?"..I know better than to give a machine a hard time as a computer programmer so I simply gave him the appropriate instructions to continue processing my payment.
 
ThatGuy113

ThatGuy113

Well-Known Member
Failure to understand the issues that arise from implementing a blanket system that depends on members of society to be politically active and stay educated about politics does not mean that there is complete proof that government is totally wrong. In the beginning the system worked well. Land Owning white males ( a small select group) were the only ones allowed to achieve change through government. As the country spread so did interests and the unity of politics diminished within those small voting groups. The inability of the average citizen today to comprehend what even is being played on the 10 o clock news is appalling. People dont care because they dont see the chain reaction that they set off that eventually affects them on the federal level when they dicked around with who they voted for even on a local level. Those local elections determine voting districts which can in turn affect presidential elections. Just like what there doing in the southwest with the voter laws. Its not just about stopping people from voting now. Its about changing the district lines in the future so that minority groups in the area will get split between a few districts and they will lose their voice. Its squarely on the people not the system. The pure fact 9/10 people the average person runs into in a day couldnt even tell you who Woodrow Wilson was is proof. The uninterest that people show in history is the main reason we are not moving forward and we are running side by side with mistakes of the past.
I think the real issue is the dumbing down of society due to the rise in technology and increase in sources of information. I do believe in 10-15 years the internet will be nothing like what we see today. It will once again become just a tool instead of our non stop fixation. We've pinned all human advancement on technology. If it furthers any other aspect of our growth and development as a species will stop. The life cycle has doubled in the past 100-150 years, cutting changes in the species from cycle to cycle over time in half. Crazy. I think we will eventually get our relationship with technology figured out. Im all for living as long as possible. Im not anti-technology, I just wished it was utilized more efficiently for knowledge and not just hash tags. I think it has increased in the behavior of judging very deep concepts or stories on basic no nothing face value. A lot of people hear something they've never heard of before and they just decide to ignore it cause based on 5 seconds of thought it is unimportant. The Average voter terrifies me.

It could be because we dont have a drive as a nation any more. There isnt any more of the continent to claim, No Commies and no other focal point. The achievement of collective security has helped very much in that. People say there disgruntled with the government and arent going to vote because they turned on a cable news channel for 5 minutes and had no idea what the hell the people on TV were talking about. Then goes on to make political decisions based on here say from there friends that probably heard it from someone else. Those friends are usually only saying something about politics in the first place because its most likely about some niche policy that directly affects you and your group of friends. Any other time of the year nothing is ever mentioned about politics.

" Democracy cannot function without the people, especially if the people are ignorant, ill-
informed, or only care about their own interests. Building an effective democracy takes time, the
people must be educated to make effective and well-informed decisions." - Winston Churchill



Ok, Im done bitching about the average person.
 
deprave

deprave

New Member
Democracy is like all of the rest. A form of human ownership that cannot succeed because it is irrational and immoral, not because people are too dumb. In fact Democracy thrives when people are dumb enough to believe that they aren't cattle and that they are free, that government is a power for good.

Democracy and Capitalism is the mafia system. You think your free but then you get the Mr Smiths knocking at your door to collect "dues" and "protection fees"...."Licenses"....Its the best kind of human ownership because your livestock think they are free they produce more because they are happy.


 
ThatGuy113

ThatGuy113

Well-Known Member
and the positives of your alternative of course outweigh the positives of the current system?

and let alone the fact that you do have the ability to change things but its only when people actually know what the hell is going on. Thats why democracy is such a slow moving entity.

What realistic change could actually be made in the system of how people are governed and live ?. Short of the Apocalypse. The fact is your so convinced that the whole world is a conspiracy just plays into the fact that means its to late for change. We dont win in that scenario. Im sure you would of vanished by now like it was Stalinist Russia.

The alternative being no government at all. This would hinder the ability of civilization to function as a community which in turn hinders development and progress for all of us.
 
Farfenugen

Farfenugen

Well-Known Member
Well, we sure are damned if we do and hell for sure as damned if we don't. So, if there is to be a revolsolution there will undoubtedly have to be a leader or leader(s) to make sure the movement is rolling along smoothly. Look at the debacle that was the occupy movement; no leader or clear set agenda. Just wasted time and nonsense passed along by anarchists, public shitters, paranoid so called encampment dictators and the media who pandered to make something out of nothing. And yet, we really have no idea what everything was all about. And the idea of having a leader is so that the rest of the masses who have joined the revolt have a clear objective - that is to remove the current system and create a new one. But herein lies the problem, you're only going to replace one hierarchy with another. Absolute power corrupts absolutely - right?

