Young plants with yellow leaves and black patches

Maoriweedz · Jul 29, 2011

i have two plants of unknown strain, they are both growing realy slowly, one is twice the size and age as the other.
The larger one is 7/8 weeks old and was in a hydro system in perlite medium and i tried transplanting it to hydroton and stuffed it, i quickly put it in a potting mix and in a pot and it has slowly come back to life, now it has green leaves all through and it has started getting yellow leaves, this plant should be massive but it is tiny and short with droopy, crispy and yellow leaves.

My small plant is about 4 weeks old, i started it in a jiffy pellet and i placed the pellet into potting mix at about 2weeks old when the roots had popped out of the bottom and sides, i had been watering PH adjusted water every two days, i went to straight water from the tap on both plants this week thinking adjusting ph may be a problem, i come home from work today and the yellow leaves now have black patches on the centre of them and are curling downwards. can anyone help? i havnt been giving them nutes because the potting mix bag said "slow release fertilizer" on the side, but i have some hydro nutes still if needed,
why arnt my leaves ever standing tall and strate, why arnt they green and what are the black patches??? check my pics

my setup:
small cupboard
3x cool white 28w fluro tubes
1x warm white 18w fluro tube
3x 12v computer fan at the top (exhaust)
1x 12v computer fan at bottom (intake)
18/6 hours
temp light on: 25-29c (68-82F)
temp light off: 18-21c (62-65F)

symbiote420 · Jul 29, 2011

Judging by your stems and the overall looks of the plants I'd say a pH problem, alot of different nute def. I see N,P,K, and Ca are a few, and did you check your tap waters pH? did it sit 24-48 hrs. before using? Check the pH and try not to use soils with time released nutes added if you can. I'd flush with some distilled water then check the runoff again.

Kingrow1 · Jul 29, 2011

There is so much wrong it would be better to start over again. Bad overwatering, soil is not right in the first place either and plants look really bad and in need of transplant to right conditions.

Sorry if i sound harsh as im not trying to be, they got a lot of watering problems to start with. Ph'ing water and ppm checking to make sure tap water is between 150ppm and 200ppm to start with then water and allow the soil to dry inbetween, water the roots and soil round them not the whole pot at first so soil dries within a few days promoting rooting.

Soil seems like the wrong type with slow release ferts in, no one single thing will sort this out not really except transplanting but they are already in big pots. Sorry dude.

Kingrow1 · Jul 29, 2011

Water when in soil should be between 150 and 200ppm to allow there to be plenty of cal/mag.

Maoriweedz · Jul 29, 2011

Yeah I checked ph in the tap water it was around 10 I was changing it to 7 using a digital meter, I also had a meter that is placed into the soil, when I use that it says the ph is above 8 (dual only shows 8-4)... I wasnt letting the water sit tho...why should I do that?
as the plants still in the jiffy it wouldn't hurt it to much to transplant now, (I just moved them into bigger puts before I took those photos) coz the ball of the roots will be inside it hopefully, I have that sterilised perlite soil medium still should I transplant it into a pot of that and feed them nutes in the water?
What is the black marks?
Thanks

Maoriweedz · Jul 29, 2011

I also have not ben checking ppm, how do I do that?

Thanks for helping guys

Kingrow1 · Jul 29, 2011

Buy a digital ppm/ec meter or call your water company and ask.

symbiote420 · Jul 29, 2011

Maoriweedz said:
Yeah I checked ph in the tap water it was around 10 I was changing it to 7 using a digital meter, I also had a meter that is placed into the soil, when I use that it says the ph is above 8 (dual only shows 8-4)... I wasnt letting the water sit tho...why should I do that?
as the plants still in the jiffy it wouldn't hurt it to much to transplant now, (I just moved them into bigger puts before I took those photos) coz the ball of the roots will be inside it hopefully, I have that sterilised perlite soil medium still should I transplant it into a pot of that and feed them nutes in the water?
What is the black marks?
Thanks

WOW!!! 10.......you don't even need to drink that shit, and @ 8 in the soil all of your nutes are locked out, it needs to be around 6.0 to 7.0 for the nutes to become available to the plant again. You should let it sit because the water co. treats the water with different gases like chlorine and flouride that needs to evaporate out of it before you use it because they can kill the plants when large amounts are present in the water ( takes about 24-48 hrs.)
I'd transplant them, but I'd advise you to go real light on the fertilizer like a 1/4 dose, the roots are in a f'd up state right now give them some time to get it together, a good foliar spray might jump start their recovery, if you got some seaweed or compost tea I'd use that!
The black spots look to me like some form of P def.

blackxs · Jul 29, 2011

If your pH is 10 out of the tap, you should look into buying water to feed it. Adjusting the pH by that much will make the water not as 'friendly' (imagine a gallon of half pH up half pH down - its still "technically" neutral) and also the pH is probably unstable, considering at 10 it probably has a lot of calcium absorbing the acid, so while it might have read 7 one minute, when you watered it went up. Also, pH should ideally be under 7. Rainwater is 5.5-6.5. Try to emulate that range - ideal nutrient uptake is ~6.0

The growth pattern looks like a 12/12 light cycle growth. You should kill that plant, and try again.

