Another State Of The Union, Who Will Obama Blame?

[londonfog]

My god, I swear, you are like arguing with a woman.

The only one that's moved the goalposts are you and Schuylarr, my original comment ( the one both of you quoted by the way) was about the president insinuating, that because of him, women are now getting equal pay for equal work.

You and Schuylarr moved the goalpost to the Lilly Ledbetter Act, which is all about the statute of limitations on lawsuits pertaining equal pay, not equal pay itself, you in fact admitted this.

I'll answer your question about men making more than women doing the same job, my answer is: No, legally men cannot make more than women doing the same job. The Equal Pay Act of 1963 made it the law.
Now, if you are asking if some employers break this law, I don't know but I'll take an educated guess and say yes.
People break laws all the time, and it's not exclusive to employers my friend, employees do it on a daily basis and this is why we have laws canddo.

Now, my turn. Was the president deceptive in making these statements about equal pay for equal work, did he insinuate that because of him, women are now getting paid equal?

Could you link or supply the quote that Obama made that got you so uptight. His exact words please.

 

[londonfog]

So far the only comment I'm finding is this...

Today, women make up about half our workforce, but they still make 77 cents for every dollar a man earns. That is wrong, and in 2014, it's an embarrassment. Women deserve equal pay for equal work. (Applause.) She deserves to have a baby without sacrificing her job. A mother deserves a day off to care for a sick child or a sick parent without running into hardship. (Applause.) And you know what, a father does, too. It is time to do away with workplace policies that belong in a "Mad Men" episode. (Laughter and applause.) This year, let's all come together -- Congress, the White House, businesses from Wall Street to Main Street -- to give every woman the opportunity she deserves. (Applause.) Because I believe when women succeed, America succeeds. (Applause.)

again what is your argument???

 

[londonfog]

I guess you really did not listen to the speech, but instead just wanted to do what you do all the time BITCH ABOUT OBAMA

 

[beenthere]

,
I wish I new all the answers.
But my niece is a radiation therapist at Kaiser Permanente and makes near $100k, has a ton of paid vacation, sick leave, free healthcare ($5 co pay) and an excellent retirement plan and she's only a radiation therapist.
I believe medical assistants starts out around $24hr, god knows what nurses and doctors make.

The hospital she woks at employs about 3000 people so do the math.

And that's just labor.

General comment my ass, as you can see from my quote above, not only was I specific by naming the hospital, I wasn't even talking to you.
If you're dead set on picking a fight because of our disagreement in politics, I suggest you tighten up your emotions and attacks and come at me with legitimate policy arguments.

You make a general comment about medical assistant and only mention the salary of one hospital.What about the other medical assistant ??? I'm looking at the average USA wide...and it is not 24 an hour..more like 16

 

[beenthere]

"Equal pay for equal work" "I believe when women succeed, America succeeds"

Is the president insinuating that women make less than men do at the same job?

So far the only comment I'm finding is this...

Today, women make up about half our workforce, but they still make 77 cents for every dollar a man earns. That is wrong, and in 2014, it's an embarrassment. Women deserve equal pay for equal work. (Applause.) She deserves to have a baby without sacrificing her job. A mother deserves a day off to care for a sick child or a sick parent without running into hardship. (Applause.) And you know what, a father does, too. It is time to do away with workplace policies that belong in a "Mad Men" episode. (Laughter and applause.) This year, let's all come together -- Congress, the White House, businesses from Wall Street to Main Street -- to give every woman the opportunity she deserves. (Applause.) Because I believe when women succeed, America succeeds. (Applause.)

again what is your argument???

I guess you really did not listen to the speech, but instead just wanted to do what you do all the time BITCH ABOUT OBAMA

Fog, you're really not too good at this, are you.
Every time you open your mouth to complain about me, it's a failure on your part to gather information, are ya seeing the trend here, Fog.

 

[londonfog]

General comment my ass, as you can see from my quote above, not only was I specific by naming the hospital, I wasn't even talking to you.
If you're dead set on picking a fight because of our disagreement in politics, I suggest you tighten up your emotions and attacks and come at me with legitimate policy arguments.

