I'm in 5 gallon fabric pots, Royal Gold Tuper, mixed with worm castings and Neem seed, insect frass and dry amendments and my leaves are showing sings of twisting and deficiencies. About halfway thru flower and this is my 1st time growing in soil and for the love of god I cannot figure this out. Ive been doing compost teas and banana teas. I thought maybe a mag deficiency but Epsom salt didn't seem to help. Was watering every 5 days but since I dropped the temps into low 70s I'm watering once a week ( with real growers recharge mixed in). Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you.
Twisting and burnt edges
- Thread starter StanL
- Start date
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Looks like the onset of toxic salts buildup, TSB, to me. Definitely nute burn going on and the yellowing leaves will likely begin going dry, brown and crispy soon. Half way thru flower is when it usually shows up and will progress into the bud leaves by the time it's done if that's what it is.
What's your water like as mineral salts in tap water add to the salts load and contribute to the problem too?
What's your water like as mineral salts in tap water add to the salts load and contribute to the problem too?
I use r/o water and I don't check the pH since I'm growing in soil. I water till just a little bit comes out the bottom of the 5 gallons so that I don't wash out my nutes and microorganisms.Looks like the onset of toxic salts buildup, TSB, to me. Definitely nute burn going on and the yellowing leaves will likely begin going dry, brown and crispy soon. Half way thru flower is when it usually shows up and will progress into the bud leaves by the time it's done if that's what it is.
What's your water like as mineral salts in tap water add to the salts load and contribute to the problem too?
Week4@inCharge
Well-Known Member
you should water to 20% runoff so that some of your nutes wash out ...as the water dries (in-between watering) the nutes stay... building up ..and you just keep adding and adding.... check your runoff ppm and EC . Keep us posted
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
It's excess nutes that causes salts buildup and burning like I see with your plants. If the leaves start going crispy with yellow/brown patches all over then it is TSB. Had that happening a lot here but found it was because of our dry air causing the plants to drink a lot and pull up too much nutrients. Low ppm feedings helped fix that.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
I feed hydro nutes and RO water with mainly ProMix HP soilless and never get any extra runoff. Since I clued into how my low RH was causing me problems never see any burning in my plants now. Salts won't build up if you don't give them too much so extra runoff isn't needed unless you overfeed them. Switched to feeding half as much with each watering and the plants seem happier now too. Keeps the nute level more steady that way.
The RH being low kinda makes since about the time I saw signs I think was when I moved my humidifier to my veg tent. Although I don't think it's nute burn because of excessive salt build up. Just simply because the only salts I believe are in my nutes are the natural sea salts found in my crab and kelp meals since I use organic dry amendments. I might need to get a new humidistat cuz since I put my ac in the bloom room it says it hasn't dropped below 45. I was also thinking that since I know that with dry amendments that when your soil starts to dry up and there is less water the nutrient content gets stronger that maybe my Coco was getting dry spots and that was causing the nute burn. I put the humidifier back in the bloom room hopefully this will help. I'll keep ya updated. Thank you!
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OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
This is one thing organic growers in general fail to grasp. The bio-herd in your soil has to break down the organic matter into something the plants can eat. And those things are . . . salts. Exactly the same as what comes in bottles for hydro use. Organic growing has a lot more contaminants like heavy metals in it than hydro nutes do too. Mostly there from natural minerals being broken down by the same bugs that you want in your soil. Makes those nasty things easy for the plants to absorb too so you get more in your buds.
A hot soil like Furry Frog or whatever that stuff is called burns plants quite easily the same way hydro nutes does so salts can build up in the best of soils.
Soil temp is important too so if the temp in your pots is about 75 - 80F the bugs are a lot more active and multiply faster thus producing more food for the plants. I've been getting more into organics and grew great autos outside this summer that were a good 90% organic with compost from our own piles, manures lobster/crab meal, DynoMyco, greensand, bone and blood meal, gypsum etc etc and our lousy tap water from the dugout on my acreage. 400+ ppm and pH 8+. ProMix HP for the base. Almost zero rain from mid June to harvest.
Indoors I'm using much the same mix minus the compost as I can't sterilize large amounts and it's going to have bugs that would wreak havoc inside. Outside I just had a few thrips I kept down hunting them by hand and didn't see any the last few weeks.
What kind of AC in the bloom room? Portable with one hose for the exhaust? If so it will draw moist air in from outside and defeat the purpose of reducing RH. Dual hose or mini-split for way better RH and temp control. Then you might as well set up a sealed room and add CO2 which is something I'd like to do myself.
Did some 'shrooms earlier and my typing has gone to shit.
Week4@inCharge
Well-Known Member
do you check ppm runoff? should match what your putting in or a little under, especially if your growing in Coco.. just saw this last night, very interesting.
Rurumo
Well-Known Member
This is extremely common when using myriad dry amendments in Coco, lots of Mr. Canuck victims come to this site every day. What I would recommend, you probably will not like. I would buy some Maxibloom, and start feeding it like coco should be fed-frequently and with tons of runoff. I wouldn't flush those pots with plain water, it will just make matters worse. I would flush WHILE feeding them, though I'd start at the low end, say 400 ppms the first feed, and go for 30-50% runoff. Do that for a few days, then your media will be mostly flushed out, although those amendments will keep breaking down, you'll continue to flush them out while feeding-go up to 600 ppm per feed, 5.8 PH with 20% runoff. How often is up to you, some people feed coco twice per day by hand (like me), some people feed 5 times per day with drippers, and some treat coco exactly like soil, though I wouldn't recommend that in your situation. Doing this will snap your plants out of lockout, re-adjust their PH (through frequent feeds), and kickstart their growth. I recommend Maxibloom for this, because it's an easy to use, reliable, 1 part formula that is complete, but you could do the same thing with Jack's A&B if you want.
Lol I wouldnt say I'm a victim as for the most part it's been a fairly easy grow. It's coco but it's more of a super soil with coco. It cooked for 60 days. Only 3 of my 8 plants are having problems. Definitely a learning curve from liquid nutes but the smell and terp profiles are way better than when I grew the same strains ( not that they were bad but omg) with liquid nutes. Whole mix. Royal Gold Tuper, worm castings, great white, recharge, insect frass, neem meal, crab meal, Kelp meal, alfalfa meal, bio live, gypsum, Oster shell, Epsom salt, bat guano, rock phosphate. Top dressed for flower with mother earth all purpose, power flower and bone meal. I've also done compost teas ( worm castings, alfalfa meal, kelp meal) and banana peel teas ( banana peels, alfalfa meal, rock phosphate, kelp meal) and real growers recharge added at the end. I always water with straight r/o water with recharge.
Well I already have maxibloom from my other coco grows but your right I don't like that Idea. Im just going to ride it out if I can't save them naturally.. if they don't turn out looking pretty I guess I'll just wash it and make hash. Thanks for your help tho.
Week4@inCharge
Well-Known Member
I was thinking the same, waiting for known member to comment
myke
Well-Known Member
All good but what’s the base mix? Peat coco perlite etc
LoL the Royal Gold Tuper.. is Coco and perlite
And aged forest material and basalt
Hopefully I can make it to the end without these ladies doing the same thing. I am now starting to see why people pheno hunt and take clones instead of starting from seed as most of my plants are doing well but a couple are just real finiky
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Week4@inCharge
Well-Known Member
I'd still check runoff EC, PPM, Ph, all of the above stuff.. have a Known Member here helping me with similar problem (yellowing) but what you got going is screaming nute burn.
Week4@inCharge
Well-Known Member
looking great,, they can handle a lot.. mostly us is whats getting the way..lol