ISLAM - just clearing a few things up for ya'll

Jordy Villain

Well-Known Member
nice post, man. By Israel being supported, armed, and funded by our government we made ourselves definite targets.
Just a note that the fundamentalist Islamic Jihad on the U.S. only started when we stationed troops in Saudi Arabia. That was our official 'desecration' of the Holy Land. A bunch of bs really..
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
nice post, man. By Israel being supported, armed, and funded by our government we made ourselves definite targets.
Just a note that the fundamentalist Islamic Jihad on the U.S. only started when we stationed troops in Saudi Arabia. That was our official 'desecration' of the Holy Land. A bunch of bs really..
Since when have we been targets of the palestinians? All they really want is their land back, we haven't taken any.

Actually you've made a good point. When I said that we no longer have a stronghold in the muslim world, I was wrong. Israel is that stronghold, our Constantinople. The Israeli's have gotten away with far worse atrocities than Saddam Hussein, which shows our true motives in the East. the Israeli secret service is probably the best in the world. Nobody understands a terrorist better than these guys.

There are two sides in this war. Crying and whinging about innocents is not going to stop the fact that we are in the midst of war. It is the muslims that first claimed this to be a holy war, calling ALL muslims to arms. They've had enough of our robbery, and we haven't had enough to stop doing it. We are at an impasse, either one side backs down or one has to be destroyed. The future is clear, for us to prosper we need to think with one mind, have one clear goal. There are going to be more casualties as we achieve this, and achieve it we will. religion is dead, we need to replace it with an ideal.
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
It seems that I am wrong. My opinion that there is really no such thing as a moderate muslim have evaporated.

It seems that in my country the moderate muslims are rising up, in Bradford. Rival factions of muslims are fighting in the city.

Is this the sign we have been waiting for? The moderate muslims to finally decide which side they are on... Maybe it is the fighting in Pakistan that is finally forcing the muslim world to make a decision.

Now, it is just the Taliban that stand in the way...

Forgive my ignorance...
 

Jordy Villain

Well-Known Member
It seems that I am wrong. My opinion that there is really no such thing as a moderate muslim have evaporated.

It seems that in my country the moderate muslims are rising up, in Bradford. Rival factions of muslims are fighting in the city.

Is this the sign we have been waiting for? The moderate muslims to finally decide which side they are on... Maybe it is the fighting in Pakistan that is finally forcing the muslim world to make a decision.

Now, it is just the Taliban that stand in the way...

Forgive my ignorance...
what you're missing is that those crazy fuckers don't represent all of islam. its just like there being some soccer fights in the U.S. and then I say oh there's nothing such as a peaceful football match worldwide because we have crazy hooligans here. atleast 80% of the world's muslims are ACTUALLY following islam, which is a religion of peace.
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
what you're missing is that those crazy fuckers don't represent all of islam. its just like there being some soccer fights in the U.S. and then I say oh there's nothing such as a peaceful football match worldwide because we have crazy hooligans here. atleast 80% of the world's muslims are ACTUALLY following islam, which is a religion of peace.
I see that more now. I did before, but the moderate muslims seemed to be doing little about the extremists. Allowing hate to be preached in their mosques, and there was no REAL evidence that there was such a thing as a moderate muslim (at least not to someone like myself). I think that the 80% you speak of have finally taken note of the way people like myself were/are feeling and realise that they need to do something about it. In my country we have very large muslim communities. Black, white and muslim youths have all been fighting in my country, it's largely kept out of the media, and I think the moderate muslims have finally had enough of being labled.

