vertical growing

cerberus

cerberus

Well-Known Member
Vertical growing,
There has been a heated discussion on another thread about vertical growing. The vertical method is similar to https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/149998-heaths-flooded-tube-vertical.html or another of Heaths vert style http://strainguide.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/heaths-vertical-racks-strainguide.html , https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/256847-dystopias-ppp-250w-vscrog.html with the coliseum style.
So the debate has been the efficiency of these grows vs. that of flat growing. This debate has ranged from claims that the vertical grow could yield upwards of 4 times that of a flat grow, to those that say a vertical grow loses out do to extended flowering times, or essentially a larger overall amount of electricity used versus that of the flat grow.
Any how.
I figured it should get a thread of its own rather than sit in the “1g per watt question” thread. I also believe it to be a pretty clever idea, I can also see some areas of concern. BUT I am a newbie and I would rather get the perspective of a few people maybe some real pro even.
What do you guys think?
bongsmilie
 
TheNatural

TheNatural

Well-Known Member
This is my first time using Vertical Growing myself.

I wish I would have done it sooner!

Everyone has their own concept in mind, but for what I like " wich is big revegged bushes, the vertical lighting so far has proved to me to be the best.

The overall growth has increased and also the way " most importantly " the way the light is being utilized to its maximum.

I am SOLD on it for sure and would not go back....

Blessings,

Rev. TheNatural
 
That 5hit

That 5hit

Well-Known Member
verts, its the future because its better



[youtube]Yra0g5uOXhQ[/youtube][youtube]UrAd_okZ4PU[/youtube]
[youtube]02Uz95UGhRg[/youtube][youtube]EBDgWYKGUjo[/youtube]
[youtube]bhEsRlGuifc[/youtube][youtube]9GK3TJoCSG0[/youtube]
[youtube]zB7Q66B9j6c[/youtube][youtube]veIslyfqzFc[/youtube]
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
A 4'X4" horizontal setup has 16 sq feet of growing area. A 4' diameter vertical setup with 4' of height gives 50.24 sq feet which is 3 times growing area. However, when you spread the light over a greater distance, you reduce its lumens by the same ratio. A light mover can expand a horizontal to 10' X 4' about 80% of the vertical. So the vert does have an edge when it comes to area. The vert also has a slight edge in what is lost by a reflector in the horizontal.

The benefits of the horizontal are first obviously the hassle free setup. The hor also has the benefit of lighting from the top which maximizes the light exposure of each plant as it receives light on all sides. The hor with a light mover also allows the light to be much closer to the plants and to be adjusted according to growth.

In the end, my intuition tells me that while the vert has some advantages, there is no escaping the physics of light. While the vert picks up some growing area, the same could be achieved by simply raising the light in the hor to cover more area. Unfortunately, light diminishes with the square of the distance. So increased area probably just translates into less lumens per sq foot. The fact that the light is further away only makes this worse. Also, lighting the plant from the side produces more shaded plant area than from the top. I don't know how much is lost here but I suspect it is significant. It should be noted that people with crappy reflectors would likely see a significant increase by going int a vert, but if you have a really good reflector you lose very little light.

Now I am not 100% against the vert - I may even try it some time. The savings on the light mover and top notch reflector is good enough reason. I do however have a far superior system in mind. I would use 15 gal plastic drums and go DWC. Way less hassle than all that PVC and dirt cheap. Just arrange 8 or so drums and drill 3 or 4 holes per drum. You could even make a big access hole on the opposite side of the drum and use the bung for drainage. Hell, i might even build one and try it just for kicks. I'd use the floor space too.
 
That 5hit

That 5hit

Well-Known Member
TheNatural said:
This is my first time using Vertical Growing myself.

I wish I would have done it sooner!

Everyone has their own concept in mind, but for what I like " wich is big revegged bushes, the vertical lighting so far has proved to me to be the best.

The overall growth has increased and also the way " most importantly " the way the light is being utilized to its maximum.

I am SOLD on it for sure and would not go back....

