And the Jacks hydro has calcium nitrate that sells for 5x the cost of plain old calcium nitrate. No difference other than cost so buy a 5lb bag of cal nit from a garden supply shop for $7.50 and save yourself $20
Jack's Classic growers
- Thread starter medicalman1983
- Start date
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
You need to go back to the AN threads. We've been over this. Nothing you are using is complete, hence the multiple bottles you buy. You are like a fucking broken record. I've shown healthy plants using nothing but jacks, you show no plants. Pick another battle.
My plants are doing just fine with Jacks products. Others have also shown great plants using only Jacks. You've shown nothing. Just a naysayer with nothing to add.
Edited to add, since some people can't read, here's the fucking label.... don't see calcium huh?
No wonder my plants are so healthy.
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
No I simply understand what makes up soil. Humus is part of the soil Web, but it has no available nutritional value. It's organic matter broken down to the point of being inert. It acts as a medium. Do you know what inert means? It means adding nothing further. It's the point of being broken down to the point it can't break down further. Is it a true hydro? No, but due to the fact I have to provide nutrients to feed the plant, similar to hydro, where a true soil with compost and decaying organic matter continues to break down nutrients to provide for a plant the nutes it needs.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
THIS ISN"T WHAT MAKES SOMETHING HYDRO.
Just because you have to add nutrients to your soil doesn't mean it's hydroponic. Holy shit. What makes your soil soil is that it has minerals in it. Silt and clay makes it soil. Organic matter is used to fertilize soil. If your media provides iron (yours does), it's soil. If your media provides calcium (yours does), it's soil, etc.
Jack's classic is a SOIL BASED NUTRIENT based on UREA.
Pictures would mean nothing in this case. Sure you've seen his pictures of SOIL GROWN plants and they look just fine. Now if you want to ruin your hydroponic setup, you can take this moron's advice, as if Jack's made a hydro version of their product just to cheat you out of your money.
Just because you have to add nutrients to your soil doesn't mean it's hydroponic. Holy shit. What makes your soil soil is that it has minerals in it. Silt and clay makes it soil. Organic matter is used to fertilize soil. If your media provides iron (yours does), it's soil. If your media provides calcium (yours does), it's soil, etc.
Jack's classic is a SOIL BASED NUTRIENT based on UREA.
Pictures would mean nothing in this case. Sure you've seen his pictures of SOIL GROWN plants and they look just fine. Now if you want to ruin your hydroponic setup, you can take this moron's advice, as if Jack's made a hydro version of their product just to cheat you out of your money.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Even homebrewer has posted this same article before. It's linked by wordpress in the comments of the article I posted. Look at what he posted. He refers to the same reference I did. I'm sure he's being political by avoiding this argument.
https://www.rollitup.org/nutrients/485086-advanced-nutrients-lie-their-labels-17.html#post8368324
https://www.rollitup.org/nutrients/485086-advanced-nutrients-lie-their-labels-17.html#post8368324
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
You don't even understand nutes. I got nothing to prove to you. Figure out what P2O5 is and what it can consist of.
My pictures speak for themselves. This is a jacks thread. There is more than enough AN threads for you to stroke it to. I'm off to a nice evening,
My pictures speak for themselves. This is a jacks thread. There is more than enough AN threads for you to stroke it to. I'm off to a nice evening,
lilroach
Well-Known Member
wow.....it only took 3 pages before someone started calling someone else names.
I have yet read someone's post that said they used Jack's Classic and didn't like it. If there were one change I made that increased my yield, I would have to point to Jacks. I used General Organics beginner box for my first 4-5 grows and it was ok....then I switched to Jacks and my average yield went from less than 2 ounces to now a consistent 4-6 ounces per plant. I'm alternating feeding the 20-20-20 with the 10-30-20.
Here's a plant grown with Jacks.....6.5 ounces:
I have yet read someone's post that said they used Jack's Classic and didn't like it. If there were one change I made that increased my yield, I would have to point to Jacks. I used General Organics beginner box for my first 4-5 grows and it was ok....then I switched to Jacks and my average yield went from less than 2 ounces to now a consistent 4-6 ounces per plant. I'm alternating feeding the 20-20-20 with the 10-30-20.