The Taliban are spreading very quickly, and if they take Pakistan... they will hold a massive position of power.
 

preoQpydDlusion

Well-Known Member
aggression towards the ignorant is just as bad as racism. most ppl are prejudiced against muslims because they dont know any better, not because they stubbornly ignore their better judgment.

i think its funny that middle-easterners have caught so much bullshit over the past few years. supposedly, folks assume that because they come from an arab nation that they are muslim (all my chaldean(sp?) friends are christian), and on top of that, their assumed to be sympathetic towards terrorists. does anybody remember when Islam was connected to blacks? when malcom x was raising hell the word 'muslim' was accompanied by a thought of black suits and the Nation of Islam.


making a big deal about prejudice bs isnt going to solve the problem. by ranting, u continue to spread a message of hate that continues to infect the population, even if u mean well. if u want to live in a world without hatred, do it. ignore all the bullshit. all these bigots are going to end up killing each other one day, and even if they dont, we're all going to have to join together if we dont want to be annihilated when the aliens come :mrgreen:
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
aggression towards the ignorant is just as bad as racism. most ppl are prejudiced against muslims because they dont know any better, not because they stubbornly ignore their better judgment.

i think its funny that middle-easterners have caught so much bullshit over the past few years. supposedly, folks assume that because they come from an arab nation that they are muslim (all my chaldean(sp?) friends are christian), and on top of that, their assumed to be sympathetic towards terrorists. does anybody remember when Islam was connected to blacks? when malcom x was raising hell the word 'muslim' was accompanied by a thought of black suits and the Nation of Islam.


making a big deal about prejudice bs isnt going to solve the problem. by ranting, u continue to spread a message of hate that continues to infect the population, even if u mean well. if u want to live in a world without hatred, do it. ignore all the bullshit. all these bigots are going to end up killing each other one day, and even if they dont, we're all going to have to join together if we dont want to be annihilated when the aliens come :mrgreen:
I think it'll be us that comes to the Aliens.
 

j_g

Active Member
I still say the best answer to 911 would have been a big ass bomb in the sand.
Ahh, the ever popular glass factory approach


It appears, OP, that you have gotten a few facts mixed up.

First and foremost "we Americans" did not start this "shit." Britain, in the Sanremo Conference of 1920, was given control of the former Ottoman Empire's land in the region we now know as Israel, Palestine, Jordan, and Iraq. During WWI, the British promised the local Arabs of the region an independent Arab state in return for their support, and the Britain had promised to create and foster a Jewish national home as laid out in the Balfour Declaration of 1917.

The Palestinians didn't like the deal that they had made, and by June 15, 1920, attacks on the Jews had become such a threat, that the Jews established the Haganah (a paramilitary group). Between 1936 and 1939, the "Great Uprising" took place. In this time period, the Palestinians attacked the Jews (and yes, they used terrorist tactics), and the Jews attacked the Palestinians (and yes, the Jews were just as bad as the Arabs).

And then WWII started... Some Palestinians enlisted in the British Army, but others, such as Haj Amin Al-Husseini, declared jihad on the allied powers. War is hell blah blah blah... and the War ends. We now have a very chaotic Palestine/Israel. The UN steps in, and following the recommendations of the UNSCOP (United Nations Special Committee on Palestine; a group of member states, not including the "Great Power", who's job was to come up with a plan for Palestine) officially, taking affect after the British pullout, created two independent counties.

Little stuff takes place, and on June 5, 1967, the Six Day War commenced. It was not Israel who started the conflict, but the "peaceful Muslims."

Which by the way for you ignorant shits is MUSLIM holy grounds. Have you ever heard of Islamic violence & extremism before this? Fuck no
If you say "holy lands" everybody knows what you are talking about. This is because the "holy lands" are not just considered the closest location to heaven by Mohammedans, but considered holy by Jews and Christians alike.

And if we truly weren't "ignorant shits", we would have heard about "Islamic violence & extremism."
So who's the ignorant shit now? "Just clearing a few things up for ya'll" :hump:




 

skunkushybrid

New Member
The Palestinians had obviously been tricked in some way... there is no way a muslim would live next door to a jew willingly. No way.

Why do Muslims HATE jews? I know the christians hate them because of their betrayal of JC, but why do all muslims hate the jews?

I'd say that it was Israel that started the conflict, whether intentionally or not. Why would a jew even think they could live peacefully next door to a muslim? Why would the jews believe they would be welcome?

It doesn't make any sense.
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
I'm also a little confused with your dates.