Guy the average pay for an medical assistant is not 24 an hour. You going off a hospital in Cali, which with the cost of living the salaries will always be boosted more then the national norm. Next conversation was about Obama comment about women and equal pay...again whats your argument.

 

[londonfog]

Fog, you're really not too good at this, are you.
Every time you open your mouth to complain about me, it's a failure on your part to gather information, are ya seeing the trend here, Fog.

are you saying that there is zero wage gap between women and men.

 

[schuylaar]

My god, I swear, you are like arguing with a woman.

The only one that's moved the goalposts are you and Schuylarr, my original comment ( the one both of you quoted by the way) was about the president insinuating, that because of him, women are now getting equal pay for equal work.

You and Schuylarr moved the goalpost to the Lilly Ledbetter Act, which is all about the statute of limitations on lawsuits pertaining equal pay, not equal pay itself, you in fact admitted this.

I'll answer your question about men making more than women doing the same job, my answer is: No, legally men cannot make more than women doing the same job. The Equal Pay Act of 1963 made it the law.
Now, if you are asking if some employers break this law, I don't know but I'll take an educated guess and say yes.
People break laws all the time, and it's not exclusive to employers my friend, employees do it on a daily basis and this is why we have laws canddo.

Now, my turn. Was the president deceptive in making these statements about equal pay for equal work, did he insinuate that because of him, women are now getting paid equal?

Equal Pay For Equal Work: We Shall Overcome


Five years after the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act was signed into law, American women are almost no closer to receiving equal pay for equal work. We’re not where we should be, and we expect that to change.

In 2009 the fight for fair pay had built up momentum. Our new president, vocal in his support for closing the gender pay gap, had just signed into law a bipartisan piece of legislation that reversed a bad Supreme Court decision and put equal pay on the national agenda. We had high expectations for what would follow, namely that Congress would pass the Ledbetter bill’s companion legislation, the Paycheck Fairness Act.‎ The House did pass the bill—twice. But it narrowly missed in the Senate.

Since then, we’ve seen unprecedented gridlock in both chambers and watched both the House and Senate squander opportunities to advance the bill. The Paycheck Fairness Act would create stronger incentives for employers to pay workers fairly, empower women to negotiate for equal pay, and prohibit retaliation against employees who share salary information. The bill would require an employer to prove that any wage disparity is based on a bona fide factor other than sex, such as education, training, or experience. Currently courts can still allow businesses to justify gender wage disparity with market forces or past salaries—factors that may reflect previous and ongoing sex discrimination.
The stalling of the Paycheck Fairness Act has been particularly stunning considering that national polls tell us there is overwhelming support for policies that would help women get equal pay for equal work. Voters get that this bill goes hand in hand with addressing economic mobility for women.Further, studies like those from the American Association of University Women (AAUW) show that a gender pay gap exists even with an apples-to-apples comparison.
After controlling for factors known to affect earnings, such as education, parenthood, and hours worked, an AAUW study found that women earn 7% less than men earn just one year out of college, even when they have the same major and occupation. To those who don’t think 7% sounds like much, think about how that 7% is compounded over the course of a woman’s career—and how much it affects her benefits and retirement savings.

