What is the (main) problem?

JayBudd said:

Thanks, Aussie

I didnt find a good place where I could get the stuff on a weekend nearby, so I ordered it online. It could be here in two days I hope ... or Ill buy it here by then.
Will also check out the soil kit
(Im afraid those two poor ladies are dead ... even smell weirdly dry)

Hydro..
My first attempts to diagnose were using articles like this one.
Unfortunately, I cant pinpoint the root cause - the evidence seems conflicting or overlapping to me.. : /
If you see a clear suspect, your input would be much welcome ; )

Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that. I feel it's pretty safe to say, don't give anything, until you know the pH of your soil itself. Not even water if you are not positive it needs it.
I might've been wrong about you overwatering in the beginning. For that I'm sorry and apologize.
Reality is, you still need to be aware of the possibility, it may have been a combination of overwatering. As well as the pk13/14 + liquid lime.
(Be ready to flush that PK crap out, if your other ones start to take a dive)

This chart is really handy, for when you get a more accurate read of pH in the soil. Like the method I suggested.
All your hydro probe is testing in reality, are the dissolved solids in your water. Besides testing straight water, or hydro, those probes are useless.
You want to know, what your soil is reading itself. That's why it's important to make a paste with the soil. Measuring the waste ph is almost useless, for those reasons. Because it's just a wild guess.
And at the end of the day, your best guess is all you have to go by.



This should help you try to wrap your head around what's possible. If you notice on the chart. About 6.5 is right about where you want to be. It will fluctuate a little. (that's normal)
Just remember the major anions on that chart, like phosphorus, sulphur and nitrate / nitrogen. Because those are what's going to cause a drop in pH and lock other nutrients like calcium, magnesium and potassium out.
Especially if overwatering and overfert is present as well. Plus they encourage anaerobic activity. Rich organic matter is loaded with it.

If you're having trouble diagnosing by your leaf symptoms, because they all look the damn same. (they always do) Then check your soil's pH and refer to the chart. (And your other data like ferts / nutrient / amendments / watering routine)

A good rule of thumb to go by is, nitrogen deficiency is the #1 sign of a healthy garden!

Good luck and hope the others hang in there.

So... just to report as promised...
I havent had a chance to do anything on monday, had to wait till yesterday.
So third day after the flush.

Unfortunately, the three sick plants were confirmed dead at that point.

The rest was quite well, but showing more spots, etc.
So I finally gave them the bio feeding (biobizz fish, halfdose and quater dose of bio bloom)
The pots were flushed very thoroughly the three days ago, so I think all the PK was gone
(I believe that the plants' progress now pointed to K def)
They look a bit better now. Will see in a few more days.
Honestly, Im now really mostly looking forward to the "clean slate" new grow after this : )

I couldnt even properly measure the pH, Im afraid.
Only got a soil test with drops ... mix soil with water, then the drops, stir it, compare color.
Well... surprise! The color is always brown-black, just as the soil! Who would have guessed? : D
I followed the instructions precisely, even tried very little soil, compared to the recommendation.
Maybe the instructions are a bad translation (does happen in here : )
Anyway... however it is, I couldnt tell the ph.
Given up a bit at this point - lets see how they do after the feeding.
Thanks again for your input and good luck with your own gardens!

So I think I keep seeing new signs of deficiencies, but also nute burn.
Its just two days since I gave the feeding though..
So I again, Im not sure what to do ... to feed or not to feed.. : D
Maybe only feed some specific nutrients?
Some leaves still seem to me like cal/mag def (or possibly manganese?), some as... phosphorus def?
Any other suspects?
Could any of it also be a sign of light burn?

I guess Ill try sloooowly feeding the nutes mentioned above.
Suggestions welcome, of course ; )

(Sorry about the photo with led on ... it just turned out to better focused : D .. Im now away from the plants till tomorrow..)

Same as before. Overfertilized or locked out, or both.
Also likely overwatered. (there's still a soggy patch on top your pot, 2 days after watering)

Just those two things combined. With you trying to chase some deficiency you think you can see, which mightn't even exist, is making your problem even worse.

Already suggested it before, but i'll suggest it once more.
I would lime your top soil with dolomite lime. (not liquid lime) And only a light dusting.
I would mulch the top. That'll add organic matter and keep your top soil moist. (The rim and edges won't dry out like that)
Allowing more time between watering. In turn allowing for more aeration to the roots.
I would stop giving them nutrient and only give plain water, until they are getting better. With ample waste runoff every time .