Wasn't Israel formed in palestine after world war 2? Britain was under pressure to find a home for all the survivors of the holocaust as not a single country wanted them. At this period of time everybody had a bad taste in their mouth at the sight of a jew... not just the germans, the british, americans, fucking everybody hated or disliked the jews.

So, nobody else wants them... and we are expected to believe that the muslims did?

Fuck off.
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
I've done some checking, and here is what I found:


The Birth of Isreal
[FONT=Verdana, Arial][SIZE=-1]The state of Israel was proclaimed by the Jewish leader, David Ben Gurion, on May 14, 1948, and officially came into being on the 15th, after British Mandatory rule ended at midnight. In many minds, the birth of Israel is closely identified with the Nazi terror in Europe and the Holocaust, but in fact the conception of and planning for a Jewish state had begun some 60 years earlier. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]The Messianic idea of returning the Jews to their "promised land" had been a Puritan religious belief since the 16th Century. In the mid-19th Century, British politicians saw another value: that of having in place in the Middle East a Jewish entity sympathetic to the British Empire. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]Two phenomena made real these and the Jews' own previously vague aspirations of "return": the burgeoning European nationalism of the time, from which the Jews felt excluded; and the massacres, or pogroms, carried out by Tsarist Russia against its six million Jews, the largest single Jewish population in Europe, which spread into the Ukraine and Poland. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]By the 1880s, groups of desperate Russian and other Eastern European Jews were settling in Palestine, which was under the somewhat tenuous authority of the Turkish Ottoman Empire.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]The visionary Austrian-Jewish journalist, Theodore Herzl, clarified and gave political weight to the concept of Jewish nationalism - or Zionism - and a national home for the Jews in Palestine at the first Zionist Congress at Basle, in Switzerland, in 1897. He won wide Jewish backing for it, and tried, at first unsuccessfully, to encourage the British Government to support it. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]It was not until World War I, when British forces were at the gates of Jerusalem, in November, 1917, that the British Foreign Secretary, Arthur Balfour, anxious for Jewish support in the war, issued his epic yet ambiguous Declaration. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]This said the Government viewed "with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine..." [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]The Turks defeated, the British ruled Palestine as a military authority from 1917 until 1922. Then the League of Nations awarded Britain the Mandate to govern Palestine and prepare its citizens for self-government. From that moment, Jewish immigration from Europe increased phenomenally, with the British Cabinet pledged rigorously to honour Balfour's promise of a Jewish homeland, as it was interpreted by the Zionists. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]Already during the 1930s, the displacement of the Arab population began The Arabs of Palestine, not even referred to by name in Balfour's document, were increasingly angry at what they feared would be their eventual replacement and domination by an alien, inspired and technologically superior people of different religion. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]Bloody inter-communal rioting broke out during the 1920s, the most notorious example perhaps being the massacres of some 60 religious Jews in the town of Hebron, about 20 miles south west of Jerusalem. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]The situation intensified in the 1930s as Nazism spread across Europe, bringing more persecution and more and even more sophisticated and determined Jews to Palestine. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]The Arabs were incensed. In 1936, they rose in armed revolt, mainly against the British rulers they saw as authors of their plight. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]But they were disorganised, factional and poorly equipped. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]British soldiers searching Arabs during the revolt in the late 1930s By 1939, the British had crushed the uprising, ending for good effective Arab resistance to the Mandatory Power and the Zionist planners, and leaving behind a fractured Palestinian-Arab society. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]The Arab resentment, however, did force the British, first, to abandon a plan to partition Palestine into Arab and Jewish sectors; and seriously to restrict Jewish immigration at that very crucial moment, in 1939-40, when Hitler was at his most dangerous, conquering Europe and launching his mission to exterminate the Jewish people. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]The British idea was that the Arabs would rule Palestine, inside which would be established a finite Jewish entity. It was the Zionists' turn to be outraged and to work, successfully, to explode this stratagem.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]In 1948, the Jews in Palestine managed to establish their own state, Israel. The price to pay were decades of war and violence. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]The contrast between the growing Jewish society in Palestine - the Yishuv - and the indigenous, mainly Muslim Arab population could not have been greater.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]In 1917, two-thirds of the roughly 600,000 Arab population, were rural and village-based, with local, clannish loyalties and little connection with the towns. What passed for "national" Arab leadership was based in the towns, though there was little national identity. Two or three established, rival families dominated Palestinian politics. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]The majority of the Jews arriving in Palestine were well organised, motivated and skilled. In the early 1920s, they set up an underground army, the Haganah, or Defence. A Jewish shadow government was set up, with departments which looked after every aspect of society: education, trades unions, farmers, the "kibbutzim" settlements that spread across Palestine, the law, and political parties. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]During World War II, Haganah fighters joined the British Army, acquiring military skills and experience. Not so the Arabs. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]At the same time, extremist groups such as the Irgun Zwei Leumi and the Lehi, or Stern Group, began a brutal campaign of assassinations, bombings, kidnappings, intimidations, disruptions and sabotage. Their actions were directed against Briton, Arab and even Jews. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]During the World War, the Zionist movement clearly defined its objective as a dominant Jewish state in Palestine. Deep plans were laid.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]After 1945, as the facts and consequences of Hitler's death camps became evident, the Jewish underground intensified the terror campaign to oust the British, whom they accused of Arab sympathies. Jewish organisations tried to restart unlimited immigration. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial]Enormous emotional and political support for the Zionists came from the United States. The enfeebled postwar British Government no longer had the strength or the stomach to control Palestine or try to find a middle way that would suit both Jews and Arabs. [/FONT][/SIZE]
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
[FONT=Verdana, Arial][SIZE=-1]
Arabs rioted followed the UN vote

