Something To Reflect On.

crazyoutlaw

crazyoutlaw

New Member
Maybe....Dammit what should I use??Ima have 4 CFL's so I need all the light I can get....hey where do I buy those twin socket adpeters???Home Depot??
 
MetalSmelter

MetalSmelter

Well-Known Member
Havn't put light to it yet but should be just as good if not better than paint. white printer paper seemed to work well for me so i figired this would too, should have lights to it in a day if not 2.
 
smoove

smoove

Well-Known Member
This is an excerpt from the Overgrow : GrowFAQ

Please read all of it if. It could possiblly answer all the questions you have about reflective surfaces in your grow room.

Contributed by: DaChronicKing
Submitted: 05-07-2003

Choosing the right surface for the walls of your grow room is very important, as up to 40% of your total yield comes from the edge, and the right wall surface can increase the amount of light those plants receive by up to 30%! Artificial lighting diminishes exponentially with distance, so it is important to ‘contain’ as much of this light as possible, and direct it accordingly. Reflective surfaces also help illuminate the lower portions of the garden, providing lower buds with light and heat energy.

To get the best results with your light and walls, it is important to get the walls as close as possible to your garden to ensure the least amount of light is wasted. As a caveat, the percentages provided are only useful as a general guideline, as they present the range of reflectivity of the particular surfaces. The high percentage presents the best possible circumstances for that material (for example a 99% reflectivity rating for mylar sheeting would be under ideal conditions - no creases, completely flat, no discoloration, etc).

The best way to determine how well your grow room walls reflect light would be to purchase a light meter and measure your light directly; then take an opaque board and hold it a few inches off one of your walls with the light meter below the board in such a fashion that the light reflects off the wall and onto the light meter. You can then compare the difference between the two and determine a percentage from those numbers, the closer the two numbers are, the better your wall reflects light. It is important that in both measurements, your light meter is the same distance from the light, otherwise your results will be skewed.

Also important to note is that radiant light energy refers to electromagnetic (EM) radiation with a wavelength between 400-700 nanometers (nm) and radiant heat energy correlates to EM radiation with a wavelength between 800-2000nm.

Listed below are some of the most commonly used materials used for grow room walls:

Foylon:

A more durable version of mylar, made of spun polyester fabric and reinforced with foil laminate. Foylon is resistant to most solutions, won't tear or fade, and can be wiped or washed clean.

A great solution for growers who are interested in long term use, and though it may be slightly more expensive than mylar, its durability will more than make up for its cost. It has the ability to reflect about 95% of the light and approximately 85% of the heat energy, so a good ventilation system should be used in conjunction with folyon.

A recommended method to attach Foylon to the walls would be using Velcro, as it makes taking it down for cleaning much easier nd reduces the risk of tearing, creasing or bending it. If this is used for your walls, making sure you get it flush with the wall with no pockets of air between it and the wall to prevent hotspots.

Mylar:

A highly reflective polyester film that comes in varying thickness, the most common being 1 and 2 mm thick. The 2mm thick mylar while not quite as durable as the foylon, is fairly rugged. The 1mm thick mylar tears fairly easily, so taking it down for cleaning is quite difficult without damaging it in the process. Both types of mylar are able to reflect approximately 92-97% reflective, giving it the potential to be more reflective than foylon, but because foylon is more easily cleaned without damaging it as well as it being harder to crease, foylon usually ends up being slightly more reflective. Important to note is that mylar reflects radiant heat energy just as well as foylon (around 85%), so proper ventilation is necessary if mylar is used in your grow room. Attaching this to walls can be done in a similar fashion as foylon, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room. The 1mm thick mylar stands a fair chance of being creased or ripped in the process unfortunately, even if Velcro is used to attach to the walls.

C3 anti-detection film:

A specialized type of mylar that exhibits the same properties as the 2mm thick mylar, but in addition to reflecting approximately 92-97% of the light, it also is 90% infrared proof, making your grow room all but invisible to IR scanning. This can also be attached in the same manner as foylon or mylar, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room.

