Dave's First LED Grow Using Area 51

[Balke Buds]

Dave,
prolly too late at this point because everything is set up but maybe next time you have that res empty you could use those furniture mover skids they sell on late night TV. You know, the ones they sell for one person to be able to move a house by themself....it will give you the extra couple of inches that dolly takes up.

 

[daveroller]

Dave,
prolly too late at this point because everything is set up but maybe next time you have that res empty you could use those furniture mover skids they sell on late night TV. You know, the ones they sell for one person to be able to move a house by themself....it will give you the extra couple of inches that dolly takes up.

That's an interesting idea. I've never found any furniture movers that really work good, though. Are you talking about those slippery discs that stick onto the feet of a piece of furniture? I'm not sure if they'd work on tile, either.

 

[Scotch089]

I'm very curious to see the 'white' under this panel...

 

[daveroller]

I'm very curious to see the 'white' under this panel...

I don't think it's a problem with the panel at all. And on closer inspection, it looks like some kind of nute problem. Here's the second worst leaf close up:

Here are a few more in the middle and bottom-right of this photo:

This was the worst one, found deep inside the bush:

I also noticed these spotty leaves:

What does this look like to you? I gotta wear my glasses when I check on this plant! It didn't look so bad until I looked at it closely today.

 

[The Dawg]

Kewl Atleast You Not Dealing With The Mold.Brother What Im Seeing Is What I Think Is A Mag Lockout Cause By Adding Too Much Cal/Mag. I Went Through Various Stages Of This Problem Myself.Brother Take A Measuring Shot Glass And Put Lets Say 15ml.Let It Set A Few Minutes To Settle,Now You Can See How Much Cal And How Little Mag You Adding To Your Solution.If Your Like The Rest Of Us Wen We Start Having These Problems The First Thing We Do Is Add More Cal/Mag And Add More And Add More Causing A Lockout.Here's What Ive Done.1st week Of Veg I Run 2.5ml Per Gallon The Second Week Of Veg I Up It To 5ml Leaving Their The Whole Grow.Now The First Week Of Flower I Add 1/4 Teaspoon Of Kool Bloom Not As A Bloom Enhancer Rather As A Sourse For More Mag,Hope This Helps Ya Out Brother.

P.S I Told Ya This Problem Would Keep Rearing Its Ugly Head.

 

[Scotch089]

Pic #2 and 3 look like Phosphorus problems, pic 1, 4, and 5 look are calcium...


I doubt you are not giving them enough of either of though, an saturation of one element will lock out the other... maybe too much P or K, looking out the other (respectively) along with Iron, Zinc, Sulphur..

that'd explain the "blending" of the colors in the leaves, a whole plant shot would help too, get an idea where it originated (mobile-immobile nutes)


EDIT: and yes, dawg was on it! calcium will bind up to EVERYTHING! (ie your lockouts)

 

[daveroller]

Oh yeah! After thinking a while I figured part of this out: too much nute. Took me long enough. You're right, Mr Dawg. I added more Cal/Mag last week because I thought there was a deficiency. It is a harder problem than I thought. Crap! The tds should have clued me in during the middle of the week. It fell from day to day, but not very much.

I'm going to REALLY water down the res tomorrow. I just added fresh nutes earlier tonight after doing a 24 hour root flush. Hopefully, there hasn't been enough time to clog them up again. I'm thinking of lowering it to around 600-700 ppm. Does that sound about right? Last week it was just over 1200 ppm. Or should I just cut out the Cal/Mag altogether and lower the tds more moderately, like maybe 1000 ppm?

Thanks for your observations, guys. That's real good info.

 

[daveroller]

that'd explain the "blending" of the colors in the leaves, a whole plant shot would help too, get an idea where it originated (mobile-immobile nutes)

Got some pics of the plant that I'll post tomorrow when I get a chance. I picked a bunch of fan leaves off when I did the water change, mostly bad ones, but some big green ones too, in order to let more light into the bush. Thought I'd try some defoliation.