It also sounds like you are using BAD soil. General hint, "Slow release fertilizer" means "Do not use with Cannabis." I would recommend mixing your own, given your location it may be easier. Its definitely cheaper.

doser · Jul 29, 2011

Kingrow1 said:
There is so much wrong it would be better to start over again. Bad overwatering, soil is not right in the first place either and plants look really bad and in need of transplant to right conditions.

Sorry if i sound harsh as im not trying to be, they got a lot of watering problems to start with. Ph'ing water and ppm checking to make sure tap water is between 150ppm and 200ppm to start with then water and allow the soil to dry inbetween, water the roots and soil round them not the whole pot at first so soil dries within a few days promoting rooting.

Soil seems like the wrong type with slow release ferts in, no one single thing will sort this out not really except transplanting but they are already in big pots. Sorry dude.

man ya stole my thunder............my thoughts exactly and if I was a better typer I'd a got here first. lol

Maoriweedz · Jul 30, 2011

blackxs said:
If your pH is 10 out of the tap, you should look into buying water to feed it. Adjusting the pH by that much will make the water not as 'friendly' (imagine a gallon of half pH up half pH down - its still "technically" neutral) and also the pH is probably unstable, considering at 10 it probably has a lot of calcium absorbing the acid, so while it might have read 7 one minute, when you watered it went up. Also, pH should ideally be under 7. Rainwater is 5.5-6.5. Try to emulate that range - ideal nutrient uptake is ~6.0

The growth pattern looks like a 12/12 light cycle growth. You should kill that plant, and try again.

It also sounds like you are using BAD soil. General hint, "Slow release fertilizer" means "Do not use with Cannabis." I would recommend mixing your own, given your location it may be easier. Its definitely cheaper.

Ok so ph problem and soil seems like big problems, damn lol
Ill Transplant em, and flush with some water from a spring I found, I had em on 18/6 light...
with killen em there is a problem, I taxed the seeds off my lil brother and have been cloning before flower time so I can't get hold of any more to retry, I've been cloning outdoor for the last two seasons with no problem.
Would cutting em off at the base and dipping in clonex be a bad idear anyone?

Kingrow1 · Jul 30, 2011

symbiote420 said:
WOW!!! 10.......you don't even need to drink that shit, and @ 8 in the soil all of your nutes are locked out, it needs to be around 6.0 to 7.0 for the nutes to become available to the plant again. You should let it sit because the water co. treats the water with different gases like chlorine and flouride that needs to evaporate out of it before you use it because they can kill the plants when large amounts are present in the water ( takes about 24-48 hrs.)
I'd transplant them, but I'd advise you to go real light on the fertilizer like a 1/4 dose, the roots are in a f'd up state right now give them some time to get it together, a good foliar spray might jump start their recovery, if you got some seaweed or compost tea I'd use that!
The black spots look to me like some form of P def.

Ph is overated, just pH all water and ferts to 6.8. If you get acidic soil add lime. Low runoff pH means built up fert salts not acidic soil. The soil pH and water pH are two different things. Dont get too hung up about pH, its not the monster you think it is. Simple amend soil with dolomite lime, no water will ever change soil pH, the cal/mag in the water might help a slight bit at most.

Start the grow again these plants had too much abuse really and hell knows whats going on fert wise and soil wise. Others might help you keep them alive but seems like so much has gone wrong you need some time to work out what and a different approach to the whole grow. Peace

blackxs · Jul 30, 2011

Kingrow1 said:
Ph is overated, just pH all water and ferts to 6.8. If you get acidic soil add lime. Low runoff pH means built up fert salts not acidic soil. The soil pH and water pH are two different things. Dont get too hung up about pH, its not the monster you think it is. Simple amend soil with dolomite lime, no water will ever change soil pH, the cal/mag in the water might help a slight bit at most.

Start the grow again these plants had too much abuse really and hell knows whats going on fert wise and soil wise. Others might help you keep them alive but seems like so much has gone wrong you need some time to work out what and a different approach to the whole grow. Peace

Well the pH is overrated concept is interesting... but...