Flat white paint:

Self explanatory; a great option for grow rooms or for people who are interested in a low maintenance wall. Flat white paint has the ability to reflect between 75-85% of the light, and does not create hotspots. Adding a fungicide is recommended when painting.

Glossy and eggshell whites not reflect light as efficiently as flat white. Semi-gloss paint for example, only has the ability to reflect between 55-60% of the light. Also important to remember when using paint is that any smears or blemishes on the surface take away from how reflective the wall is so care should be taken to avoid marking or staining the walls. Titanium white paint is very reflective; however it is usually only used on reflectors due to its high cost.

Elastomere paint:

A rubberized roofing paint with 90% reflection. Good for growboxes. Mildew resistant. Highly reflective.

Kool Seal White Elastomeric Roof Coating ~ $15.00 (1 Gallon)

Ultra high reflectivity. Forms a rubber-like blanket that expands and contracts. Adheres to almost any surface (very good on wood and metal) Available @ Lowe's Home Improvement by Kitchen Cabinets, Paint, or Appliances & Flooring.

White/Black plastic (also known as Panda Plastic or "Poly"):

"Poly" is useful if you are setting up a temporary grow room or don’t want to damage the walls. Poly is easily cleaned.

The purpose of the black side is to not allow any light to pass through the plastic, which ensures your dark cycle remains dark. The white side is 75-90% reflective. Choose a 6 "mill" thickness of poly for maximum light blockage and duribility.

If this plastic is put too close to the light, you will obviously melt it so be careful!. Panda plastic does not create hotspots. Poly can be attached to the walls by using carpenter’s nails or using tape glue or similar means. This can be used as a cheap alternative to mylar if painting your grow room is out of the question.

Polystyrene Foam Sheeting (more commonly known as Styrofoam):

This is excellent for harsh environment growrooms (your attic for example), provided you have a good ventilation system and a way to keep the temperatures from rising too high (an a/c unit or similar) as it is an excellent insulator.

It is also a great material for use in a temporary setup or for use as a "travelling reflector" on a light mover, where weight is a concern. It is approximately 75-85% light reflective so it is comparable to using a flat white paint. Foam will not create hot spots. Rigid foam can be purchased in sheets, and can be used as a free standing wall or can be taped, glued or nailed to the wall, the last generally being the most successful method.

Emergency Blankets:

These are ultra thin polyester blankets that are sold in most camping stores and are constructed of a single layer of polyester film that is covered with a layer of vapor deposited aluminum.

It is not very effective at reflecting light because it is so thin. Holding it between you and a light source, many small holes are noticed at the intersections of creases and the entire blanket is translucent to begin with, this coupled with the many creases that are in it when you purchase it takes away a significant amount of it reflectivity. It is very easily creased as well which also detracts from its ability to reflect light. And while it is reflects nearly 90% of radiant heat energy, it is only able to reflect around 70% of the light.

The largest advantage of using this type of material is that it is very cheap and therefore easily replaced. Emergency blankets can create hotspots if not attached flush to the wall so it is important that no air gaps exist between it and your supporting wall. The easiest way to attach this is to use tape (Aluminum or metal tape is recommended), as it tears very easily once it is cut or punctured.

Aluminum Foil:
Aluminum foil is no more than 55% reflective - if used, make sure that the dull side is the one that is used to reflect the light. When it becomes creased its reflectivity is even lower (around 35%.) It is also very dangerous to use because it creates hotspots easily, is electrically conductive, and is a fire hazard when it is in close contact with HID lighting. Attaching this to walls is a pain and usually using aluminum tape or glue is the best way. This should only be used as a last resort, and even then its usefulness is questionable.
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I wouldn't claim this information to be 100% accurate but it's one of the better researched and updated articles I could dig up on the subject. No, it doesn't mention Doritos Bags, Igloo Coolers, Poster Board, or how to "ghetto-rig" your room on the cheap, I'm sorry. But it does mention Flat White Paint as an excellent option.