 

[Shwagbag]

If you're adding cal mag to your reservoir in between changes I guarantee its also effecting your PH. As long as you're calibrating and tracking PH constantly to be certain PH is not the culprit you will get to the bottom of it. Most lockouts are due to PH drifting rather than anything else. It looks like you have some experienced hydro growers here to help you out

In the meantime, I would find a very fast way to get some foliar calcium to those plants NOW.

Man I really love organic gardening lol. Its just so much easier for me to prepare the substrate and just add water. I hope you get a handle on it soon Dave!

 

[greatbranch]

If you're adding cal mag to your reservoir in between changes I guarantee its also effecting your PH. As long as you're calibrating and tracking PH constantly to be certain PH is not the culprit you will get to the bottom of it. Most lockouts are due to PH drifting rather than anything else. It looks like you have some experienced hydro growers here to help you out

In the meantime, I would find a very fast way to get some foliar calcium to those plants NOW.

Man I really love organic gardening lol. Its just so much easier for me to prepare the substrate and just add water. I hope you get a handle on it soon Dave!

Hey, Shwag, tell my mama I said "What's up?!" - - lol...that location cracks me up every time I see it.

 

[Balke Buds]

Hey, Shwag, tell my mama I said "What's up?!" - - lol...that location cracks me up every time I see it.

I was just like wtf is he talking about....I never, not once, got past the avatar...damn fine specimen of an ass!

Dave, good luck! (had to make this post legit)

 

[Balke Buds]

That's an interesting idea. I've never found any furniture movers that really work good, though. Are you talking about those slippery discs that stick onto the feet of a piece of furniture? I'm not sure if they'd work on tile, either.

From the floor to the top of the dolly...how many inches?
Formulating some diy options....thinking I can get you to 2.5 inches....Using caster wheels.

 

[daveroller]

Ok, I have a theory on what happened, besides my inattention. After I switched to flower I started adding a flowering nute called Big Bud. I was always adding Cal/Mag during veg because this plant needed it, and I continued to add it after switching to flower. My theory is that Big Bud contains some more CalMag of its own, so maybe the Ca and Mg from the Big Bud and the Cal/Mag supplement added up to too much and caused the initial lockout. Then the signs on the leaves looked like it needed MORE Cal/Mag. So I increased the dosage even more about a week ago. So the lockout got even worse. Took me a while to notice that the leaves got worse, because I wasn't looking at them close enough. (Didn't help that I wasn't wearing my glasses!)

Anyway, shortly after the lights came back on today I removed about half the res water and replaced it with pure RO. I didn't record the tds, but I think it was around 800 ppm and the pH was around 6.0. I popped my head in the cabinet a little while ago and was greeted with a strong odor of pot plant. I hope that's a good sign. I'll check the tds & pH again pretty soon.

 

[daveroller]

If you're adding cal mag to your reservoir in between changes I guarantee its also effecting your PH. As long as you're calibrating and tracking PH constantly to be certain PH is not the culprit you will get to the bottom of it. Most lockouts are due to PH drifting rather than anything else. It looks like you have some experienced hydro growers here to help you out

In the meantime, I would find a very fast way to get some foliar calcium to those plants NOW.

Man I really love organic gardening lol. Its just so much easier for me to prepare the substrate and just add water. I hope you get a handle on it soon Dave!

I might have to try organic sometime! I always thought it would be harder than hydro, but now I'm considering looking into it!

pH was dropping every day, but I was adjusting it up before it got too low. tds was always dropping pretty good at the same time until last week when it only dropped by about 100-200 ppm.

QUESTION: To do foliar feeding, should I just mix the nutes at the same strength as I would for my res water? I was thinking of foliar feeding it a mixture of Cal/Mag and maybe some Liquid Kool Bloom if I can find my old bottle of it.

 

[daveroller]

Pics from LAST night's water change (Feb 04):

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I experimented with some light defoliation. That's when I started noticing that some of the leaves had gotten worse since the original lockout that happened a couple weeks ago. Here's what the whole thing looks like from a distance:

The rest of the shots that I took last night will follow. I did some image processing on some that were originally overexposed in order to make the dark leaf color look accurate. There are some light areas that are probably just reflections, so don't think the whole plant is affected. The leaves are shiny on top.

