Wanting advice on a perpetual harvest setup

James1775

James1775

Member
I'm really new to this and would like to have someone who knows whats up to give me some advice. This is my second grow, my first was a complete failure due mostly to me but I've learned a few things and was inspired by this guys post. Anyways I have a walk in closet that has two shelves on one side and one on the other, I was planning on using the two shelve side for veg and the one shelf side for flowering. The goal is to start flowering two plants every week. So figuring on an average flower time of 7 weeks I should have 14 plants in my flower area at a time and harvesting two plants every week. Right now I have 10 plants that have been vegging for about 5 weeks split on the two shelves. both are under floro's and I'm due to get a 400 watt hps tomorro that I'll be using for flowering, I'm also thinking I'll be putting in some floros to add a lil light to the lower parts of my plants. My plants now are getting fox farms grow big at half strength every other watering and I think I'll up it to full strength on the next feeding (I'm trying to keep it pretty simple as I'm still really new at this). I'm concered about moving plants from floro to hps, anyone have any experience with this? Also I'm under the impression that I should continue veg nutes until I see flowers and then ween it off of veg nutes on onto flower nutes? I haven't bought the flowering nutes, but am planning on buying whatever fox farms has at the hydro shop. My last question is mostly theoretical, I've read that marijuana has two different types of roots. The ones at the top absorb mostly co2 and the ones towards the bottom absorb water and nutes. If that is the case what would happen if I set up some sort of tube into the soil to water threw. something with a few tubes going down to a french drain type system, where vertical tubes connect to a tube that's wound around the pot with small drainage holes. just a thought and thank you in advance.
 
Sgt.Sly

Sgt.Sly

Well-Known Member
I'll be back to help with ideas, i love perpetuals. Always have one going on. I too use a 400W hps for my 12/12 room. Perpetuals work great on a 12/12 system. Right from clone or seed. You can use smaller pots like party cups and fit so many more into a space. you can add to it at any time. I have worked it out to 4 stages 3 weeks apart introducing a new seedling or clone. On a 76-90 day cycle. 4 plants in final stages at all times yeild me about 2 ounces every 3 weeks.
 
R

reeferMaster

Well-Known Member
water has co2 and oxy gen in it mother nature waters from the top, but that is very true the top roots love 2 be dry so they can recive air flow, some rooms may only need 2 be water once a week during bud, i would suggest using the whole closet 2 grow in. there fore u can have an intake 2 your veg and exaust in ur bud
 
James1775

James1775

Member
Thanks for the reply, and yea Sgt, I would like to work my way up to more, I have two solo cups that are nursing seedlings that I plan to stick in the flowering room at some point and seeing how thier yeild compares to the others. I'm not sure how big the pots are I have them in now are, but I'm guessing 2-3 gal. and reefer what do you mean by using the whole closet to grow in? do you mean to veg? and I rent an appartment so I don't want to deal with drywall patches (lazy pothead). and as far as the tube dealy thing-a-magigur I was thinking that it would be virtually impossible to overwater.
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
James1775 said:
I'm really new to this and would like to have someone who knows whats up to give me some advice. This is my second grow, my first was a complete failure due mostly to me but I've learned a few things and was inspired by this guys post. Anyways I have a walk in closet that has two shelves on one side and one on the other, I was planning on using the two shelve side for veg and the one shelf side for flowering. The goal is to start flowering two plants every week. So figuring on an average flower time of 7 weeks I should have 14 plants in my flower area at a time and harvesting two plants every week. Right now I have 10 plants that have been vegging for about 5 weeks split on the two shelves. both are under floro's and I'm due to get a 400 watt hps tomorro that I'll be using for flowering, I'm also thinking I'll be putting in some floros to add a lil light to the lower parts of my plants. My plants now are getting fox farms grow big at half strength every other watering and I think I'll up it to full strength on the next feeding (I'm trying to keep it pretty simple as I'm still really new at this). I'm concered about moving plants from floro to hps, anyone have any experience with this? Also I'm under the impression that I should continue veg nutes until I see flowers and then ween it off of veg nutes on onto flower nutes? I haven't bought the flowering nutes, but am planning on buying whatever fox farms has at the hydro shop. My last question is mostly theoretical, I've read that marijuana has two different types of roots. The ones at the top absorb mostly co2 and the ones towards the bottom absorb water and nutes. If that is the case what would happen if I set up some sort of tube into the soil to water threw. something with a few tubes going down to a french drain type system, where vertical tubes connect to a tube that's wound around the pot with small drainage holes. just a thought and thank you in advance.
Click to expand...
My perpetual harvest is very simple. Three phases, three lights. Mothers, clones, and seedlings in one area under CFLs - 18/6. Veg phase under MH - 18/6. Separate light proof space for flowering under HPS - 12/12.

When a flowering plant finishes, a hole opens up in the flowering space and the next plant in line in the veg box gets transplanted into a larger container and goes in. This opens up a hole in the veg box where the next seedling or clone on deck in the mother box goes. The hole in the mother box is filled with a new clone from the mother or new seedling. As you can see it's an event driven matrix. Everything except the mother gets rotated through in its time.