Blessings,

Rev. TheNatural
Click to expand...
can we see pics of your grow and post a link to your journal or use this as your journal
 
cerberus

cerberus

Well-Known Member
:peace:
RickWhite said:
A 4'X4" horizontal setup has 16 sq feet of growing area. A 4' diameter vertical setup with 4' of height gives 50.24 sq feet which is 3 times growing area. However, when you spread the light over a greater distance, you reduce its lumens by the same ratio. A light mover can expand a horizontal to 10' X 4' about 80% of the vertical. So the vert does have an edge when it comes to area. The vert also has a slight edge in what is lost by a reflector in the horizontal.
Click to expand...
bongsmilie
RW, Last time I ran a light mover if I remember correctly those things suck up electricty like a 3 dollar whore. This has always eliminated the use of one in my book, for the initial cost of the unit (+/- 200$) plus the operating cost makes a second light more advantagous. I don't have a light mover these days and it has been a while since I did, if someone had the amps used to operate it would be nice.

RickWhite said:
...
The benefits of the horizontal are first obviously the hassle free setup. The hor also has the benefit of lighting from the top which maximizes the light exposure of each plant as it receives light on all sides...
Click to expand...
How can light from the tope expose the sides to more light? My intuition says, that light from above vs light from the side are a wash in considering individual plant light exposure. That is to say, why would a plant get more lummens from either setup? a 600wt from the side or from above is going to shower the plant with the same amount of light.
:leaf:
RickWhite said:
...While the vert picks up some growing area, the same could be achieved by simply raising the light in the hor to cover more area. Unfortunately, light diminishes with the square of the distance. So increased area probably just translates into less lumens per sq foot. The fact that the light is further away only makes this worse.
Click to expand...
:weed:
This seems to be the biggest advantage the vert growing has. The light can be close to more plants due to utilizing the space on all sides of the bulb versus the horiz grow.

RickWhite said:
Also, lighting the plant from the side produces more shaded plant area than from the top. I don't know how much is lost here but I suspect it is significant.
Click to expand...
What makes you believe this? I don't know any data so this is all assumptions for me, but why would light get through the top of a canopy better than through the sides? bongsmilieI always felt it would be opposite of that, this is the reason a lot of people rock the side lighting. If you have experienced different or could explain why side lighting penitrates less than top lighting I would love to hear it.


RickWhite said:
Now I am not 100% against the vert - I may even try it some time. The savings on the light mover and top notch reflector is good enough reason. I do however have a far superior system in mind. I would use 15 gal plastic drums and go DWC. Way less hassle than all that PVC and dirt cheap. Just arrange 8 or so drums and drill 3 or 4 holes per drum. You could even make a big access hole on the opposite side of the drum and use the bung for drainage. Hell, i might even build one and try it just for kicks. I'd use the floor space too.
Click to expand...
Good luck with your grow, I am still an old school dirt guy and am considering moving to the new age, maybe a vert style with 2 400's, w/ a PVC pipe hydro but it won't be for a while.
:hump:
 
cerberus

cerberus

Well-Known Member
That 5hit said:
you gat to love this guy hidden room wall
check out this vertical grow and its a water cooled light 1kw
heres the link https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/263979-sealed-water-cooled-blueberry-coco.html#post3315542


Click to expand...
yeah talk about clever, sneaky even :blsmoke:

Is this a vert or just a real low hung horiz? I like the whole setup though. all equip. hidden outside the wall, false wall for security, maybe I would have put it on the second row of plywood, so I didn't have to get on my knees to look inside. I hate having to get on my knees to talk to my lady's.. :dunce:
 
DubRules

DubRules

Well-Known Member
heath's system kicks ass.
im pretty sure that not much can rival his yields using the same footprint.

the sky's the limit.
literally..
 