Also Keep in mind that the reflective percentages in this article are based on a perfectly flat clean surface. So if you're patching stuff together to make your wall covering, you're going to create gaps and uneven surfaces. If you can't affor Mylar... seriously, Flat White Paint is your next best option.

Hope this info is helpful.


:leaf:
 
redirasta

redirasta

Well-Known Member
Space Blankets are like $1 if you have to use mylar. I was just going by what Ed says. Also to Prove a point take all three outside on a sunny day. Clean White Styrofoam is by far the brightest, and most even reflection. That is all I use. It also has insulative properties. Which is good for staying on the DL.
V
 
smoove

smoove

Well-Known Member
redirasta said:
Space Blankets are like $1 if you have to use mylar. I was just going by what Ed says. Also to Prove a point take all three outside on a sunny day. Clean White Styrofoam is by far the brightest, and most even reflection. That is all I use. It also has insulative properties. Which is good for staying on the DL.
V
Click to expand...
"Ed" says styrofoam is "nearly 100% reflective" and is more reflective than mylar and flat white paint? If you're talking Ed Rosenthal, I have a few more quotes of his regarding reflective walls too...

From his book: Closet Cultivator

"Closet cultivators have found that electrically generated light is precious so any generated is best conserved. Efficient indoor gardens must reflect back the light straying out of the perimeter. Growers cover walls which cannot be painted with flat white paint... with Astrolon or Mylar. This is extremely important. Any light which hits a dark surface is absorbed and converted into heat, rather than being used in the garden."

"Styrofoam is used in cool spaces where heat must be conserved. The walls can be lined with styrofoam insulating material which comes on a roll or in sheets. (available in some home improvement stores). It is very reflective. The rolls come in several widths, and is about 1/8" thick."

From the book: Marajuana Growing Tips

"Movable reflective panels can also be used. Panels can be made from 4' X 8' Styrofoam pieces coated in a reflective material. Most growers prefer Mylar, but... aluminized greenhouse white paint or flat white paint will work."
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Interesting... in that last quote he actually says to coat styrofoam with either mylar or paint.... but wait... I thought styrofoam is already more reflective than those?

As far as comparing the "brightness" of materials in your backyard, with your naked eye... it's pretty much like you're looking at these three red lines down below and deciding that the second one is the longest of the three... it's all in your head.


"The priceless galaxy of misinformation called the mind." - Djuna Barnes


Now... show me a light meter reading that says styrofoam is more reflective and you'll have an argument. I'm not knockin you for using it though, cuz it works and it's better than nothing. I just want to clarify the misinformation. Styrofoam is not "nearly 100% reflective" nor is it more reflective than mylar or flat white paint.


:leaf:
 
crazyoutlaw

crazyoutlaw

New Member
Dohh!! So what should I use?Dammit Ima go with the chip bags I guess,my plants are germinating right now,and I just finished preparing the soil mix...BTW the mix is top soil,xcoir,perlite,with some coffee grounds thrown in..sounds good??
 
smoove

smoove

Well-Known Member
brendon420 said:
60% of the time it works everytime
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HAHA! It's made with real bits of panther... so you know it's good!


crazyoutlaw said:
Dohh!! So what should I use?Dammit Ima go with the chip bags I guess,my plants are germinating right now,and I just finished preparing the soil mix...BTW the mix is top soil,xcoir,perlite,with some coffee grounds thrown in..sounds good??
Click to expand...
I promise, this is the last time I'll say this...

Use Flat White Paint if you can't get or afford Mylar :p

:leaf:
 
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redirasta

redirasta

Well-Known Member
On page 51 of Ed Rosenthal's book "ASK ED" Section C: The question asked was,

"Will reflective surfaces in a grow space enhance plant growth"?