With public support and evidence on our side, we’re not naive to have expected Congress and the president to prioritize additional advancement in the fight for fair pay. But they have become too comfortable resting on their Ledbetter laurels. The Ledbetter Act, signed into law on January 29, 2009, simply restored 40 years of civil rights policies and precedents, ensuring that employees could challenge every discriminatory paycheck. As necessary and historic as the law was, it did not actually move the ball down the field as much as many seem to think.
Now for some good news: We believe that real progress can be made right away. Linda vividly remembers the exact moment President Barack Obama told her that he would sign the Paycheck Fairness Act into law if it reached his desk. But part of the Paycheck Fairness Act is on his desk right now.
The president can issue an executive order ‎that bans federal contractors from retaliating against workers who ask about wage practices or share salary information. This move would immediately implement a key part of the stalled Paycheck Fairness Act, which would give all employees this protection.‎
We certainly still need—and are continuing to push for—Congress to pass the Paycheck Fairness Act, but the president can protect 22 percent of the nation’s workforce, or 26 million people, with the stroke of his pen.‎ ‎That’s real progress right now. Just because Congress is stuck doesn’t mean the president has to be—and American women don’t either.
Giving employees the ability to discuss salaries without fear of retaliation or being fired means that people like Lilly might not have to spend decades being paid significantly less than their male counterparts before finding out about such disparities. The president’s executive order would enable the type of open dialogue often associated with a smaller gender pay gap.
The five-year anniversary of Lilly’s law is the perfect time for this call to President Obama and Congress to renew efforts to close the gender pay gap. In fact, Lilly will join the AAUW Action Fund Capitol Hill Lobby Corps on Capitol Hill this week to meet with key members of Congress who have yet to support the Paycheck Fairness Act. We will remind them that equal pay for equal work is critical to helping families make ends meet, pay for mortgages and college tuition, save for retirement, and put food on the table.

Five years after the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, we didn’t expect to still be walking the halls of Congress urging passage of the Paycheck Fairness Act. We expected progress to have been made on equal pay. That’s why we need the president to put part of the Paycheck Fairness Act in place right away for the employees of federal contractors—and to put equal pay back on the national agenda.

With the president’s executive order, we would be much closer to where we need to be on equal pay for equal work. It’s time to make history again.

Lilly Ledbetter was the plaintiff in the discrimination case Ledbetter v. Goodyear GT -0.45% Tire & Rubber Co. and the namesake for the first bill President Obama signed into law. She is the honorary public policy chair for AAUW of Alabama. Linda D. Hallman, CAE CAE -1.24%, is executive director and CEO of the American Association of University Women. For more than 25 years, Hallman has made her mark as an association innovator, and she is a frequent speaker on women’s issues, finance, leadership, and management. In 2013, she was recognized as one of 100 Women Leaders in STEM by STEMConnector.

 

[canndo]

My god, I swear, you are like arguing with a woman.

The only one that's moved the goalposts are you and Schuylarr, my original comment ( the one both of you quoted by the way) was about the president insinuating, that because of him, women are now getting equal pay for equal work.

You and Schuylarr moved the goalpost to the Lilly Ledbetter Act, which is all about the statute of limitations on lawsuits pertaining equal pay, not equal pay itself, you in fact admitted this.

I'll answer your question about men making more than women doing the same job, my answer is: No, legally men cannot make more than women doing the same job. The Equal Pay Act of 1963 made it the law.
Now, if you are asking if some employers break this law, I don't know but I'll take an educated guess and say yes.
People break laws all the time, and it's not exclusive to employers my friend, employees do it on a daily basis and this is why we have laws canddo.

Now, my turn. Was the president deceptive in making these statements about equal pay for equal work, did he insinuate that because of him, women are now getting paid equal?

I don't recall him saying that because of him women were getting equal pay, I recall him saying that they have not yet reached this status.

--Equal pay for equal work" "I believe when women succeed, America succeeds"

Is the president insinuating that women make less than men do at the same job?--


That was your post. Seems you are left in thin air here, dancnig as you have, right off a cliff.

He did not claim that he was instrumental in having women get the same as men, and women do not get the same as men.

 

[BigNBushy]

Guy the average pay for an medical assistant is not 24 an hour. You going off a hospital in Cali, which with the cost of living the salaries will always be boosted more then the national norm. Next conversation was about Obama comment about women and equal pay...again whats your argument.

Not to intercede in an argument I have no stake it, but are you dense? No where did beenthere talk about national averages. His comments were narrowed to a specific hospital/company.

And you come in all confrontational over something that doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Who gives a fuck what the national average for a specific job is outside of people with an interest in such a job?

In other words, even if you were correct, who gives two shits?

 

[BigNBushy]

Equal Pay For Equal Work: We Shall Overcome


Five years after the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act was signed into law, American women are almost no closer to receiving equal pay for equal work. We’re not where we should be, and we expect that to change.