Highly basic water likely has a high calcium content in it, calcium absorbs acidity - thus making it very basic. I know many instances of people who's pH wont stabilize. Its always the same - tap water. If your tap water is that bad to begin with, not only do you not know if you can stabilize it (take a ph reading tonight, take one tomorow and next evening and see how they compare) but you also dont know what other junk is in there. If its at a pH of 10 that is not good stuff - likely a lot of dissolved metals and other junk you dont want and that your plant most definitely does not want.

And while you may be able to stabilize it enough for a feeding, that is completely overlooking the fact that what you feed the plant stays in the soil - so that acid-absorbing calcium that your tap water has in gratuitous amounts? Its in your soil now, making your soil basic instead of acidic. It will continue ruining your feedings until the plant can not have any new growth and... looks like your plant.

And no, dont clone those. Its unfortunate but, no. Especially not now. NEVER clone a stressed mother - thats a sure way to get a hermie.

Honestly they are probably done. You can go ahead and keep em alive but plants express phenotypes based on it's environment and I doubt that plant is selecting the ones that are going to make it a good bud producer, its struggling just to stay alive much less produce juicy buds...

Kingrow1 · Jul 30, 2011

blackxs said:
Well the pH is overrated concept is interesting... but...

Highly basic water likely has a high calcium content in it, calcium absorbs acidity - thus making it very basic. I know many instances of people who's pH wont stabilize. Its always the same - tap water. If your tap water is that bad to begin with, not only do you not know if you can stabilize it (take a ph reading tonight, take one tomorow and next evening and see how they compare) but you also dont know what other junk is in there. If its at a pH of 10 that is not good stuff - likely a lot of dissolved metals and other junk you dont want and that your plant most definitely does not want.

And while you may be able to stabilize it enough for a feeding, that is completely overlooking the fact that what you feed the plant stays in the soil - so that acid-absorbing calcium that your tap water has in gratuitous amounts? Its in your soil now, making your soil basic instead of acidic. It will continue ruining your feedings until the plant can not have any new growth and... looks like your plant.

And no, dont clone those. Its unfortunate but, no. Especially not now. NEVER clone a stressed mother - thats a sure way to get a hermie.

Honestly they are probably done. You can go ahead and keep em alive but plants express phenotypes based on it's environment and I doubt that plant is selecting the ones that are going to make it a good bud producer, its struggling just to stay alive much less produce juicy buds...

What can i say, still made me laugh. Peace

Maoriweedz · Aug 8, 2011

Just thought ide let you guys how it turned out,

I took everyones advice and I transplanted them into 25% dirt and 75% vermiculite (ran out of vermiculite lol) flushed th end first watering and then fed them Maxicrop seaweed plant food concentrate at 1/4 streangth, and 1/4 streangth Proganics hydro veg nutrients. With 6.5 ph spring water.
they stayed the same for two or three days then perked up, slowly got green leaves back ones the green was back they starred getting bigger they have full green leaves they have exploded the past two days growing faster each day,

thanx for the help

some pics aswell

Kingrow1 · Aug 9, 2011

Kingrow1 said:
What can i say, still made me laugh. Peace

Was i being mean here dude, sorry bro if i was. Know we come head to head on a few threads but reading your post on pH above and was impressed. I see you know quite a few things. Lets talk pH sometime. Peace

Kingrow1 · Aug 9, 2011

Heya dude plants looking great. Vermiculite crushes easy so be carefull with it and dont breath in the dust when you pour it out the bag, bad for the lungs! Glad you getting the hang of it, hard to over or underwater in vermiculite because it creates so many air pockets for the plant roots to breath but pay attention to the watering, bad watering will kill a plant quick, work out your best ways to water and what the plant likes, i never grown in that much vermiculite so can offer no advice to watering.

Anyway looks like you saved em and i said ditch em, my bad sorry, didn't have much confidence in you did i!lol! Dont forget to post if you got any probs, rollitup probably help you many times till harvest, any other questions then fire away. Peace

dtp5150 · Aug 9, 2011

i would never have guessed these plants would have been rescued.

A+ for not giving up and sticking to a healthy regime. your first post and pictures made me laugh so hard.

Maoriweedz · Aug 28, 2011

Just a few photos on the progress.. My big plant has started to out grow the box so I have put her into flower, first day today..took a few clones and yeah check out the pics and ill chuck more on at harvest

Kingrow1 · Aug 28, 2011

Well i'll be a dingos wombat, you certainly got things under control there, looking good. Peace

Young plants with yellow leaves and black patches

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