Save the fancy experimentation stuff for when you get more experience. New growers often fall into a phase where they feel they must reinvent the wheel before they learn the craft. Get comfortable with your skills then fiddle with any untested innovations. Another common downfall is to cheap out on equipment or seeds, but I doubt the latter applies to you.

One major consideration is space. The mother and vegging spaces can be about the same size in area, but the vegging space should be a little higher. The flowering space must be larger in area to allow for transplanting and higher to accommodate growth during flowering.

The result is a steady harvest and no overwhelming amount of work to do at any given time, but just about always something to do. My system essentially regulates itself because a task is done as needed.

Then there's ventilation. A lot of lights and plants in one concentrated area will get warm and smelly.

Good luck and good growing.
 
Sgt.Sly

Sgt.Sly

Well-Known Member
Johnnyorganic said:
My perpetual harvest is very simple. Three phases, three lights. Mothers, clones, and seedlings in one area under CFLs - 18/6. Veg phase under MH - 18/6. Separate light proof space for flowering under HPS - 12/12.

When a flowering plant finishes, a hole opens up in the flowering space and the next plant in line in the veg box get transplanted into a larger container and goes in. This opens up a hole in the veg box where the next seedling or clone on deck in the mother box goes. The hole in the mother box is filled with a new clone from the mother or new seedling. As you can see it's an event driven matrix. Everything except the mother gets rotated through in its time.

Save the fancy experimentation stuff for when you get more experience. New growers often fall into a phase where they feel they must reinvent the wheel before they learn the craft. Get comfortable with your skills then fiddle with any untested innovations. Another common downfall is to cheap out on equipment or seeds, but I doubt the latter applies to you.

One major consideration is space. The mother and vegging spaces can be about the same size in area, but the vegging space should be a little higher. The flowering space must be larger in area to allow for transplanting and higher to accommodate growth during flowering.

The result is a steady harvest and no overwhelming amount of work to do at any given time, but just about always something to do. My system essentially regulates itself because a task is done as needed.

Then there's ventilation. A lot of lights and plants in one concentrated area will get warm and smelly.

Good luck and good growing.
Click to expand...
I fully second this advice, and +rep it too, (like you need it LOL)

Permission to quote your perpetual theory on another thread? goes hand in hand with someone else I'm helpin.
 
James1775

James1775

Member
You know johny, I've put a little bit of research into growing and I've never seen anything about this before, I think I may be in love, I mean not even my dealer is guaranteed to come through every week. I would like to hear more about your op. strains that have worked and those that haven't, nutes etc. and I hear what you're saying about experimentation, and I agree. I don't think I would try it anytime soon, but I rarely have a good idea so I figured I would share. Right now I think I can fit 10-12 plants in the veg area and 15 in my flowering area. The flowering area will allow me to keep plants up to 3' allowing for the pot and the light +12" space so it doesn't burn the plant, I am also hoping not to transplant after the current pot, again guessing 2-3 gal-ish. ventilation is also not happening, I'll have fans in all the areas, but the only place I can vent anything is the heating vent witch doesn't come across as that good of an idea. where I live its getting pretty cold so I'm more concerned with keeping it warm enough. Last weekend I think we had a high in the single digits, fucking cold! and thank you so much for the response.

edit: I'm growing ice and ak 48, figured that may help you help me, and if there is anything else I'm forgetting please let me know.
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
I've found that 1-gallon pots do well for clones, seedlings, and vegging. The plants respond well when they get the opportunity to fill out a container under the MH. At flowering time they go into 3-gallon containers and they really seem to like it when they can spread out under the more intense HPS.

I really like the Fox Farms dry fertilizers. I use Tomato and Vegetable for vegging and Fruit and Flower for flowering.

Lowryder II - Low growing. Small yield. Great taste.
Thai Skunk - Fucking monsters. Got so big I had to move them outside. Very good smoke.
Red Shiva - Medium height. Took a while to finish but well worth the wait.
Skunk #1 - My all time favorite. Excellent yield. Medium/high height. Delicious. Extremely easy to clone.
Northern Lights - Eh. I think I had a bad batch because only a few germinated. Short/medium height. Decent yield and finishes up quickly. Decent taste. I intend to try again with seeds from another source.
Mango - Very similar to Northern Lights as far as growth, height, and finishing. Extremely tasty.
Bagseed - I learned how to grow on them. You get what you get. It's a crap shoot, but every once in a while you hit a home run. High hermie rate. I have several medicine bottles full of old schwag bagseeds from my buying days and I will get a wild hair up my ass and grow a few out just for fun.
On Deck: White Widow and Papaya
 
James1775

James1775

Member
So they like being a little restricted during veg? I was hoping not to transplant b/c it seems like it takes two people and I would prefer people not knowing about my grow, and don't really like the idea of getting someone else in my growroom every week. Paranoid I know, but I had a close call with my ex. I was also thinking about doing some white widow or white rhino after I get a whole cycle in and see how I like my current strains. I've heard that shiva is a good smoke, and that mango sounds tasty. When you switch strains does it cause any problems as far as different finishing times? Do I use the dry nutes the same as I would the liquid ones? In your opinion do the dry nutes out perform the liquid nutes? I also am getting that I shouldn't be concerned about moving from floros in veg straight to hps in flowering.