In 2009 the fight for fair pay had built up momentum. Our new president, vocal in his support for closing the gender pay gap, had just signed into law a bipartisan piece of legislation that reversed a bad Supreme Court decision and put equal pay on the national agenda. We had high expectations for what would follow, namely that Congress would pass the Ledbetter bill’s companion legislation, the Paycheck Fairness Act.‎ The House did pass the bill—twice. But it narrowly missed in the Senate.

Since then, we’ve seen unprecedented gridlock in both chambers and watched both the House and Senate squander opportunities to advance the bill. The Paycheck Fairness Act would create stronger incentives for employers to pay workers fairly, empower women to negotiate for equal pay, and prohibit retaliation against employees who share salary information. The bill would require an employer to prove that any wage disparity is based on a bona fide factor other than sex, such as education, training, or experience. Currently courts can still allow businesses to justify gender wage disparity with market forces or past salaries—factors that may reflect previous and ongoing sex discrimination.
The stalling of the Paycheck Fairness Act has been particularly stunning considering that national polls tell us there is overwhelming support for policies that would help women get equal pay for equal work. Voters get that this bill goes hand in hand with addressing economic mobility for women.Further, studies like those from the American Association of University Women (AAUW) show that a gender pay gap exists even with an apples-to-apples comparison.
After controlling for factors known to affect earnings, such as education, parenthood, and hours worked, an AAUW study found that women earn 7% less than men earn just one year out of college, even when they have the same major and occupation. To those who don’t think 7% sounds like much, think about how that 7% is compounded over the course of a woman’s career—and how much it affects her benefits and retirement savings.

With public support and evidence on our side, we’re not naive to have expected Congress and the president to prioritize additional advancement in the fight for fair pay. But they have become too comfortable resting on their Ledbetter laurels. The Ledbetter Act, signed into law on January 29, 2009, simply restored 40 years of civil rights policies and precedents, ensuring that employees could challenge every discriminatory paycheck. As necessary and historic as the law was, it did not actually move the ball down the field as much as many seem to think.
Now for some good news: We believe that real progress can be made right away. Linda vividly remembers the exact moment President Barack Obama told her that he would sign the Paycheck Fairness Act into law if it reached his desk. But part of the Paycheck Fairness Act is on his desk right now.
The president can issue an executive order ‎that bans federal contractors from retaliating against workers who ask about wage practices or share salary information. This move would immediately implement a key part of the stalled Paycheck Fairness Act, which would give all employees this protection.‎
We certainly still need—and are continuing to push for—Congress to pass the Paycheck Fairness Act, but the president can protect 22 percent of the nation’s workforce, or 26 million people, with the stroke of his pen.‎ ‎That’s real progress right now. Just because Congress is stuck doesn’t mean the president has to be—and American women don’t either.
Giving employees the ability to discuss salaries without fear of retaliation or being fired means that people like Lilly might not have to spend decades being paid significantly less than their male counterparts before finding out about such disparities. The president’s executive order would enable the type of open dialogue often associated with a smaller gender pay gap.
The five-year anniversary of Lilly’s law is the perfect time for this call to President Obama and Congress to renew efforts to close the gender pay gap. In fact, Lilly will join the AAUW Action Fund Capitol Hill Lobby Corps on Capitol Hill this week to meet with key members of Congress who have yet to support the Paycheck Fairness Act. We will remind them that equal pay for equal work is critical to helping families make ends meet, pay for mortgages and college tuition, save for retirement, and put food on the table.

Five years after the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, we didn’t expect to still be walking the halls of Congress urging passage of the Paycheck Fairness Act. We expected progress to have been made on equal pay. That’s why we need the president to put part of the Paycheck Fairness Act in place right away for the employees of federal contractors—and to put equal pay back on the national agenda.

With the president’s executive order, we would be much closer to where we need to be on equal pay for equal work. It’s time to make history again.