So, does this mean that we're all going to be prancing about like naked hippies in the forests, picking grubs and berries and breast feeding within feet of tigers and bears. Utopia? I doubt it. The idea (or ideology) of freedom isn't real to begin with. There's always going to be some sort of trade-off in order to manage a societal system. Social order preventing chaos. Who will manage that system? What are the rules? In a village, there is always going to be a need for protection from outside intruders, rustlers, thieves and other villages taking them over. Basically, in today's world, we live in a very large village, albeit states.

The system we live in today, may not be just, but at the present moment it's the best we have. And yes, the elite may hold most of the strings, but if the shit ever did hit the fan, I can guarantee you that there will be a lot of reprisals going on, and this, above all else, is what they fear more than anything. So they invent fears to keep us suppressed and calm. Some fears, however, are real, such as earthquakes, polar ice melts, the possibility of the magnetic poles shifting, or this so called alignment of the galaxy. Perhaps this is why we hear such things as underground bases. Maybe they know something we don't and are going to hide out underground like rats while the rest of us fend for ourselves top side. Anarchy, chaos and strife. But I doubt this is what's going to happen, it's just too big of a pill to swallow. Conspiracy and selling fear will only do one thing and that's make the populace paranoid even further. Fear. And it won't be ours but theirs. All this stuff is on the internet, readily available. What worse way is there than to have the citizenry informed of such an impending calamity? This in a nut shell is the catalyst for revolt. And yet, all we have are sketchy youtube videos, fear marketing by radio celebrities who sell this fear and a lot of conspiratorial rhetoric that seems at best, a bunch of silly nonsense, most of which has been debunked. But they'll not tell you because telling the truth as it happens, doesn't sell very many books or subscriptions or endorsements on late night alternative radio shows.

The world in which we live in is flawed, so much so that because of the internet and all this information floating out there, it's hard to make sense of what's real and what's bull shit. Nibiru? Some grand galactic alignment, that seems to fit somewhere between a science fiction story and an episode of Star Trek. Aliens again, always with these fucking pre-pubescent larvae beings that have an affectation for bovine delicacies and probing the asses of mid-western farm hands. Or the whole reptile/secret society/inbred thing. Pick a bad guy for once! And be done with it already. All these scenarios seem to be happening at once. It's beyond laughable. Is this what we're rallying against? The world is a shitty place but it's also the only place to be, otherwise all we have is the cold vacuum of space, and that's going to be a tough place to find a McDonald's at 2AM after a night at the bar.

Okay, say this is all true - well most of it, sans the butt-probing aliens and the whole religious thing. If the literal shit did hit the fan, who would aide us? What would you do? Would you gather up your friends and neighbours, form a safety group? Would you mass arms and begin guarding the supermarkets, the hospitals, the jails? Who would you trust? Your wife? Your congressman (who'd be so far underground by that time, that most of his calls would go unanswered). Or would you form a collective, make placards, protest the Capitol, save your grass clippings for tea and demand your last years tax payments?

Revolutions rarely never end well, nor do they begin easy. The middle parts are filled with anarchy and chaos, so it's basically a free-for-all then. And by that time, the planes would be dropping leaflets telling us all is calm, trust your leaders, please form an orderly line at your nearest gas chamber and try not to scream as you pass by the mounds of rotting corpses. Let's not forget to mention the martian spacecraft hovering overhead watching this all take place, and hoping that it'll all be done by the next sunrise so that they can land, stretch their legs and take over. Meanwhile, Nibiru is about to hit, Jesus is baking bread in the Sinai, North Korea is putting a match to a wick on the end of a fifty year old Scud, a massive solar flare is heating up the atmosphere and those damn dirty apes are rising up. It's a fucking cartoon.

If you lead a horse to water, he'll only drink when he's thirsty. Same goes for conspiracies. If enough deluded fools believe in it, then it must be the truth. Well, that is of course, if Alex Jones says it is. Same goes for all those new age gurus spouting on this, that and the other. Common sense seems to have gone out the window. And it's all just a lot of talk right now. Talk, talk, talk. Proof? Proof of Nibiru? Proof of alien armadas? Proof of God? Proof of the Illuminati? Proof that we live in some sort of computerized alternate reality game? There is no proof. Nothing, just speculation. You're all believing in nothing that's not there. And yet, you're all miffed over something that seems to be there, but in reality (not the alternate reality, but the real reality) that something is being driven from the nothing that was made up to look like something that wasn't really real in the first place.

A spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down.

Governments are extremely flawed. That we do know. But if we didn't have a government, the rules would be tossed aside and anarchy and chaos would replace it. Paperwork sucks, taxes suck, not winning the lottery really sucks, that pimple on the end of nose sucks, Tom Cruise sucks (well, that's debatable), driving 55 sucks, standing in line sucks and so does paying $5.99 for a small soda at the movies. But it's the only viable system we have at the moment. If anyone can come up with a better solution, they should publicize it soon. Otherwise...
 
deprave

deprave

New Member
ThatGuy113 said:
and the positives of your alternative of course outweigh the positives of the current system?

and let alone the fact that you do have the ability to change things but its only when people actually know what the hell is going on. Thats why democracy is such a slow moving entity.

What realistic change could actually be made in the system of how people are governed and live ?. Short of the Apocalypse. The fact is your so convinced that the whole world is a conspiracy just plays into the fact that means its to late for change. We dont win in that scenario. Im sure you would of vanished by now like it was Stalinist Russia.

The alternative being no government at all. This would hinder the ability of civilization to function as a community which in turn hinders development and progress for all of us.
Click to expand...
I refer you to the Paine Quote in my op: "Government in its best state is but a necessary evil". Are you proposing that statism is the only way? You that big government can work if people weren't so dumb. To suggest that big government could ever have the interest of the people in mind is fool hearted, in good intentions. I wish it were true but it hasn't been true for thosands of years. I understand this thought seem negative and depress you so you reject them but how are we the exception, how could anyone be the exception to this law thats been true for all of written history? Your proposing that statism is the only practical means to live our life from day to day? Now that depresses me to think like that.

Democracy itself was first exploited by Edward Bernay's, a statist, the inventor of "public relations".
 
ThatGuy113

ThatGuy113

Well-Known Member
deprave said:
I refer you to the Paine Quote in my op: "Government in its best state is but a necessary evil". Are you proposing that statism is the only way? You that big government can work if people weren't so dumb. To suggest that big government could ever have the interest of the people in mind is fool hearted, in good intentions. I wish it were true but it hasn't been true for thosands of years. I understand this thought seem negative and depress you so you reject them but how are we the exception, how could anyone be the exception to this law thats been true for all of written history? Your proposing that statism is the only practical means to live our life from day to day? Now that depresses me to think like that.
Click to expand...
Ok and Thomas Jefferson said the same thing. Later when President he realized his policies needed to function in reality and not a ideological fantasy land. He expanded government influence domestically and internationally (Even outside of the western hemisphere). The true actions and the nature of the situations of the men who get quoted are the only measuring sticks to hold them too. He also lived in a world where undeveloped land had little to no interference when claiming land, so you were able to live off of the grid. The continent was open and ripe for the seizing. His theories could of never been tested in the kind of political environmental and working that we have today. Things change for a reason. Thats why they designed the country the way they did. I mean he was literally living in a world where presidents lost elections because the news of success of there international policy was a day to late because of the slow nature of communication back then.


The original goal of workers in the cities was to collect enough money to buy their own piece of property in the middle of no where and live off the land and become their own man. This quickly changed with the boom in business.
 
deprave

deprave

New Member
Farfenugen said:
Well, we sure are damned if we do and hell for sure as damned if we don't. So, if there is to be a revolsolution there will undoubtedly have to be a leader or leader(s) to make sure the movement is rolling along smoothly. Look at the debacle that was the occupy movement; no leader or clear set agenda. Just wasted time and nonsense passed along by anarchists, public shitters, paranoid so called encampment dictators and the media who pandered to make something out of nothing. And yet, we really have no idea what everything was all about. And the idea of having a leader is so that the rest of the masses who have joined the revolt have a clear objective - that is to remove the current system and create a new one. But herein lies the problem, you're only going to replace one hierarchy with another. Absolute power corrupts absolutely - right?

So, does this mean that we're all going to be prancing about like naked hippies in the forests, picking grubs and berries and breast feeding within feet of tigers and bears. Utopia? I doubt it. The idea (or ideology) of freedom isn't real to begin with. There's always going to be some sort of trade-off in order to manage a societal system. Social order preventing chaos. Who will manage that system? What are the rules? In a village, there is always going to be a need for protection from outside intruders, rustlers, thieves and other villages taking them over. Basically, in today's world, we live in a very large village, albeit states.