That 5hit

That 5hit

Well-Known Member
cerberus said:
yeah talk about clever, sneaky even :blsmoke:

Is this a vert or just a real low hung horiz? I like the whole setup though. all equip. hidden outside the wall, false wall for security, maybe I would have put it on the second row of plywood, so I didn't have to get on my knees to look inside. I hate having to get on my knees to talk to my lady's.. :dunce:
Click to expand...
yes i would class this as a vert. for me as long as you have plants growing all around the light then you are a pervert grower = a grower that perfer's vertical grows (LOL)

DubRules said:
heath's system kicks ass.
im pretty sure that not much can rival his yields using the same footprint.

the sky's the limit.
literally..
Click to expand...
the only down side to heath system or style of his vert system is the cost to build other then that its prety simple to build, but i would have to wait for my tax returns to build one (and i plan to)
this is why this thread was started to get feed back from those who have build these system to see what idea's we can come up with - for me i now do very small personal grows but do plan on getting it to the crop for cash business and verts are diff. the way to go , just need to find a cheap way to build one

how do you like this setup idea
i'm thinking its a sprayer and drain system with no flood- its drains into the rez fast- no need for a clone room you can go from mother to flower room saving time- the sprayers run 24/7 -each tote is set in a wooden frame shaped like a (#) made of 2 by 2 with maybe a crose bar to keep the tote from fallen out of the # frame. the drawing is missing the frame part
the totes would have to be made water tight with the lids
but this is what i was thinking about while at work on how a sturdy cheap diy vert system could be made
with sprayer and water pump and a wooden stand on wheels useing a storage tote to hold the plants 6-9 each the shaded pipe is the drain return and this is to be made medium free
24 to 36 plants per wall
my guess is 1 wall would cost less then 60$ usd to build

 
cerberus

cerberus

Well-Known Member
That 5hit said:
yes i would class this as a vert. for me as long as you have plants growing all around the light then you are a pervert grower = a grower that perfer's vertical grows (LOL)
Click to expand...
Thats some funny shit right there, I don't care who you are..

That 5hit said:
Click to expand...
-> Will water/moister get trapped in the tupperware containers? don't the have a slight angle out to the lid?
-> now make it 4-5 wall stadium and take the idea of having a reg. horiz grow on the bottom to boot. I like the idea of it being on wheels, thats kinda lazy bongsmilie
 
That 5hit

That 5hit

Well-Known Member
cerberus said:
Thats some funny shit right there, I don't care who you are..

-> Will water/moister get trapped in the tupperware containers? don't the have a slight angle out to the lid?
-> now make it 4-5 wall stadium and take the idea of having a reg. horiz grow on the bottom to boot. I like the idea of it being on wheels, thats kinda lazy bongsmilie
Click to expand...
the lids would be sealed with fish tank water proofing sealent and the tube will have large drain holes so as to not allow water to pool / flood in the tubes
the reasoning for wheels is in the heath style vert i saw it would be hard to get in and out to service the system and plants the only down side to having 4 wall system all on wheels is now i would ave to service 4 rez instead of 1 like in heath, maybe i could do 2 rez have 3 walls on 1 rez and have the door wall on it on rez

- i do like the idea of also growing under the light as well as around the light
 
That 5hit

That 5hit

Well-Known Member
if i could lamminate some wood or find some plastic board i could make 1 whole wall piece with sprayer and neoprene foam inserts so as tobe medium free with like 20, 25, or 36 slots per wall with a small rez the wall would be held together by silicone the type they make fish tanks out of
 
B

budleydoright

Well-Known Member
It's called the Eco System. It's an all in one "just ad plants" system. I think commercial systems are awsome but for me I got to get down and dirty with it. a high % of the stuff made or sold in this industry is simply a repurposed item. I always try to find the original source or supplier to go as cheap as possible. It's not always for the $$$ it's that desire to beat the system that drives me!

that 5hit, look in the yellow pages under plastic supply, find some one that sells acrylic and abs sheets. The same stuff a typical commercial rez is made of should cost you way less than 100 bucks for a 4 x 8 sheet.
 
That 5hit

That 5hit

Well-Known Member
budleydoright said:
that 5hit, look in the yellow pages under plastic supply, find some one that sells acrylic and abs sheets. The same stuff a typical commercial rez is made of should cost you way less than 100 bucks for a 4 x 8 sheet.
Click to expand...
if i could +rep you again i would
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top