Why do people say seeds from hermies are unreliable?

WeedKillsBrainCells

Well-Known Member
I mean, stress induced ones. If you have seeds with great genetics, like from most seedbanks, and you light stress it, ph stress it, or whatever - to make it hermie, why would the seeds then be "so much" more likely to hermie? I'm definitely not an expert but if your plant was flowering perfectly up until your deliberate acts, why wouldnt its seeds do the same? If an environmental factor caused it to hermie, then why would that be genetic? Correct me if im wrong of course but im just learning and it seems some people stigmatize hermie seeds

Also why does the rodelization method produce feminized seeds? And the same question above applies to rodelization, will the pollen from that be "hermie-prone"?
 

roidrage152

Active Member
If you stress a plant by environmental means into producing seeds, you are inherently exploiting that particular weakness in the genetics, creating seeds vulnerable to the same type of environmental stress. One of the keys to a good genetic strain is the ability to tolerate deviation from what would be considered perfect conditions and still produce a good end product. Does sound kind of like cyclical logic (illogic) to me as well, but that's my understanding.

Rodelization seems like a reasonable theory to me. I think the key factor is in the descriptions of the methods. By my definition a "hermie" is a male and female plant in one. Rodelization occurs when a female fertilizes herself. I'm not sure what that difference is on a biological level, but that's the explanation as I understand it.

I'm not exactly sure because there are so many articles and explanations regarding feminized seeds, including those that think the idea is a myth :p. But one idea of properly feminized seeds is that they are 100% female seeds, and will produce only female plants. When a male plant occurs it is in fact in that case actually a hermie. If it was properly feminized then the resulting plant would have to be female, but it just happened to grow male parts, as some plants do under certain conditions.

I confuse myself thinking about this stuff...
 

WeedKillsBrainCells

Well-Known Member
If you stress a plant by environmental means into producing seeds, you are inherently exploiting that particular weakness in the genetics, creating seeds vulnerable to the same type of environmental stress. One of the keys to a good genetic strain is the ability to tolerate deviation from what would be considered perfect conditions and still produce a good end product. Does sound kind of like cyclical logic (illogic) to me as well, but that's my understanding.

Rodelization seems like a reasonable theory to me. I think the key factor is in the descriptions of the methods. By my definition a "hermie" is a male and female plant in one. Rodelization occurs when a female fertilizes herself. I'm not sure what that difference is on a biological level, but that's the explanation as I understand it.

I'm not exactly sure because there are so many articles and explanations regarding feminized seeds, including those that think the idea is a myth :p. But one idea of properly feminized seeds is that they are 100% female seeds, and will produce only female plants. When a male plant occurs it is in fact in that case actually a hermie. If it was properly feminized then the resulting plant would have to be female, but it just happened to grow male parts, as some plants do under certain conditions.

I confuse myself thinking about this stuff...
yeah i confuse myself too. thanks for the read
 

thechemist310

Active Member
I may be proving or disproving this theory within the next year...

I just found out my ladies are growing seeds. All my plants were fiminized and I never even saw the nuts coming. I'm planning to use the seeds at some point an see how it goes.
 

Filthy Phil

Well-Known Member
Yeah, you guys are correct. They will either be all females or all females and some herms...

The reasoning is as said befor, except you only increase the likelihood that its offspring will have sensitivities, it is certainly no guarantee. Shit...regular breeding has hermies too, just to a lesser degree

I have grown out feminized seeds of my own making befor, never had a problem, they were all lovely. And besides, all you need is the right pheno to mother out from your cross so even if a bunch do have issues, just mother out the best one...
 

WeedKillsBrainCells

Well-Known Member
Yeah, you guys are correct. They will either be all females or all females and some herms...

The reasoning is as said befor, except you only increase the likelihood that its offspring will have sensitivities, it is certainly no guarantee. Shit...regular breeding has hermies too, just to a lesser degree

I have grown out feminized seeds of my own making befor, never had a problem, they were all lovely. And besides, all you need is the right pheno to mother out from your cross so even if a bunch do have issues, just mother out the best one...
I suppose I just cant help thinking that the seeds produced are gonna have the exact same hermie tendency as the mother, give or take some randomness that comes with breeding.

I understand that if you have a room of 8 plants, and 7 of them turn out fine but one hermies, and theyre all under the same conditions, then that 1 plant is gonna have seeds that are more likely to hermie than the other 7. But if you have a fairly reliable strain or at least from a seedbank and you hermie it, youre saying itll carry a likelihood of hermieing more so than seeds that were produced naturally? purely because of the hermieing process?

i am a wishful thinker and maybe a dog with a bone i apologize for over curiousity
I may be proving or disproving this theory within the next year...