The system we live in today, may not be just, but at the present moment it's the best we have. And yes, the elite may hold most of the strings, but if the shit ever did hit the fan, I can guarantee you that there will be a lot of reprisals going on, and this, above all else, is what they fear more than anything. So they invent fears to keep us suppressed and calm. Some fears, however, are real, such as earthquakes, polar ice melts, the possibility of the magnetic poles shifting, or this so called alignment of the galaxy. Perhaps this is why we hear such things as underground bases. Maybe they know something we don't and are going to hide out underground like rats while the rest of us fend for ourselves top side. Anarchy, chaos and strife. But I doubt this is what's going to happen, it's just too big of a pill to swallow. Conspiracy and selling fear will only do one thing and that's make the populace paranoid even further. Fear. And it won't be ours but theirs. All this stuff is on the internet, readily available. What worse way is there than to have the citizenry informed of such an impending calamity? This in a nut shell is the catalyst for revolt. And yet, all we have are sketchy youtube videos, fear marketing by radio celebrities who sell this fear and a lot of conspiratorial rhetoric that seems at best, a bunch of silly nonsense, most of which has been debunked. But they'll not tell you because telling the truth as it happens, doesn't sell very many books or subscriptions or endorsements on late night alternative radio shows.

The world in which we live in is flawed, so much so that because of the internet and all this information floating out there, it's hard to make sense of what's real and what's bull shit. Nibiru? Some grand galactic alignment, that seems to fit somewhere between a science fiction story and an episode of Star Trek. Aliens again, always with these fucking pre-pubescent larvae beings that have an affectation for bovine delicacies and probing the asses of mid-western farm hands. Or the whole reptile/secret society/inbred thing. Pick a bad guy for once! And be done with it already. All these scenarios seem to be happening at once. It's beyond laughable. Is this what we're rallying against? The world is a shitty place but it's also the only place to be, otherwise all we have is the cold vacuum of space, and that's going to be a tough place to find a McDonald's at 2AM after a night at the bar.

Okay, say this is all true - well most of it, sans the butt-probing aliens and the whole religious thing. If the literal shit did hit the fan, who would aide us? What would you do? Would you gather up your friends and neighbours, form a safety group? Would you mass arms and begin guarding the supermarkets, the hospitals, the jails? Who would you trust? Your wife? Your congressman (who'd be so far underground by that time, that most of his calls would go unanswered). Or would you form a collective, make placards, protest the Capitol, save your grass clippings for tea and demand your last years tax payments?

Revolutions rarely never end well, nor do they begin easy. The middle parts are filled with anarchy and chaos, so it's basically a free-for-all then. And by that time, the planes would be dropping leaflets telling us all is calm, trust your leaders, please form an orderly line at your nearest gas chamber and try not to scream as you pass by the mounds of rotting corpses. Let's not forget to mention the martian spacecraft hovering overhead watching this all take place, and hoping that it'll all be done by the next sunrise so that they can land, stretch their legs and take over. Meanwhile, Nibiru is about to hit, Jesus is baking bread in the Sinai, North Korea is putting a match to a wick on the end of a fifty year old Scud, a massive solar flare is heating up the atmosphere and those damn dirty apes are rising up. It's a fucking cartoon.

If you lead a horse to water, he'll only drink when he's thirsty. Same goes for conspiracies. If enough deluded fools believe in it, then it must be the truth. Well, that is of course, if Alex Jones says it is. Same goes for all those new age gurus spouting on this, that and the other. Common sense seems to have gone out the window. And it's all just a lot of talk right now. Talk, talk, talk. Proof? Proof of Nibiru? Proof of alien armadas? Proof of God? Proof of the Illuminati? Proof that we live in some sort of computerized alternate reality game? There is no proof. Nothing, just speculation. You're all believing in nothing that's not there. And yet, you're all miffed over something that seems to be there, but in reality (not the alternate reality, but the real reality) that something is being driven from the nothing that was made up to look like something that wasn't really real in the first place.

A spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down.

Governments are extremely flawed. That we do know. But if we didn't have a government, the rules would be tossed aside and anarchy and chaos would replace it. Paperwork sucks, taxes suck, not winning the lottery really sucks, that pimple on the end of nose sucks, Tom Cruise sucks (well, that's debatable), driving 55 sucks, standing in line sucks and so does paying $5.99 for a small soda at the movies. But it's the only viable system we have at the moment. If anyone can come up with a better solution, they should publicize it soon. Otherwise...
Click to expand...
So your propsing the same things as ThatGuy. Your wrote all of that as your exscuse to somehow say government is extremely flawed yet we need powerfull government and if you can't think of a better solution then just shutup?