 

[Scotch089]

..QUESTION: To do foliar feeding, should I just mix the nutes at the same strength as I would for my res water? I was thinking of foliar feeding it a mixture of Cal/Mag and maybe some Liquid Kool Bloom if I can find my old bottle of it.

No, you do not need any more Calcium, it would instigate more issues... you've got a good thing going Dave, what're you trying to do!?

In all seriousness.. I was in the car waiting for the ol' lady when I had read your original, did everything I could to reply as fast and concise as possible before you had sprayed them.. and of course the site said "database error!" when I tried to post. GAHH. Now im home and I can give an explanation

Calcium binds up to almost everything.. (no joke..) The reason you are getting these spots is an overdose, personally. Dawg had even mentioned to STOP adding calmag.

Google: Mulder's Chart.

Calcium literally binds to almost everything. An excess gives you the same symptoms, its just a learning process.

 

[DCobeen]

Like like like

 

[daveroller]

No, you do not need any more Calcium, it would instigate more issues... you've got a good thing going Dave, what're you trying to do!?

In all seriousness.. I was in the car waiting for the ol' lady when I had read your original, did everything I could to reply as fast and concise as possible before you had sprayed them.. and of course the site said "database error!" when I tried to post. GAHH. Now im home and I can give an explanation

Calcium binds up to almost everything.. (no joke..) The reason you are getting these spots is an overdose, personally. Dawg had even mentioned to STOP adding calmag.

Google: Mulder's Chart.

Calcium literally binds to almost everything. An excess gives you the same symptoms, its just a learning process.

I thought that everyone's advice was don't add calcium in the RES, but someone recommended foliar feeding Ca. I guess the theory would be that the leaves haven't been getting enough nutrient due to the ROOTS being clogged up. So you're saying that the LEAVES got too much nute, including Ca?

Ok, do you think that the leaves could use some foliar feeding of Magnesium then? Or should I just add some Kool Bloom to the res to give it more?

Edit: Or is it good right now without adding anything else? Don't worry, I won't do ANYTHING tonight!

 

[Scotch089]

Your leaves cant get too much nutes... your plant can.

Your plant is a system.

There may be 5 different ways to get the job done, but if one outlet is "at capacity.." then why would the other "outlets" be under capacity?

They are overfed, obviously they are doing great, but your leaves are very dark and cupping, slight tip burn (which is what I go by personally, this really tells you when you start getting toxic [Tip burn is the result of "lack of moisture," NO H2O!+] and varies from sativa's and ind's)

Mulder's Chart.

11 Nutes listed... all of them but 3 are in a Antagonistic Relationship with Calcium... and N is one of the three that do not get messed with.

I am looking in old folders to show you what my exp with calcium toxicity was like... split image of your spots.

In my exp a DEFICIENCY starts with yellow, a TOXICITY starts with spots.

EDIT:

Finally found them... also stumbled onto the post the day my Son was born.. too cool...



Early sign, starts at the lower parts first..

 

[Scotch089]

Kewl Atleast You Not Dealing With The Mold.Brother What Im Seeing Is What I Think Is A Mag Lockout Cause By Adding Too Much Cal/Mag. I Went Through Various Stages Of This Problem Myself.Brother Take A Measuring Shot Glass And Put Lets Say 15ml.Let It Set A Few Minutes To Settle,Now You Can See How Much Cal And How Little Mag You Adding To Your Solution.If Your Like The Rest Of Us Wen We Start Having These Problems The First Thing We Do Is Add More Cal/Mag And Add More And Add More Causing A Lockout.Here's What Ive Done.1st week Of Veg I Run 2.5ml Per Gallon The Second Week Of Veg I Up It To 5ml Leaving Their The Whole Grow.Now The First Week Of Flower I Add 1/4 Teaspoon Of Kool Bloom Not As A Bloom Enhancer Rather As A Sourse For More Mag,Hope This Helps Ya Out Brother.

P.S I Told Ya This Problem Would Keep Rearing Its Ugly Head.

The only one that suggested MORE was Shwathisname..

...how could I ever forget that ass?

EDIT:



I have this printed and hung in Narnia, golden piece of information. Better?