Here's a plant grown with Jacks.....6.5 ounces:
jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if this is relevant but I've used GH hydro nutes in soil for 4 successful grows in a row now with a variety of different strains with the same sweet result (better than anything I've ever seen at a dispensary)! I don't like hydro and will never do hydro because it's unnatural (not knockin anyone) and requires too many moving parts hooked up to power which is outside of jonny's comfort zone. A pump gets clogged, you're fucked...a pump fails you're fucked....soil, shit I can go 5 days without giving a shit what's going on in my garden b/c it's soil DUDE! When a hydro fan boy can tell me how they deal with a power outage, I'll buy their system...until then, jonny loves his dirt and so does anybody smoking his meds. A good friend of my grows in hydro and his shit is well....shit compared to mine, same strain and all from the same mother. BTW, jonny never has to flush b/c he doesn't over nute like the rest of the morons out there using 10 different bottles with SUPER COOL BUD BLOOD PICS ON THE FRONT OF THE BOTTLE and so forth...the nute companies gotta have a market somewhere tho so why not take advantage of the dumbest individuals out there first eh?
Jonny will continue with simplicity. I swear a real horticulturist would laugh at the amount of bullshit misinformation spread throughout these forums...at least they can now make a descent living I guess lol
Jonny will continue with simplicity. I swear a real horticulturist would laugh at the amount of bullshit misinformation spread throughout these forums...at least they can now make a descent living I guess lol
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
I think you're implying I started calling names first, but it was actually TonightYou who started by calling people who use calculators idiots.
Also, read a little bit closer. Nobody said Jack's classic is bad. I only said it's a soil fertilizer and thus not a complete formula. Fertilizers meant for feeding soil based grows purposefully leave out some stuff as it's provided in the soil itself. If you use soil, Jack's classic is A-OK, but if you're growing hydroponically, it's not good, hence why Jack's has a hydrponic line.
Nobody is advising you switch from soil to hydro, just that hydro growers BEWARE. BEWARE!!! TonightYou is a SOIL grower. He has DIRT in his medium.
Also, read a little bit closer. Nobody said Jack's classic is bad. I only said it's a soil fertilizer and thus not a complete formula. Fertilizers meant for feeding soil based grows purposefully leave out some stuff as it's provided in the soil itself. If you use soil, Jack's classic is A-OK, but if you're growing hydroponically, it's not good, hence why Jack's has a hydrponic line.
Nobody is advising you switch from soil to hydro, just that hydro growers BEWARE. BEWARE!!! TonightYou is a SOIL grower. He has DIRT in his medium.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
If you grow in soil, there's no need to use GH hydro nutes. Go for the Jack's classic!
Why you call hydro unnatural while using hydro nutes makes no sense to me, however.
Why you call hydro unnatural while using hydro nutes makes no sense to me, however.
jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
Unnatural in the way that it's well...unnatural. I've never seen a tomato in the wild growing out of a DWC bucket, have you?
Using synthetic nutrients as I did in soil obviously shows that the nutrients still work just the same as my buds have been nothing but top shelf. Hydro nutes are merely synthetic so I use synthetic nutes in a soil atmosphere which is perfectly acceptable. I think organic growing is great but over hyped immensely. I promise you couldn't smoke one of my buds and one grown purely organically and tell me which one is which.
BTW, I just switched to jack's classic all purpose and jack's classic bloom booster, but thanks for the info anyway.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Well I hate to break it to you, but Jack's classic is also "unnatural" and "synthetic". It's not a bucket of decaying corpses, piss and shit, it's synthetic nutes, formulated for soil instead of hydroponic media.
Being "synthetic" is not what makes something meant for hydroponics.
Being "synthetic" is not what makes something meant for hydroponics.
lilroach
Well-Known Member
This whole thing about synthetics vs. organics. I really don't know what the attraction is to smoke something that is grown in bat-shit and worm castings.....Yummm???
Do some research on how they obtain bat-shit. It's not done in a lab, or some sort of disease-free environment....
I'm not knocking organic growing....I really am not. But for organic growers to poo-poo synthetic nutrients while dabbling in bat crap (there was a pun there wasn't there?) is a head-shaker to me.
Do some research on how they obtain bat-shit. It's not done in a lab, or some sort of disease-free environment....
I'm not knocking organic growing....I really am not. But for organic growers to poo-poo synthetic nutrients while dabbling in bat crap (there was a pun there wasn't there?) is a head-shaker to me.
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
FWIW, I would not use Jacks 20-20-20 or any of their other tubs in a flood-n-drain system. They make a 2-part hydro formula that I'm actually interested in trying but other than that, everything else looks like it's intended for 'dirt'.
The 100% perlite test would be interesting but my guess is that it wont work. If that's how I ran things I'd seek out a true hydro formula with lots of nitrate N and the other 12-15 elements.