To which he answers: "Any light that does not reach the garden is wasted. Reflectors vary in the light pattern they create. Usually areas directly under the light get the greatest intensity. The light is less intense to the sides. Some of the light is sent to areas outside the garden. To increase a plants growth, this light should be reflected back so the plants can use it. Mylar reflects more than 90% of the light, while mirrors reflect 70% or less. Aluminum foil reflects about 75%; flat white paint reflects about 85%; and semi-gloss white about 80%.
Clean white styorfoam reflects nearly 100%"


Thank You.
 
redirasta

redirasta

Well-Known Member
Interesting... in that last quote he actually says to coat styrofoam with either mylar or paint.... but wait... I thought styrofoam is already more reflective than those?

As far as comparing the "brightness" of materials in your backyard, with your naked eye... it's pretty much like you're looking at these three red lines down below and deciding that the second one is the longest of the three... it's all in your head.


That is not what he says. also a reader tip on page 51// " The finest reflective material I have found is an exterior sheathing called "Thermo-Ply." It comes in 4'x8' sheets and is 1/8-inch thick. Thermo-Ply is foil-faced and contains a vapor barrier inside. It is extremely reflective. It is available at building supply houses."


besides, don't be a dick, live and let live. and well I've used that god damned Mylar too. Never a chip bag but, whatever. And it is nothing like your line quiz. But thanks for the analogy.

It is hard to argue about 10%. You Win.
 
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txhomegrown

txhomegrown

Well-Known Member
Lets see, am I going to go buy a hundred bucks worth of chips to get enough bags to line my growing area?
Or, will I go buy an eight dollar gallon of flat white paint and spend the other $92.00 on some good seeds.
Jesus Christ, six fucking pages to keep arguing over shit that was answered at least twice on the first page.
Enjoy your chips dudes.
 
ganjagoddess

ganjagoddess

Well-Known Member
never got why people think using mylared chips bags is a good idea, I think they are just scared to go to a grow store...

a 25 foot roll of mylar is only $13.00?
 
K

kuhdoffi

Well-Known Member
and for styorfoam having it left uncovered with out a heat shield can be harmful to your health, should u ever have a fire (knock on wood for everyone) the fumes could render you or/and others unconscious .. for like a 10% increase of reflected light not worth it in imho ..switching to a vertically hung bulb would prob help u out more, no reflected light or at least the minimal amount
 
smoove

smoove

Well-Known Member
redirasta said:
On page 51 of Ed Rosenthal's book "ASK ED" Section C: The question asked was,

"Will reflective surfaces in a grow space enhance plant growth"?

To which he answers: "Any light that does not reach the garden is wasted. Reflectors vary in the light pattern they create. Usually areas directly under the light get the greatest intensity. The light is less intense to the sides. Some of the light is sent to areas outside the garden. To increase a plants growth, this light should be reflected back so the plants can use it. Mylar reflects more than 90% of the light, while mirrors reflect 70% or less. Aluminum foil reflects about 75%; flat white paint reflects about 85%; and semi-gloss white about 80%.
Clean white styorfoam reflects nearly 100%"


Thank You.
Click to expand...
I didn't mean to come off sounding like a "dick" so I apologize. I do however still want to make clear that whether or not you were accurately quoting Ed Rosenthal... Styrofoam is not "nearly 100% reflective." (that's all I want to clarify) Styrofoam does absorb light and because Styrofoam has a granular surface, it produces a more "diffuse reflection" which is to say the light reflects off the surface in many different angles. As shown in the following image.





In fact, a common practice in photography is to use Styrofoam as a light diffuser or light softener. It creates a soft even reflection because light is bouncing off of it in all directions. This is not necessarily what you want in your grow-room though. More light will be reflected up or away from the plants than with a more specular reflective material.

If it matters to you, please note: Styrofoam and Mylar are not biodegradable and not recyclable in most areas. Alternatives like paint, are relatively inexpensive, readily available, and more eco-friendly.

:leaf:
 
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