Again I refer to my original post:
"Statism NOT based on philosophy, nor does it originate from historical evidence or rational principles, is a false justication for human ownership, an exscuse for violence. "

Your rationalization is that everything is okay STFU, You really spent that many words to say this?
 
Farfenugen

Farfenugen

Well-Known Member
Not saying shut the fuck up, just propose an alternative. Too many of you wanderlusts are always going on about how bad everything is, yet there is no clear viable solution. Rant, rant, rant. Fine, then propose something other than whining about it constantly.
 
deprave

deprave

New Member
ThatGuy113 said:
Ok and Thomas Jefferson said the same thing. Later when President he realized his policies needed to function in reality and not a ideological fantasy land. He expanded government influence domestically and internationally (Even outside of the western hemisphere). The true actions and the nature of the situations of the men who get quoted are the only measuring sticks to hold them too. He also lived in a world where undeveloped land had little to no interference when claiming land, so you were able to live off of the grid. The continent was open and ripe for the seizing. His theories could of never been tested in the kind of political environmental and working that we have today. Things change for a reason. Thats why they designed the country the way they did. I mean he was literally living in a world where presidents lost elections because the news of success of there international policy was a day to late because of the slow nature of communication back then.


The original goal of workers in the cities was to collect enough money to buy their own piece of property in the middle of no where and live off the land and become their own man. This quickly changed with the boom in business.
Click to expand...
So why are you again suggesting that philosophy can not be practical? Philosophy is much more practical than idelogy and I am talking about philosophy over idelogy, this is almost the entire premise of the thread. You say idelogies are not practical. I agree, but then you are also saying philosophy is not practical and I disagree, philosophy is much more practical than idelogies. Then at the same time you actually suggest idelogie! So may i ask, So I must ask, What is it you are suggesting here!?!??! I am suggesting a philosophical approach and you are suggesting an idelogical one, completely different subject really. So when you asked what is my solution when you really have none and I have prvided plenty? Not really a an argument, just bickering. I provided mine and that is a philosophical approach, yours is apparently something even you admit is failed and flawed, and you say my writing is depressing when in your world shit just plain sucks and there is no answers lmao.


There are very fundamental differences between philosophy and ideology. Ideology refers to a set of beliefs, doctrines that back a certain social institution or a particular organization. Philosophy refers to looking at life in a pragmatic manner and attempting to understand why life is as it is and the principles governing behind it. Ideology expresses dissatisfaction with the current state and aspires to be some future state whereas philosophy tries to understand the world in its current state. In other words, ideology is aimed at changing the world whereas philosophy is aimed at seeking the truth.
Click to expand...
 
deprave

deprave

New Member
Anti-Idealism Philosophy

"The solution cannot be achieve in idealistic terms.In order for the oppressed to be able to wage the struggle for their liberation, they must Perceive the reality of the oppression not as a closed world from which there is no exit but as a limited situation which they can transform."
 
ThatGuy113

ThatGuy113

Well-Known Member
deprave said:
Anti-Idealism Philosophy

"The solution cannot be achieve in idealistic terms.In order for the oppressed to be able to wage the struggle for their liberation, they must Perceive the reality of the oppression not as a closed world from which there is no exit but as a limited situation which they can transform."
Click to expand...

You quoted the Matrix and argued that any form of government is just going to be oppressive and unfair in the first post. That's not a alternative. Its just breeding more "Im a disgruntled voter, I dont want to vote because everything is rigged" (making it even worse). If you want to change things you have to work within the confines of the actual political climate we live in today. Stop saying your offering a alternative when you havnt. An alternative would need more then just a basic argument on philosophy and how we perceive the political world. All the people at the top are sitting here treating politics like playing football but you want to come in and try to play tag. Its almost the same but its not. For the normal voter to "Perceive the reality of oppression" they would have to be educated about the subject in the first place. Well if you finally get them educated and help them become less reliant on the political fodder to make political decisions we could actually mobilize them to vote and create change, IMAGINE THAT. If you want change in society and government then you need to put in the work not just bitch about it on the internet. The revolution was not televised for this reason. Change takes time and the founding fathers knew that the amount of time it takes to actually inform the people and create change is long but when it makes it through it is uncontested. It was one of the check and balances set on the voting public and society to prevent a quick dramatic transition into a bad choice that no one saw coming. Its like how long it took white citizens to actually do something and spread the word about the abuses to non violent protesters being conducted by the states rights loving south during the Civil rights era.