Lilly Ledbetter was the plaintiff in the discrimination case Ledbetter v. Goodyear GT -0.45% Tire & Rubber Co. and the namesake for the first bill President Obama signed into law. She is the honorary public policy chair for AAUW of Alabama. Linda D. Hallman, CAE CAE -1.24%, is executive director and CEO of the American Association of University Women. For more than 25 years, Hallman has made her mark as an association innovator, and she is a frequent speaker on women’s issues, finance, leadership, and management. In 2013, she was recognized as one of 100 Women Leaders in STEM by STEMConnector.

While I was a student at the university of Tennessee, income inequality was a major issue among the faculty.

Female professors earned considerably less than male professors, and the women were all pissed off about it.

I had a business statistics professor show something interesting in class one day, however. He dissected the data in such a way that actually showed women made slightly more than men.

What was the difference?

He didn't take professors across the university as a whole, he broke them down to the specific departments and colleges they were in. Male and female professors were about equally represented in each college, except for the colleges of nursing, business and law. Females dominated the college of nursing, while men were more prevalent in the colleges of law and business.

This difference is what skewed the results. He said that universities tend to pay professors what they would make in the professional world. For instance, in determining a salary for a professor in the college of law, they based it on what a lawyer might make.

So when it was looked at with this perspective, since lawyers typically make more than nurses, and females made up pretty much the whole college of nursing, nursing professors drug down the average salary of female professors. And since lawyers and business folks tend to make more than other professions, those male dominated colleges tended to drag up the average salary for men.

But in other colleges where men and women were more equally represented in the faculty, the female professors were paid slightly more than their male counterparts.

This is just one example, but I would be interested to see how these calculations of women making less than men are calculated and the methodology used to get the figures.

Not saying income inequality doesn't exist, I'm just dubious that the gap is as wide as it is said to be, and that where it is, there might well be a valid reason for it, like in my example above.

 

[Beagler]

I was half expecting the Pres to say he would use his pen to do away with the 22 amendment

Always get a laugh at all the groupies lined up to shake his hand as he enters the hall

All in all, I think the speech was very forgetable, but I'm sure Chris Mathews got another tingle up his left leg

 

[Uncle Ben]

How times does the American public have to be lied to to really get it? We didn't waste our time listening to the Liar-in-Chief. Started Django Unchained, got the last half to watch tonight. WOW! What a movie!

 

[SirGreenThumb]

Just cause I know this will set some people off.

Enjoy!

[h=1]Bush speechwriter accuses Obama of plagiarism in State of the Union[/h][video=youtube;CO2mLIs__xo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO2mLIs__xo[/video]

A former speechwriter for President George W. Bush accused President Barack Obama of plagiarizing one of Bush's speeches for the Tuesday evening State of the Union address.
Marc Thiessen, who served as Bush's lead speechwriter for his 2007 State of the Union speech, told Megyn Kelly of Fox News, "Barack Obama has gone from blaming George W. Bush to plagiarizing George W. Bush."
Politco reports:
Thiessen then read phrases from the 2007 speech which focused on the theme "hope and opportunity." "It was eerily familiar. There were lines like 'Our job is to help Americans build a future of hope and opportunity, a future of hope and opportunity begins with a growing economy, a future of hope and opportunity requires that all citizens have affordable and available health care, extending opportunity and hope depends on a stable supply of energy,' all of that came from the 2007 State of the Union from George W. Bush," Thiessen said.
Poliico writes that none of Obama's lines "were directly lifted" from Bush's 2007 address, though in both speeches the presidents repeatedly used versions of the word "opportunity" and both concluded with stories about veterans who had been wounded in combat.
A transcript of Obama's speech is available here. Bush's 2007 speech can be read here.
This isn't the first time Obama has been accused of plagiarism in a State of the Union address. In 2011, Alvin Felzenberg, presidential scholar and former spokesman for the 9/11 Commission, wrote an op-ed for U.S. News and World Report stating the Obama's speech "contained enough recycled ideas and lines lifted from speeches of others to make historians wince."
However, President Bush was not immune to similar accusations. In 2010, a Huffington Post reporter accused Bush of lifting passages of his memoir from the books of his advisers.

