Which buchner and why? ISO vs Ethanol?

I'm looking at different buchner filters for a Vigreux distillation setup via g$420's iso extract method and noticed two styles:




Now the size of the plates are different, I'm leaning towards the 90mm because it takes standard filters, but the fact that you can't see the holes on the 2nd one makes me wonder why the difference?

Secondly I'm wondering why iso seems like such a popular choice, is it a better solvent than Ethanol at equivalent strength?

The first type of funnel is designed to have filter paper on top while the second does not require it. I use the second type and put a layer of Diatomaceous earth on top. When the waxes precipitate out they tend to an emulsion that does not filter easily. I find using diatomaceous earth stops the filtration from clogging. IT is available on amazon or health store.

People use isopropyl because it is easier to get hold of than ethanol. I use 95% ethanol (everclear). I prefer it because isopropyl alcohol can be toxic and I would rather not risk having it in my final product.

I would go with the first type, easier to clean. I have the second and I wouldn't even think of using it without filters, unless you plan on buying a new one every couple runs as the porous stone is impossible to clean. The biggest problem I have had with my buchner (which again is the second, porous stone one) is finding filters that fit properly. I eventually bought one size larger filters (90mm) and sat down one afternoon with a drafters compass and cut them down to fit my buchner properly.

Thanks for all of the info, that helps explain the difference. @budchemist I was planning on using ethanol for the same reason but wondered why so many people used the iso, I figure with ethanol you can also make edibles (if you decarb it, of course) and why have a poison if you don't need to? I noticed the boiling points were slightly different. Some people say that methanol is slightly more polar but most admit that even after evaporation that there is some MeOH left over (although lower than the toxicity level).

@canadian1969 I do notice how that type of waxy emulsion sometimes doesn't come off even when soaking something in isopropyl. Where it is mostly wax I guess you could make it easier by heating it up slightly but I could see where cleaning it would be challenging.

I wonder if the diatomaceous earth (I've used some in gardening) is a better filter than filter paper. I see some people use aluminum oxide in hopes that it will better filter some of the chlorophyll.

I'm glad I found this forum and g$420's tek, I used to spend a lot of time on another forum but it was hard to find unbiased information and everybody seemed so polar. I really appreciate the responses, I plan on ordering the aspirator and the buchner tomorrow so I can do a test run. That Chinese guy and one of his competitors seem to have the best deals on decent glass and I feel like they are catering to us

As noted, 99% Isopropyl is cheaper and easier to obtain in some places. We use Ethanol for the reasons already given.

When using a paper filter, you can extend the life and speed up the filtration using a small paint brush and brushing the filter surface to remove the cake during the filtration operation.

You can use aluminum oxide, silica glass beads, diatomaceous earth, bentonite clay, et al to protect glass filters. You can also clean them a NaOH solution.

I get my lab glass off ebay or aliexpress. I use the Buchner as a primary filter for my ISO, I heat purge , no vacuum and I have never had an issue with residuals. I pulled the boxes of filters out to get the micron reading off them , but it is all in Chinese, lol. I know I bought the finest possible at the time. I use fractional distillation to recapture the solvent, which reduces the overall volume of solvent to later evap/purge and decarbs in the process. I have done the same process with home made 70-80% ethanol (brewed with sugar and turbo yeast, then distilled and checked with an alcohol meter, huge PITA btw. but everclear isn't available in my Province), but as expected it pulls a lot of water solubles. UV treatment clears the green out and doesn't really seem to reduce potency, at least not that I could detect). ISO is cheap , readily available and 99%. With the ISO Its certainly well below human detection levels. If you are purging thoroughly, or better yet with a vacuum chamber, its not a concern. imo

My secondary filter is through a large 500ml syringe with .22 micron syringe filters. The Buckner I use only to filter out the heavy stuff. I am of the opinion that no matter what you put in that porous stone type Buchner its going to clog it up and there is no way to back pressure wash them that I can figure out. The next Buchner I buy will be like the first one you posted. With this outdoor harvest and the popularity of edibles I am going to try some crockpot/cooking oil extractions as the above process is enormously time consuming. I think I will still use the Buchner for filtration, then right into recipes or jarred for later use. Although I have yet to try filtering cooking oil.

mainesquirrel said:

I'm looking at different buchner filters for a Vigreux distillation setup via g$420's iso extract method and noticed two styles:

Now the size of the plates are different, I'm leaning towards the 90mm because it takes standard filters, but the fact that you can't see the holes on the 2nd one makes me wonder why the difference?