Britain handed the problem to the United Nations. On November 29, 1947, the UN General Assembly voted to partition Palestine into Jewish and Arab sectors.

There was violent and total Arab opposition, but wild Jewish acclaim. Fighting started almost immediately.

Even before the mandate ended, in April and May, Jewish fighters moved to protect, consolidate and widen the territory for the new Jewish state. Often they attacked areas designated for Arabs, and tried to depopulate Arab areas in the planned Jewish sector.

On April 9, Jewish fighters massacred more than 200 Palestinian villagers, including old people, women and children, in the West Jerusalem village of Deir Yassin, causing widespread panic and greatly augmenting the flight of Palestinians from their homes across the country.

As the Jewish authorities had predicted, Arab armies from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon tried to invade Palestine as soon as the British forces actually left. But the Arab campaign was a generally badly organised, uncoordinated affair with untrained units who were no match for the Haganah and, later, the Israeli Defence Force.

The Palestinian militias and other Arab irregulars were also easily crushed.

There was one exception: the British-trained and British-officered Arab Legion, under the command of King Abdullah of Jordan. But it was constrained financially and politically by the British-dominated King, who had already colluded with the Jewish leaders on territorial matters and who had ambitions in Palestine.

The Arab Legion, therefore, was restricted to defending territory in and around East Jerusalem and the Old City and on the West Bank of the Jordan, which it did successfully.

By the middle of 1949 up to 700,000 of about 900,000 Palestinian Arabs had left the affected region, forced out by a combination of Jewish/Israeli terror tactics, the frightening thrust of war, the contagious panic of local residents, fractious and incompetent Arab leadership, the flight of some richer and therefore influential families and the actual sale of Arab land to the Jews without coercion, often by absentee Arab landlords.

These Palestinians had fled from their homes for ever, though they did not know it at the time. They ended up in the refugee camps of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egyptian-run Gaza and in the Palestinian territory of the West Bank, which was ruled by the Jordanian King Abdullah, as was Arab East Jerusalem.

Those Palestinian refugees and their descendants in the region now number more than three million. Israel has since refused to allow the refugees to return as long as Arab states remain pledged to its destruction, often claiming that there was no room for them anyway.

Peace treaties and agreements with Egypt, Jordan and the Palestinian movement have not altered this.

In 1917, there had been 50,000 or so Jews in Palestine. By 1948, they had become 650,000 Israelis. At the same time, the majority of Palestinian Arabs had left Israel; only 200,000 or so withstood the war and other depradations and remained in Israel.

