Week 4 Flowering, Big Problems. Brown Spots! URGENT! (Pics) + Rep

Hey guys, hope all is well.

I am currently in the middle of week 4 of flowering on 3 of my Sensi Skunk #1 Autos and began seeing brown spots on some of the leaves three days ago. They seem to have started up top and are working their way down, one plant has it worse than the other two. The spots look brown/rust colored and are looking dead, if I flip the leaf over, you can see where the spots are and the leaves look thin in those spots. They are mainly on the fan leaves, but I am seeing them on some of the "bud leaves" as well, the single finger leaves that come out of the buds. At first, I thought it was a calcium def so I fed with some CalMag Plus yesterday, and checking today, the problem seems to have gotten worse. It is not moving extremely fast, but it is definitely spreading. I have always ph'd the water that goes into the pots and it has always been between 6 and 7. This problem just popped up early this week, so I am not sure what to do really. I also have three NL Autos in the same room that are a few weeks behind the Skunks that are not showing any problems at all, which is making me think it is some kind of a deficiency. I checked for bugs good, didn't see any, and have had a NO Pest strip hanging for the past 5 days as a preventative measure. I plan on misting the Skunks with a weak Azamax solution when the lights go out tonight, just to cover all of the bases. I also tried getting the spots off the leaves, to make sure that it was not some kind of a fungus, and it is like it is "burned" into the leaf. I am just hoping they will hold out another three weeks or so, so if I have to chop early, it isn't this early, currently 100% of pistils are still white, good trichome production though. Here are some specs on my grow....

Sensi Skunk #1 Auto and NL Auto
FFOF Soil, top dressed with dolomite about one month ago (with added perilite) in 5 gallon buckets from the start.
600w HPS, Solis Tek ballast and Ushio Super HPS bulb, 125W Hydrofarm CFL for additional coverage, area is 5x4
Temps are 73-80 max, humidity has been high here lately, it fluctuates from 60-70%
Nutes : Advanced Nutrients, most of their Bigger Yields system, Sensi Bloom A,B ; Big Bud, Bud Candy, Nirvana, B-52, Voodoo Juice, Piranha, Rhino Skin (was free sample) - I have kept most of my feedings light, around 300ppm, with a max of 575ppm yesterday. I do feed, water, feed every other day, they are drinking a lot of water lately.
Water : Half tap (100ppm) and half distilled water, ph is always right around 6.5-6.7
These girls went into the soil June 14, 2013.

Anyways, here are the pics, I know they are under the HPS, and I will get better ones tomorrow, but please work with me until then, I really need some help getting pointed into the right direction, I cut off a few leaf tips that had the problem so you guys can really see what these spots look like without the HPS. I am also getting some curling leaves on the one with the most spots.... Please give me a hand here guys, +REP for all that try helping and I will add better pics tomorrow.
















Again, I am sorry for the pics with the HPS on, I was going to get some better ones today but my phone died, I will get more up asap tomorrow. I do have some AN Final Phase, if you guys think I am going to have to flush, please let me know what you guys think, even if it is just guesses at this point. I am praying that they make it another 2-3 weeks, so I don't feel too bad about chopping early....
Wish me luck guys, +rep for anyone who can help!!

I would guess a calcium def... So many nutes but no Calmag?!

They got their first dose of CalMag yesterday afternoon, 5ml/gallon. I don't know if it is too early to see any noticeable difference from the use of the CalMag, but the problem seems to be continuing from yesterday. I will keep updating this thread so others with similar problems can find some help, hopefully we can get it figured out. This grow has gone very smoothly up until this point, hopefully it isn't going to turn into a monster problem.

Thank you for responding, I really appreciate it. Keep the ideas coming guys!

Advanced sensi a and b has all the cal mag in it you need. I gotta ask what ml per liter are you running with the bases. Or per gallon how much base you use.

DO NOT PERFORM A SALT FLUSH WITH FINAL PHASE!

also how is run off when you water?

yesterday was actually the first sensi bloom feeding, i had used FF Tiger Bloom twice before and switched. my first feeding was 5ml/gal of each, A and B.

I honestly never have much runoff, i know my pot sizes pretty well. Everything I have evert put in has been ph between 6 and 7

^ If that's the case, I would water until you have sufficient run off to test. If the pH is significantly higher or lower, you may have salt buildup/nute lockout.

Auto's can be quite fussy when it comes to feeding! So do Sativa's and you have a cross breed that's supposed to be Indica dominate. That still could be a sativa dom pheno from the breeding as even "stabilized" seeds can show 3 diff pheno's from 1 plant's seed crop.
That being said;
I would say they are showing overfeeding problems.

Again auto's are FUSSY feeders!!! So let's go over a few things here.
1: Your growing in soil (GREAT) but that has some things you need to know.