Secondly I'm wondering why iso seems like such a popular choice, is it a better solvent than Ethanol at equivalent strength?

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I use the second funnel with a paper filter and DE.I make a 1/2" pad by mixing ethanol with DE.I make another pad on top of the DE with carbon,which is super fine material to work with.that is almost impossible to remove out of my filter frit without a lab oven or 'pirahna' mix.as long as your DE pad is on point(while using a paper filter)you stand a better chance of not clogging up your frit with material.

Buy local,check out their site.good people.

2nd one is what I use, x5. Medium frit. Use alumnium oxide for winterization. Celite (DE) is a great filter aide, but celite/DE works on color, not winterizing.

Also acetone is a bad ass glass cleaner! Wear PPE please

DemonTrich said:

2nd one is what I use, x5. Medium frit. Use alumnium oxide for winterization. Celite (DE) is a great filter aide, but celite/DE works on color, not winterizing.

Also acetone is a bad ass glass cleaner! Wear PPE please

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Interesting about the aluminum oxide.
Never considered as an option but it makes sense. Do you use it like a mini chromatography column?

DemonTrich said:

2nd one is what I use, x5. Medium frit. Use alumnium oxide for winterization. Celite (DE) is a great filter aide, but celite/DE works on color, not winterizing.

Also acetone is a bad ass glass cleaner! Wear PPE please

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Celite works for winterizing and not on removing chlorophyll. It does work to improve clarity.
Some formulations of celite are used for removing fats wax and moisture from winterized bio fuels.

To add to the iso vs ethanol discussion I noticed this pertinent post:

eugeneoregon said:

Getting rid of chlorophyll is something I do monthly for my own personal med. It is pretty simple but I start with raw crude and all solvents are purged before.

Take some rubbing alcohol at 70/30 isopropyl alcohol to water and put your compound into it. Then bring the solution to a low boil and boil the compound. As you boil the isopropyl alcohol will deplete and water will become dominant. You will see then that the oil is mostly just rolling around in water. The water will be milk white if terpenes are present. Isopropyl alcohol forms an azeotrope with water so will not be boiled away completely. This water and alcohol will swell the gunk including the green chlorophyll stuff. Furthermore there is a bunch of DNA that gets extracted as a rule and is lumped into a category called "waxes". Isopropyl alcohol is the only alcohol that will not disolve those DNA strands (long and spindly white gunk) and it is for this reason that labs analyzing DNA use isopropyl alcohol to recover DNA. So the bonus here too is that any DNA if present (there is a lot present in crude). All alcohols will densture DNA (it unwinds the helix strand of the DNA) but only isopropyl alcohol will leave them alone and undisolved so they can be then filtered as described.Then redisolve it all in 70/30 rubbing alcohol at room temp.

Then put a few inches of aluminum oxide 220-240 grit into a Buchner funnel and prewet it with water. Then pull the solution through the prewetted aluminum oxide. The green chlorophyll and a BUNCH of "waxes" will not be able to pass the top of the aluminum oxide.

This will remove the chlorophyll(s). I have done this now for a few years on the raw crude I obtain for personal use.

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It would be interesting to do comparison runs with iso -> ethanol (first run iso then vac and clean with ethanol) vs a straight ethanol run. How much percent mass could dissolved DNA be?

@DemonTrich Can you re-use the aluminum oxide by cleaning it out vs trashing it? I'm guessing with acetone it's no trouble getting the 'frit' of the buchner cleaned out?