When you are confident it's time to fertilize, use something more balanced. Get as close to even NPK as you can. Getting rid of any bloom booster is probably a good start.
I can't find any NPK values to your biobizz products online. I suggest you post it here. It's handy information to know.
Also just for the biobizz fish, seems you need only 2-5mL / Litre water. So how have you measuring this out?
Sounds like strong stuff!

You're loving them too much. I'm certain of it.
Anyway best of luck. Hope you get something out of them.
Peace.

Yeah... maybe I just think I see the deficiencies..
Ill try as you suggest.

They probably dont drink much.
When I watered those two days ago, there was barely any runoff
(You say to have ample runoff, but that they seem overwatered at the same time)

Not sure about the NPK - will have a look tomorrow.
I was measuring with a 5ml syringe - only gave half the recommended dose of fish.

Ill also try the soil ph again.
Go against the instructions - I think the translation is full of crap : )

Yep.. its a love/hate relationship, actually : D
But I can understand that I may have been trying too hard to squeeze something out of them

Cheers

Just stick with it mate. Your biggest battle is giving the plants enough of your own patience. And the time for them to repair.
There is no quick fix here. It will not get better after 2 days.

Right there, in my very honest opinion is your (main) problem. Lack of adequate aeration / drainage.
Which in turn is causing an accumulation of salts in the form of fertilizer / nutrient. (soil is like a sponge) Ultimately leading to deficiency due to lockout. While potentially causing a drop in soil ph as well. (overwatering does this, ontop of salt accumulation)
Realize overwatering isn't a measure of how much water you give them. Or the frequency of when you do it.
It's how continuously wet the medium is staying. It's a lack of aeration and drainage. That is all overwatering is. Simple as that.

The most common way new growers kill their plants is by overwatering and overfert at the same time. Using a salt based fertilizer, with inadequate aeration drainage + watering frequently without ample waste runoff, is the #1 way growers do it.
Typically,
Plant looks hungry, thirsty, dry and deficient in several things.
Water and add fertilizer, but the deficiency keeps getting worse.
So you try and correct a specific deficiency by what you can see. There's maybe a very brief period of what appears to be improvement, but the same symptoms keep showing.
Sound familiar?

It's important to understand what's in your nutrient. You have to keep a mental note and write it down if necessary.
For example, do your nutrient bottles contain adequate amounts of calcium and magnesium? (calcium especially)
Your waste ph was very low, so I assume the soil is too. That's why i also suggested dolomite lime. Because besides helping neutralize the soil, it'll also help with nutrient absorption. The soil might be depleted in lime.
It is also wise to have a good idea of your soil ph before you lime. So you don't overdo it. (my own best guess is you need to raise it)

Soil is all about patience and time. Can't emphasise that enough.

None the less, i wish you all the best figuring your main problem out.
Have a good 1.

Also, if you must check the soil ph, use a soil specific kit. Has to be soil specific.
Other option is an expensive probe.
Otherwise forget about it and just guess. Your own guess is honestly probably a lot better than some hydro probe, or fish tank drops.

Edit: this is the type of kit I recommend. I'm not familiar with the type you're describing. It doesn't sound accurate.

Thanks for all the tips and info!

Just reporting back with the new generation : )
(Those two ladies made it to harvest and are quite a nice smoke, all things considered)


This time, Im running Northern Lights Auto from Royal Queen.
Biobizz lightmix soil and biobizz fertilizers (lower than recommended)

On the photos, they are about 16 days after first breaking through soil.
In the beginning, I loved how quickly they are growing.
Even now, I believe they are well developped for their age - at least compared to what I got in the past ; )

Problem is, they are staying way too short.
For their number of nodes, Id expect them to be at least double this size. Or not?
This foliage is so thick that it seems uneffective to me .. at least for indoor.
Most leaves are covered by the top layer.
(Im afraid of defoliating too early .. and they seem short and thick for foolproof use of LST)

The lower foliage even lies on the soil, which is not nice while watering.
And its coliding with the sides of the pots, getting bent, etc.

Its starting to worry me.
What do you guys think about it?

I thought maybe my light was too low. Moved it upwards since.
Admittedly, it was a bit lower than manual recommends for seedlings.

Other then the shortness, I love how booming they are.
Except an occasional spot on leave (nothing to worry about yet, I hope), they seem to be enjoying life : )
(Knock on wood)

Thanks again for all the advice, past and future