A; When growing in soil, A problem OR remedy to the problem will take 5-7 days to show it's self! You should also know that the remedy will only express it's self on the following NEW GROWTH and not make the old damage repair it's self! And the problem you have is the MOST common one I see in growers trying auto's for the first time!

B; Soil growing auto's is the way to go,,,,,BUT to have the best result's. I would run organic tea's at low to moderate concentrations (It's always easier to add more then reduce).
Check out the organic tea formula "sticky" in the organic thread in the forum's here. There are some great formula's there that will help in the future
.
C; Ph, I don't need no stink'in Ph....Really in soil,,,you don't...the natural microbe's and such in the soil do the balancing,,,really,,,Adv. Nutrients, Hesi and many others are already Ph neutral.....That means they do the Ph balance on their own. Dirt grows like a higher Ph then hydro's but hydro's need alot of monitoring to keep in balance as they don't have those microbes and bacteria to do the work for it. In running synthetic's only on soil you MAY want to amend you're feeding to include some microbial/bacterial tea's to keep those VERY helpful things active and alive in your soil,,,,,,and if you do you'll find they really kick up you're growth in all stage's of growth and you may reduce you're nute concentrations some....There are some nice new microbial tea products now available at you're grow store if you don't want to "brew" you're own,,,,ask them about it.

2: High power synthetic's and auto's don't mix well, unless you've been at it a long time and have worked out what you're plants will tolerate. Most I've tested run from very little to real close to normal feeding. While some auto's can be fast to finish, I still prefer "normal" strains for the ease of growing and the yield. After all, you can still keep it "small" with reg seed strains.

3: Your plant will live and finish. If you back off your nutrient feeding it will help and they should taste just fine with the 5 days of flush to finish. ( I don't understand the "don't final flush" statement from Beuffer420!) In fact to help out your prob I would flush for 2 days and restart feeding after that to slow or stop your toxic troubles!!!!!!!!!

Now then....Advanced Nutrients.....sigh......THEY ARE A RIP OFF OF YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY!!!!! The company makes a good product BUT,,,,they have everything set out in ever increasing levels of cost that is set up to suck the cash from your wallet. I don't mean just the "beginner to expert" box set's. I mean the separate nute's them selves!
Example goes like this,,,They have 3 products, each with a different name. Each one in a smaller bottle and as the bottle gets smaller the price for that bottle gets ever BIGGER! Now the kicker to that is this -- THE PRODUCT IN THE BOTTLES ARE EXACTLY THE SAME THING IN EXACTLY THE SAME CONCENTRATION! THEN THEY HAVE THE BALLS TO SAY THAT EACH BOTTLE DOES SOMETHING DIFFERENT!
I'm sorry but I just don't give money to lying cheats!!!!!!

I can do the same damn thing with Botanicare SWEET unflavored and up that again buy using unsulfured molasses at the same time.

If you must run synthetic's I would recommend HESI for soil, CANNA for soil (not cheap) or HOUSE & GARDEN (but I don't care for this one in flower, but that's my choice as it does work).

Good luck and again, you're girl's will live, be calm, wash, restart with LESS nute, be patient and keep DETAILED note's on every grow and look at them often.

Thanks very much for your reply, very informative! This is my first auto run and they are tricky to get figured out. I have been using Piranha (myco) and Voodoo Juice (bacteria), and it seems to have increased nute uptake. You mentioned flushing for two days... should I do a full out two day flush or do you think just a "heavy watering" for two days would be sufficient?


The Skunks have been very uniform all the same pheno, and they all began showing this problem at the exact same time. the NL's seem very unstable, ive had 3 different phenos from 4 seeds, they are in their first week of flower and have not showed this issue yet. I have been keeping a very detailed log of this grow, so I can use for reference. doubt I will run autos again though...


If you don't mind guessing, how far out from harvest do you think I could be with the Skunks? tomorrow will be 7 weeks total and they started flowering around day 16-17. I just don't know much about autos and their life cycle, ive grown out normal skunk #1 and their flowering time took around 50-55 days.


Thanks again for your response, it was greatly informative, i will give you +rep when i get home to my desktop. Thanks again!

I would still run some organic tea's (or the new microbial tea products) as they will contain "active living" microbe's and bacteria's that do SO MUCH for you're soils.

To learn more about "Organic soils and whats in them and how that all works" I cannot recommend this book enuff,,,,the chapter on organic tea's alone, is worth the price!
Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web
It is available from Amazon and the book has been updated.

I would flush with Growtech or your fav. wash by adding till the liquid begins to flow out the bottom. Once a day, first thing at lights on. Then allow plants to dry out to the next feeding to avoid over watering. Oh yes and this wash water is what I would Ph to 6.7-6.8, cause you're going to be "restarting" feeding and the wash MAY move your soil Ph a bit by removing some of the soils "buffers".

Oh yeah, don't forget to reduce you're nute concentration by around 50% to start and increase if need be.