 

[althor]

The problem is, in too many cases it is not "equal" work, even if the title is the same.
Of course, I am not making a blanket statement on all sectors, but in many sectors only the wage is the same.
See it all the time at Fed Ex. Women make up an equal share of the workforce, even at the HUB. They call the guys over to lift anything they consider too heavy. You end up with women standing around pointing while men are hussling over to do their jobs for them, plus continuing their own work.

 

[Rak on Tur']

Watched about 20 minutes of it, then decided to go stargazing with my grandchildren instead. I don't see how people buy into these politicians garbage. Every last one of them can care less about the citizens. They are more concerned about elections than doing what is right.

Intellectual honesty is long dead in the US, and we are getting exactly what we deserve.

 

[schuylaar]

While I was a student at the university of Tennessee, income inequality was a major issue among the faculty.

Female professors earned considerably less than male professors, and the women were all pissed off about it.

I had a business statistics professor show something interesting in class one day, however. He dissected the data in such a way that actually showed women made slightly more than men.

What was the difference?

He didn't take professors across the university as a whole, he broke them down to the specific departments and colleges they were in. Male and female professors were about equally represented in each college, except for the colleges of nursing, business and law. Females dominated the college of nursing, while men were more prevalent in the colleges of law and business.

This difference is what skewed the results. He said that universities tend to pay professors what they would make in the professional world. For instance, in determining a salary for a professor in the college of law, they based it on what a lawyer might make.

So when it was looked at with this perspective, since lawyers typically make more than nurses, and females made up pretty much the whole college of nursing, nursing professors drug down the average salary of female professors. And since lawyers and business folks tend to make more than other professions, those male dominated colleges tended to drag up the average salary for men.

But in other colleges where men and women were more equally represented in the faculty, the female professors were paid slightly more than their male counterparts.

This is just one example, but I would be interested to see how these calculations of women making less than men are calculated and the methodology used to get the figures.

Not saying income inequality doesn't exist, I'm just dubious that the gap is as wide as it is said to be, and that where it is, there might well be a valid reason for it, like in my example above.

Well you have case law ..I provided the link, I'm sure that you can find example of calculations how they got to that number; also, google is your best friend

 

[schuylaar]

Just cause I know this will set some people off.

Enjoy!

Bush speechwriter accuses Obama of plagiarism in State of the Union

[video=youtube;CO2mLIs__xo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO2mLIs__xo[/video]

A former speechwriter for President George W. Bush accused President Barack Obama of plagiarizing one of Bush's speeches for the Tuesday evening State of the Union address.
Marc Thiessen, who served as Bush's lead speechwriter for his 2007 State of the Union speech, told Megyn Kelly of Fox News, "Barack Obama has gone from blaming George W. Bush to plagiarizing George W. Bush."
Politco reports:
Thiessen then read phrases from the 2007 speech which focused on the theme "hope and opportunity." "It was eerily familiar. There were lines like 'Our job is to help Americans build a future of hope and opportunity, a future of hope and opportunity begins with a growing economy, a future of hope and opportunity requires that all citizens have affordable and available health care, extending opportunity and hope depends on a stable supply of energy,' all of that came from the 2007 State of the Union from George W. Bush," Thiessen said.
Poliico writes that none of Obama's lines "were directly lifted" from Bush's 2007 address, though in both speeches the presidents repeatedly used versions of the word "opportunity" and both concluded with stories about veterans who had been wounded in combat.
A transcript of Obama's speech is available here. Bush's 2007 speech can be read here.
This isn't the first time Obama has been accused of plagiarism in a State of the Union address. In 2011, Alvin Felzenberg, presidential scholar and former spokesman for the 9/11 Commission, wrote an op-ed for U.S. News and World Report stating the Obama's speech "contained enough recycled ideas and lines lifted from speeches of others to make historians wince."
However, President Bush was not immune to similar accusations. In 2010, a Huffington Post reporter accused Bush of lifting passages of his memoir from the books of his advisers.

Im going to repeatedly use the word "peen" today and if I catch anyone else using it I'm going to call them a plagiarist

 

[schuylaar]

Although purple, bulbous would only be considered "indirectly lifted"

 

[UncleBuck]

i want to put my peen in a warm biscuit.