Israel became a state on May 15, 1948, and was recognised by the United States and the Soviet Union that same day.

Israel's Arab neighbours , however, united their forces to drive the Jews out of Palestine.

BY: Tim Llewellyn.

Israel - Land of Apartheid By Professor Tanya Reinhart, September 2000

[/SIZE][/FONT]​
 

TheConstantGardner

Well-Known Member
I don't understand...

are you saying that you don't condone carpet bombing desserts full of malnurished children..

or are you saying that it is cool.. to bomb the fuck out of innocent children

as long as THE intentions are

1. to preserve the right to have drive through starbucks for people who accidenatlly got to FAT and now cant get out of their Escalade..
2. we use smart bombs aand the kids only get killed by accident
3. we don't send any of our own kids to do the fighting..

iloveyou
I never said I agreed to carpet bombing children, nor do I agree with flying stolen jets into occupied buildings full of civilians. At least we aim for military and terrorist forces, not intentionally kill innocents.
 

Garden Knowm

The Love Doctor
I never said I agreed to carpet bombing children, nor do I agree with flying stolen jets into occupied buildings full of civilians. At least we aim for military and terrorist forces, not intentionally kill innocents.
I see... I hope I did not come across rude... that was not my intention..

i am trying to figure out f you think it is ok to KILL under certain circumstances.. and if your answer is yes.. then my comment back is..

when ever somebody attacks.... regardless if it is military or not...

peoples moms, sisters, dads, brothers, wifes, etc get killed.. and that ripple of pain and negativity is not something that heals quickly... killing people, because they kill your family... may seem normal to an emotionl immature being... BUT the truth is ALL LIFE as equal... and once someonebecomes aware that we are all brothers and sisters (which takes very little awareness) one realizes it is doing nothing GOOD for the world as a WHOLE to kill another human.. under ANY circumstance..

iloveyou


KILLING is killing... it does matter weather you kill Hitler or the Dali Lama... the reprucussions are the same... we are all the same.... we can only see what we are... all the hatred that people see in others.... IT is really themselves they are seeing..
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
I see... I hope I did not come across rude... that was not my intention..

i am trying to figure out f you think it is ok to KILL under certain circumstances.. and if your answer is yes.. then my comment back is..

when ever somebody attacks.... regardless if it is military or not...

peoples moms, sisters, dads, brothers, wifes, etc get killed.. and that ripple of pain and negativity is not something that heals quickly... killing people, because they kill your family... may seem normal to an emotionl immature being... BUT the truth is ALL LIFE as equal... and once someonebecomes aware that we are all brothers and sisters (which takes very little awareness) one realizes it is doing nothing GOOD for the world as a WHOLE to kill another human.. under ANY circumstance..

iloveyou


KILLING is killing... it does matter weather you kill Hitler or the Dali Lama... the reprucussions are the same... we are all the same.... we can only see what we are... all the hatred that people see in others.... IT is really themselves they are seeing..
Excellent post gk. Gave me a lot of food for thought. I have felt this way myself before then dismissed them once emotions set in again. We all realise exactly what you've said gk, the trouble is just trying to remember it.
 

TheConstantGardner

Well-Known Member
I agree with you GK, killing is wrong but little can stop it. People have been warring with each other since we came down out of the trees (going to spark an evolution debate here). Each new technology we create allows us to wage war with greater efficiency. We used to battle for territory, now we battle for control of resources and because of religious differences. That will never change. People speak of world peace, but that dream is ultimately unobtainable as long as there are governments in existence. Our fear of each other leads us to building bigger and better weapons to destroy each other with. Maybe we should have more women as leaders. There would be no wars, only serious negotiations every 28 days :)
 

j_g

Active Member
KILLING is killing... it does matter weather you kill Hitler or the Dali Lama... the reprucussions are the same... we are all the same.... we can only see what we are... all the hatred that people see in others.... IT is really themselves they are seeing..
As the Jews and Christians believe (although they definitely don't always show it), it is a sin against God to kill anyone; For God values everyone regardless of race or religion.
 
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