As for how long yet,,,,By your photo's ,, I would guess about 4 weeks of flower to go yet. + or - a week as it can be different for any auto. In the last 2 weeks you will see the Bulking up.

A little auto info here; Auto's thing is that they cross over to flower by them selves with no change in lighting exposure (18-6 to 12-12) But as a rule of thumb they will still average around 8 weeks of flower. You can achieve about the same thing in normal breeds (and size) by flowering a plant at about 8 to 10 inch's of height....and that's about the basis for doing a SOG grow.

I could get real technical,,but I try and keep it simple so it's easy to digest.

And thanks for the compliment.

Happy growing

Okay, I am about to go perform a flush with some distilled water, probably three gallons per pot, and on the last gallon I will add 1 tbsp of Fox Farm Big Bloom. Does this sound about right? I don't have the time to do 3x the pot size flush today, do you think two days of three gallons per pot will be sufficient to get them back on track?

It's the start of a ph issue IMO, the spots kind of narrow it down if not pest related. How much lime did you add a month ago?, realize that it's full effectiveness takes Weeks to develop, your soil may be running too alkaline(7+ph) and causing minor lockout. Yes soil is a self-buffer to a point, but if your tap is alkaline + adding lime is gonna cause problems.

Personally I would try lowering your water's ph or adding sulfur to your soil to balance it......good luck

Gotta agree and this is just me but if I get salt build up and have to do a salt flush I don't flush with just water. Ill mix a half strength nutrient mix and check runoff till its at the half strength I poured through. When the plant eats it on board excess I don't want there to be nothing in my medium. It's just what I have found to be helpful for me in my garden I'm not in soil though.

well the reason I added the lime is because around week 2 I checked my soil runoff and it measured around 5 or below, so I top dressed with lime on every plant. I'm confused though because only the three skunks over halfway through flower are showing this, the NL's look perfect and they all got the same treatment. I just flushed with 4 gallons of 6.3 distilled water with half strength big bloom on the last gallon. the water coming out was clear. I'm about to upload new pics from today without the hps on. If you guys don't mind checking them out here soon, I'd appreciate it. The spots still seem to be spreading today, they are working their way down the plant, starting to get worried that I'm going to lose them here at the end. super bummed.


I top dressed about 1 cup of lime into each 5 gallon bucket.

Okay guys. Here are the pics from today. Like I said, I flushed with 4 gallons of water per pot, I know I should have used more but that was all I had, and had time for tonight, if I need to, I will do it again the day after tomorrow. The runoff was finally clear after the last gallon and the pH of the water I flushed with was 6.4pH...














^This last one is the worst one, the spots are accompanied by curling leaves, which honestly may be due to slight over watering, because it does not drink as fast as her sisters, so I am going to let it dry out after this flush I just performed, the others dry out real quick. I also noticed some purple stems towards the top on the Skunks, now I saw a few purple stripes on the stems while they were in veg but have not really seen them since then, so that makes me think of a possible P def.?

So, do you guys think there is any way in hell that any of these will make it another 3 weeks or so, until they are ready to harvest? I am praying they do....
Let me know what you guys think, thanks very much for all of the help fellas!

the clawing is too much (N)
i usually water hard or flush depending on how many feedings i gave in veg
then no (N) after the first week of flowers showing real flower not the 14- 21 day / 5th node preflower
cal mag is easy to spot is how i remember it
possibly cal mag could of been drops of water do you use a spray bottle ?
if you where to use dolomite lime / garden lime when you make your pots up then ph would be no problem and cal/mag would be handled
in one whack

new question
i have to ask
is this your first grow ?

the fan leaves fall off as they finish up
when the fans yellow and fall off or you can touch them and fall off you have a week or two until its in its prime

No, this is my first Indoor, Auto grow, but not my first grow. It has been a few years though, always had grown in a greenhouse with all organic nutes. I actually did spray them down last night with Azamax to be safe, but I don't think this was all caused by that, they had 6 hours before lights on and the problem had manifested a day or two before. I had used FFOF in the past in my greenhouse and never checked pH and never had a problem with it. So that was the way I went into this, and at around week 2 i checked my runoff and it read 5.0 and below on pretty much all of them, I freaked out and top dressed with about a cup of dolomite lime, and that has been about a month ago now. I definetly will mix lime in from the get go from now on, but I was not aware of Fox farms recent QC issue, with acidic soil, its a pretty widespread problem, so I just kept rollin like normal.

honestly as late into flower as you are
theres not a whole lot you can do in the week or so before flush
that is if you flush for 2 weeks
cal mag is slow to remedy
(p) and (k) would be useful but like i said your just going to flush it back out
you could use some molasses i use honey they seem to like it

okay will do. will they still mature correctly? I know it will reduce yield some, but will they actually ripen correctly. I've never had an issue this late in flowering before. I will update tomorrow how the first flush went.