How do you think those people got up to the top of the government. They played the Washington game and climbed the ladder. Is it that hard of a concept. If people complain about the system and refuse to partake they are just repeating mistakes. I swear to god you consider government affairs to be so complicated you have to refer to it like the Matrix. The more disgruntled you make the voters looking for the right thing to do the less will vote and the more we will have no voice to protect what we believe in.


Ill make it simple. Who do you always see voting more then any other age group. Seniors and soon to be seniors. Most of them have little interest about the best future for you and me. They are more worried about Glen Beck or Limbaughs plan for America. They are the ones who show up at EVERY voting event. When younger people dont go out in vote your just losing your voice. Weve done this for decades and this is where it has left us. We cant just climb out of the hole we have dug ourselves into with one shovel movement. It will take lots of shovel working to get your ass out the deep as hole we have found ourselves in. You cant just vote in two elections and expect the world to be a different place off the bat.

btw Thomas Pain was just as good at propaganda as the people you hate.


Sounds like the past 200 years of foriegn relations. He may of not like government but apparently he saw need to stop injustices elsewhere not just for America. Cause he was smart enough to figure out if its over there, it will soon be over here. Look at that, already preaching the gospel of making the world safe for democracy. That is only achievable by a strong federal government. Monroe, Truman and Eisenhower doctrines were all to follow. Im pretty sure your vision of the government does not include that portion of American "duty".

"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
-- Thomas Paine


All of these terrible results of ideologies were due to the fact that people who wanted those results worked within the confines of the groundwork for the nation. So if you want to change it why dont you just work within the confines of the founding fathers plan as well.
 
deprave

deprave

New Member
ThatGuy113 said:
You quoted the Matrix and argued that any form of government is just going to be oppressive and unfair in the first post. That's not a alternative. Its just breeding more "Im a disgruntled voter, I dont want to vote because everything is rigged" (making it even worse). If you want to change things you have to work within the confines of the actual political climate we live in today. Stop saying your offering a alternative when you havnt. An alternative would need more then just a basic argument on philosophy and how we perceive the political world.
Click to expand...
The alternative I am arguing is that the least government possible is the best government possible because government is inherently evil.

As for the rest of argument, Tag vs Football, I am offering philosophy and you are offering ideology, that is the clear difference. You are arguing against philosophy and I am arguing against ideology, its an endless circle. I am sorry that your not a philosophical person, some people aren't and thats perfectly naturual but you have to try to understand what your arguing against here really or its just like bashing your head against a wall repetively because we aren't in the same conversation here.
 
ThatGuy113

ThatGuy113

Well-Known Member
deprave said:
The alternative I am arguing is that the least government possible is the best government possible because government is inherently evil.

As for the rest of argument, Tag vs Football, I am offering philosophy and you are offering ideology, that is the clear difference. You are arguing against philosophy and I am arguing against ideology, its an endless circle. I am sorry that your not a philosophical person, some people aren't and thats perfectly naturual but you have to try to understand what your arguing against here really or its just like bashing your head against a wall repetively because we aren't in the same conversation here.
Click to expand...

Id tend to think of the view point that I stand on as a realist application of policies based on the events of the past that shape the world today seen and unseen. There was a reason the federal government was empowered in the first place. I see it as failure of Human implementation and you see it as a failure of ideology. That is the most simple point that divides us. Its not all that different but there is a difference and mostly that difference is applied to what actions should be taken. Now a long term downsizing would be more then efficient but most of the arguments made on the other side are based on a knee jerk reaction to shut down government branches tomorrow. Not realizing the implications of the decisions.

Im telling you that the system works, you just have to put the work into it. Not scream total ideological failure because the true instructions of the ideology were NEVER fully implemented.

The failure of citizens to realize we are no longer the ONE MEGA SUPERPOWER of the world but rather the first among equals. Domestic policies severely affect foreign policy and international relationships. You have to look at the whole picture of the system not just some of the moving parts. Want a example. The mishandling of every nationalist entity the U.S. has ran into. China, Cuba, Vietnam, North Korea and so on.

What your truly afraid of is what Eisenhower warned against in his farewell address.
 
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