I just found out my ladies are growing seeds. All my plants were fiminized and I never even saw the nuts coming. I'm planning to use the seeds at some point an see how it goes.
Make sure to keep me updated on that, this really interests me. I have a white widow 2 weeks til harvest and am thinking of using the rodelization method (that i only recently discovered luckily) to make pollen, as I dont have any other way of carrying on this strain.
 

roidrage152

Active Member
I suppose I just cant help thinking that the seeds produced are gonna have the exact same hermie tendency as the mother, give or take some randomness that comes with breeding.

I understand that if you have a room of 8 plants, and 7 of them turn out fine but one hermies, and theyre all under the same conditions, then that 1 plant is gonna have seeds that are more likely to hermie than the other 7. But if you have a fairly reliable strain or at least from a seedbank and you hermie it, youre saying itll carry a likelihood of hermieing more so than seeds that were produced naturally? purely because of the hermieing process?

i am a wishful thinker and maybe a dog with a bone i apologize for over curiousity


Make sure to keep me updated on that, this really interests me. I have a white widow 2 weeks til harvest and am thinking of using the rodelization method (that i only recently discovered luckily) to make pollen, as I dont have any other way of carrying on this strain.
Why don't u clone it?
 

bamfrivet

Well-Known Member
Last grow I had 6 purple bubba kush seeds that i grew out. They all turned out female, or at least I thought they did. 2 of my plants (in different parts of the room seeded themselves. I am growing out one of the seeds from my hermie this grow, along with a couple other strains. We'll see how well hermie seeds do, lol. If I get another hermie im not to worried, I don't mind free seeds that will produce free seeds in the future. The smoke from the hermies was still great, so Im not gonna complain.
 

thechemist310

Active Member
Last grow I had 6 purple bubba kush seeds that i grew out. They all turned out female, or at least I thought they did. 2 of my plants (in different parts of the room seeded themselves. I am growing out one of the seeds from my hermie this grow, along with a couple other strains. We'll see how well hermie seeds do, lol. If I get another hermie im not to worried, I don't mind free seeds that will produce free seeds in the future. The smoke from the hermies was still great, so Im not gonna complain.
I agree, except it sucks that a plant will concentrate it's nutrients and energy on the seeds so the flowers suffer.
 

pandan

Active Member
Look it really depends on what you call ruined or not. You are passing on DNA traits though so any trait the parent stock is showing has a likely hood of being expressed in the seed. Feminised seeds that company's sell are created by using a poisonous chemical that reacts with the genetics of the mother plants re-productive organs to create "more daughter cells" (so says the Marijuana Botany book) and thereby increase the chance of female offspring. The process could lead to problems but i've grown fem seeds out that are fine so i know they arent as bad as some people make out (saying stupid shit like they are rip off and shouldn't be sold).

Another problem with growing the seed is you have to think about what generation and who the parents are. If its randomly happening by chance in your grow you wont know if plant 1 is hermie and both the mum and the dad of the seed or if plant 1 is hermie BUT was pollinated by hermie plant 2.
Know this: If you get a 2 true breds, a mother and a father, the first seed is called F1. A lot of seeds companies sell these unstable F1 seeds. If you get 2 F1 of the same parents and breed them to get a F2, you may get a few more favourable plants but by this stage you will see a lot more pheno types. This is because all the recessive traits are showing up in higher percentages. By the time you cross 2 F2 seeds together to get a F3 you have a massive mess of genetics and the recessive and negatives genes will be there in such high numbers the resulting seeds will be much worse than the parent stock. By that stage you will be digging through your seeds to find one that isn't shit- not digging through it to find the golden one. If you inbreed the seeds (as in 2 different parents but then self pollination from there on) you will see this effect but not as much as if you have multiple family lines of random pollination happening at the same time- which is exactly what will happen if you start with 2 or more different strains in your grow to begin with and collect the randomly generated seeds each generation.
This still rings very true if you only pick the best looking plants to take seeds from each time.

Read this in proper detail in the Marijuana Botany book you can find online.

Bottom line is you can do crosses of true bred easily for a generation or two and maybe even hybrids but you cant do it in the long term or maybe even medium or you'll end up with genetic rubbish which has lots of mutation and bad traits and even less potency than the original parents. So just buy seeds from reputable breeders or better yet, take cuttings and keep mothers so if you want to grow a particular expression of a strain (as in say i like this plant i want it again, since a seed of it wont be identical even if it self pollinates) then you have a copy of the genetics ready to plant.
 

pandan

Active Member
Right so about the hermie bit you don't know if it hermed because of genetics or from stress. If it is genetic you will indeed pass on this trait to the seed- if the plant inbred with itself the trait will be almost certain in the seed.

If it hermed from stress then the dna passed on to the child from the mum (but not the father...unless it is also the father...or if the father is herm too...) will be damaged more likely to carry damaged genetic traits. This could be to be feminised, it could be mutation, it's up to chance what the garbled genetics will give you.

More importantly look at my last post or read the marijauana botany guide to see how not knowing the parent lines and random cross breeding of unstable strains gives you a random chance of having good or bad for the first seeds you get but will only give you rubbish and uncertainty in anything further than the short term.
 
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