@gwpharms I wonder which filtering agent works best and which is most economical?

You guys have such great info, I had no idea there was a local ethanol distillery a few hours away. Starting with almost pure ethanol seems strong and since you can reuse it then its worth the investment. I'm operating on a budget and this is for my own medical need so I've gotta be frugal.

No, it's so cheap why would you?

If it gets a layer of lipids and waxes, gently remove top layer with a spoon.
Done


Fuck ISO!! ONLY use iso for cleaning up messes, or for edibles or topicals, never smoking

budchemist said:

Interesting about the aluminum oxide.
Never considered as an option but it makes sense. Do you use it like a mini chromatography column?

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Ihave 5 or 6 600ml/2000ml buchner/emeril flask setups I use for filtering, and 2 welch diaphram pumps I use

Deschem on eBay
I picked up a 2l funnel and 5l flask for like 120

Use a bed of celite on top of the frit so that the crude never touches the frit.

If you use carbon in your wash do not allow the carbon to directly touch the frit.

You can find celite 545 in bulk on eBay I think I paid like 50 bucks for 10lbs or some shit.

Extractohol 200 proof is cheaper than culinarysolvent. Use coupon code PC100 for 10% off it ends up like 40 bucks cheaper for 5 gals shipped.

Look for a panda spinner drier. In combination with duda diesel filter bags you can reclaim 95 percent of your etoh using it as a centrifuge.

p0opstlnksal0t said:

Deschem on eBay
I picked up a 2l funnel and 5l flask for like 120

Use a bed of celite on top of the frit so that the crude never touches the frit.

If you use carbon in your wash do not allow the carbon to directly touch the frit.

You can find celite 545 in bulk on eBay I think I paid like 50 bucks for 10lbs or some shit.

Extractohol 200 proof is cheaper than culinarysolvent. Use coupon code PC100 for 10% off it ends up like 40 bucks cheaper for 5 gals shipped.

Look for a panda spinner drier. In combination with duda diesel filter bags you can reclaim 95 percent of your etoh using it as a centrifuge.

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Culinary solvent is from his home state.why not shop local?
It's also a good idea to use the paper filter under the de if you're using carbon.a little bit of carbon will fuck up a frit real proper.

Filter paper on bottom of de is not a good idea. It will never seal since the Chinese buchners are not precision. De or celite directly on top of frit is best, then a filter paper on top of the bed to prevent disturbance of the bed via pouring. Culinary solvent is in my home state too, which makes it more expensive when they hit you with Maine tax.

Another option is 710spirits. They use n-heptane to denature it which is easy as balls to remove. This shit is far cheaper than the regulated and taxed ethanol

p0opstlnksal0t said:

Filter paper on bottom of de is not a good idea. It will never seal since the Chinese buchners are not precision. De or celite directly on top of frit is best, then a filter paper on top of the bed to prevent disturbance of the bed via pouring. Culinary solvent is in my home state too, which makes it more expensive when they hit you with Maine tax.

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I know it's your homestate that's why I was a bit disappointed in your suggestion to shop elsewhere.culinary solvent is a family run business and a damn fine product.
As far as filter paper causing problems,never has that problem and my glass is from laboy.

40 dollars is 40 dollars. It's not.like im opting for Chinese etoh here. Maine is too far taxed and regulated for me to care about keeping money in this state. "Open for business" lmao that's a joke of a motto if I ever heard one.

natureboygrower said:

I know it's your homestate that's why I was a bit disappointed in your suggestion to shop elsewhere.culinary solvent is a family run business and a damn fine product.
As far as filter paper causing problems,never has that problem and my glass is from laboy.

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p0opstlnksal0t said:

40 dollars is 40 dollars. It's not.like im opting for Chinese etoh here. Maine is too far taxed and regulated for me to care about keeping money in this state. "Open for business" lmao that's a joke of a motto if I ever heard one.

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Welcome to Maine.beats Texas, right? Think op needs 5 gallons of Etoh for personal?