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
So I got an email back from Jack's and I stand corrected. I was wrong, so before I dive in to the info they provided info, I owe churchhaze and jbone an apology. I was wrong, and an asshole. So again, I am sorry.
Neither Jack's that I use has calcium in it, And even though it is water soluble, running it would wasted nitrates which could cause a problem. So those are the facts from the horses mouth.
Eta they mentioned to get around these issues to run their two part hydro line.
Neither Jack's that I use has calcium in it, And even though it is water soluble, running it would wasted nitrates which could cause a problem. So those are the facts from the horses mouth.
Eta they mentioned to get around these issues to run their two part hydro line.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Sorry I lashed out like I did, it really wasn't anything personal. I just really like the hydrobuddy calculator and took offense since so few people use it, yet it seems so intuitive.
Check this out. I put Jack's Hydroponic 5-12-16 into hydrobuddy as a substance and showed how it can be used with other salts (like calcium nitrate of course) to make mixes. In this example, 20g of Jack's hydro, 20g of yara calcium nitrate, and 10g of mono potassium phosphate in 10 gallons of water gets you the following nutrient profile.
I forgot to put in the preparation cost of Jack's hydro, so it's priced at 100 dollars a kilo. It shouldn't actually cost 2 dollars for 20g of jacks.
Check this out. I put Jack's Hydroponic 5-12-16 into hydrobuddy as a substance and showed how it can be used with other salts (like calcium nitrate of course) to make mixes. In this example, 20g of Jack's hydro, 20g of yara calcium nitrate, and 10g of mono potassium phosphate in 10 gallons of water gets you the following nutrient profile.
I forgot to put in the preparation cost of Jack's hydro, so it's priced at 100 dollars a kilo. It shouldn't actually cost 2 dollars for 20g of jacks.
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
Hey I'd rather be corrected than hold a false belief or notion. Plus when one is wrong, one is wrong.
I realized I didn't have issues with Cal due to amending my happy frog with roots elemental packets I've had lying around. Got a shit ton of those for free and was using those up. I use to use Cal mag when I ran fox farms trio, but after switching to jacks I also started using up those packets. So that explains why I haven't had issues. The email got me thinking as to why I hadn't had problems.
Oh I didn't realise you were discussing that calculator, I was inferring to the joke that AN website runs. So my bad on that as well. I don't blame ya for lashing out man, I was being bullheaded. I've never seen that calculator before.
Eta you have a link to that? Seems like a useful tool
I realized I didn't have issues with Cal due to amending my happy frog with roots elemental packets I've had lying around. Got a shit ton of those for free and was using those up. I use to use Cal mag when I ran fox farms trio, but after switching to jacks I also started using up those packets. So that explains why I haven't had issues. The email got me thinking as to why I hadn't had problems.
Oh I didn't realise you were discussing that calculator, I was inferring to the joke that AN website runs. So my bad on that as well. I don't blame ya for lashing out man, I was being bullheaded. I've never seen that calculator before.
Eta you have a link to that? Seems like a useful tool
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Yeah.. that calculator is a joke.. I'm really sorry, I really thought you were talking about me because I was talking about hydrobuddy in another thread at the same time as you posted that.
I can agree that AN's calculator is really pointless and meant to get people to buy more things than they need. Honestly, I think I was out of weed when I started arguing.
Here's a link to hydrobuddy.
http://scienceinhydroponics.com/2013/02/the-first-free-hydroponic-nutrient-calculator-program-o.html
It has a pretty decent tutorial.
I can agree that AN's calculator is really pointless and meant to get people to buy more things than they need. Honestly, I think I was out of weed when I started arguing.
Here's a link to hydrobuddy.
http://scienceinhydroponics.com/2013/02/the-first-free-hydroponic-nutrient-calculator-program-o.html
It has a pretty decent tutorial.
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
Ya I laughed so hard at AN site in general. Seriously huge red flags for not taking the company serious.
I hear ya about being out and being cranky. I was antagonistic, bored at work, and enjoy a good argument. Although to be honest that wasn't a good argument, I was simply being a dick and thick headed. So hopefully we can have some good conversations, as you do know your shit and contribute knowledge to the community.
kinddiesel
Well-Known Member
I used jack before its good stuff. my friend uses 5 55 15 jacks and pushes the ppm to insanely high mabe 3000 ppm in late flower. 15 or more teaspoons for 5 gallons water. (check your ph ) jacks does lower the ph after its mixed into the water .