+rep for all the good info!
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
James1775 said:
So they like being a little restricted during veg? I was hoping not to transplant b/c it seems like it takes two people and I would prefer people not knowing about my grow, and don't really like the idea of getting someone else in my growroom every week. Paranoid I know, but I had a close call with my ex. I was also thinking about doing some white widow or white rhino after I get a whole cycle in and see how I like my current strains. I've heard that shiva is a good smoke, and that mango sounds tasty. When you switch strains does it cause any problems as far as different finishing times? Do I use the dry nutes the same as I would the liquid ones? In your opinion do the dry nutes out perform the liquid nutes? I also am getting that I shouldn't be concerned about moving from floros in veg straight to hps in flowering.

+rep for all the good info!
Click to expand...
It's not so much that they enjoy being restricted, because that's not the case. They enjoy filling out the container. In a functional system transplant would occur before they became restricted.

Transplanting is a one person job and very easy, especially when the plant has filled out its present container and is ready to progress to the next sized container.

Different strains are irrelevant because the system is event driven. No single plant moves forward until a space appears for it at the next phase. The system dictates when a plant moves forward.

However, I do limit myself to no more than two different strains at the same time because I need the time to fully examine all aspects of any particular strain. And I'll only have two strains going when I am phasing one out and one in.

I use organic dry fertilizer because it's damn near impossible to burn your plants and no rinsing is required. In the past I have used concentrated mixes designed to be watered in (Open Sesame, Beastie Bloomz, & Cha Ching) and burned the living shit out of my plants. I never did figure out the right feeding combination and finally switched over to dry organic fertilizer.

My system uses CFL for mothers/seedling/clones because they respond well to the mild light. In veg the MH is more intense but the plants transition well and flourish. The subsequent move to the HPS is not a problem either. I don't see why CFL to HPS would be a problem if the plant is ready to transition. And lights can be adjusted for height to accommodate intensity requirements.
 
James1775

James1775

Member
That makes sense, I'll have to invest in some 1 gal pots on the next go round, and that will give me more room in the veg area.

It sounds like I'll have to adopt the event driven concept as opposed to the time frame mindset. I'll have to work on that, my last grow failed due to my impatiance.

Thanks for the info on the dry nutes, I didn't notice them at my hydro shop, but I'll take a better look.

As far as the lighting transition, I understand this plant does not like change. So that was the root of my worry but thank you for putting it to rest.

I would like to eventually put a mh in the veg area, but $$ is pretty tight. I'm kinda hoping to make a little money by "getting rid of some pot" to invest in better lighting and ventilation all around. I really am enjoying this and don't want to make $$ my primary goal, but it would be nice to have a few extra bones in my pocket.
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
James1775 said:
That makes sense, I'll have to invest in some 1 gal pots on the next go round, and that will give me more room in the veg area.

It sounds like I'll have to adopt the event driven concept as opposed to the time frame mindset. I'll have to work on that, my last grow failed due to my impatiance.

Thanks for the info on the dry nutes, I didn't notice them at my hydro shop, but I'll take a better look.

As far as the lighting transition, I understand this plant does not like change. So that was the root of my worry but thank you for putting it to rest.

I would like to eventually put a mh in the veg area, but $$ is pretty tight. I'm kinda hoping to make a little money by "getting rid of some pot" to invest in better lighting and ventilation all around. I really am enjoying this and don't want to make $$ my primary goal, but it would be nice to have a few extra bones in my pocket.
Click to expand...
It's very tempting for a new grower to over-think his grow when it's really very simple. Nature has been doing it for eons without our help. The over-thinking leads to the impatience. And many of a new growers questions are answered through the course of the grow by the plants themselves.

You have an HPS. If you don't have the jack for an MH system you might consider an MH conversion bulb. They fit right into the HPS ballast and are not much more than an HPS bulb. On second thought, scratch that. A perpetual harvest can be done with two lights initially and CFL to HPS is probably the best way to do this. You probably will want to enhance your CFL capacity to accommodate combining the first two phases of the system. When you are ready you can purchase the MH system.

Change is inevitable. The entire life cycle of a plant is a series of changes, but in nature those changes are usually incremental. We speed things up a little in an artificial environment, but the essentials found in nature are all there. I'd say that plants don't respond well to unreasonable changes.

Growing is a hobby for me so I can't advise you on the selling. When the full cure jars start stacking up, I scale back the grow. Insanely easy to do with my system. 'No tell. No smell. No sell' is my mantra.
 
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