So the hydro shop would rather sell you a cheap hid rig than an expensive led rig? Gotcha. Why do you guys keep talking about "the stretch you get vegging with hps"? Thats what MH is for. The naysayers like me base our info off of you guys that use led, you all say the same thing, better gpw, double the veg time and a lower yield. Great, you can achieve a higher gpw with led by extending the veg time, great, I get it, but if I extend my veg time to 8 weeks under my hid, top and supercrop, then what? Im in south florida and weed prices are pretty steady, doesnt matter if its outdoor bud or hydro grown with led or hid, its either good or its not, I have never seen a price difference because of 1-2 thc percentage points. Yes, led is the future of indoor growing, but we live in the present, and presently nothing will beat MH/HPS grown bud for speed and yield. If led could match hid then you would have several side by sides with 2 identical tents, same veg times, same clones, and see who wins. Bout the time led is comporable to hid we will all be growing legally, outside under the sun. I order 2 new $30 bulbs every other grow but led guys are buying entire new led rigs every year or so because the shit they bought 8 months ago is old technology and the new panels are so much better.
Why So Many LED Haters?
- Thread starter PetFlora
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hyroot
Well-Known Member
hydro shop wants you to buy shit that doesn't last so you will come back and spend more money.. that's why they give such bad nutrient advice...
I don't know what led growers you got your info from but its not any of us. Obviously you have never looked at a single thread in the led section..
Led's veg much faster than any hps. with less stretch and more nodes... led's are the veg king.. Yields do not suffer. They are the same yield. Led grown buds are far better quality and much denser.
There are several side by sides. you just refuse to see them or even look. 600 watts of quality led or induction to equal a 1000w hps in yield. there are several grows on riu of people pulling around a pound off 310 watts of cree led. No one replaces led's year after year. They run them for at least 5 years. they ay buy new ones to add to what they already have.., Area 51 lights are upgradeable too.. in 5 years what ever new light is out i can upgrade for 50% of the cost. In 5 years if anything breaks on my led or induction. It gets fixed or replaced for free.. I have one buddy who has been running the same induction / led lights I have for 3 years now no issues and no spectral degrading. Hps start degrading after 6 months. 10% per month
lumens and watts are irrelevant to plant growth its all about par and cri ie spectral output. That's science and fact.
par is photosynthetically available radiation. Measurement of photons given off by a light source. Measured in µmole/s. The sun at midday is 2000 µmole/s at the surface of the ground.
cri - color rendering index. The higher the cri the more more even the spectral distribution. The more even the spectral distribution in combination with high par numbers the better the performance.
intensity is measured in lumens and has nothing to do with plant growth. Cree and Nichia led's put out more lumens per watt than any hps. Have more intensity.
Ushio , horfilux, digilux all have a cri of around 35. Allstart CMH have cri of 90-93. Cree leds cri is 80 and inda gro bulbs about 90. The par ranges are about the same for all lights. The hps deplete more further away. Led par numbers drop off towards the outer edge of the canopy. That's why multiple smaller panels are better than one large panel.
leds are here to stay and induction too. Not just in growing. But everywhere. Cars, city scapes, buildings, offices, signs, street lights, etc.
get with it or get left behind.
hps has 5-10 years maybe left in the grow market. They are obsolete everywhere else. There is so much money backing hps companies and they own all the other companies too. Its almost political..lol. JP Morgan is of one company that owns the majority of mercury mines. Which are used for hps. They have owned them since the 1800's. Jp morgan himself funded the first design of induction in 1886. He was not So happy with the longevity. He thought he would lose money from his mines. Of those lights were released. Instead he paid to have all production of florescent lighting banned from the U.S. And then commissioned incandescent and hps to be made. Then later the E.P.A banned florescent light production from the U.S. Hydro shop s will NOT say anything bad about hps. Or their products could be pulled. The hydro shop industry can be very shady. Alot of nutrient and lighting companies have secret shopper / spies. Cana and hydrofarm is notorious for that. If anything is being bad mouthed or sold to cheap. The spies report back and products get pulled.
you can get a 1000 w and fans for $600. Then $100 every 10 months for a new bulb. Extra $85-$100 a month in electricity. And $200-$300 every few years for a new ballast. Where inda gro has a 10 year warranty and area51 has a lifetime warranty. The lights have years and years of longevity. No bulb and ballast replacement. Electrical savings. In the long run induction and led are cheaper.
Myles117
Well-Known Member
i call complete BS on that lol
Why do you keep talking about vegging with hps? Thats what MH is for. Who replaces hid ballasts every 3 years? Not me. As far as led users buying new rigs because what they bought a year ago is outdated is pretty common in the led threads. What is the link where the side by side was done with identical veg times, identical tents, identical clones and training where led beat a hid? If led grows faster than hid then whats with the extended veg time?
hyroot
Well-Known Member
you keep bringing up vegging with led's. Veg time is only extended per preference as with any lighting. Per plant size and yield. I veg for 2 - 3 months. I rock 7 and 10 gals. buying new leds is common but nort replacing old ones . just expanding. theres threads all over the led section. apache tech even has video on you tube comparing 2 120 w led panels to a 600w hps..
i answered all these questions in the post before. Obviously you are not reading the whole thing.. search the led section for yourself. I'm not here to hold your hand. I'm not trying to convince you to go led. Just correcting the b.s. being spewed by the haters. Take it or don't. Its stupid and ignorant to bad mouth something you have no experience with or knowledge of...
SupraSPL
Well-Known Member
I cannot get the quality that I want from my favorite cuttings unless I use LED. I scrapped 1200 of HPS for 600 of LED and yield is improved along with nug quality. In the process of scrapping another 1200 HPS to experiment with COB LEDs.
My friend uses 400 MH to veg for 1800 HPS. I used 80W LED to veg for 2400 HPS. Soon to be improved to only 60W. Last month he ran into a $650 electric bill and mine was $200 and I pay extra for "green" power.
Cannot say enough about the potential for LED. More growers will come around as the tech and price improves.
My friend uses 400 MH to veg for 1800 HPS. I used 80W LED to veg for 2400 HPS. Soon to be improved to only 60W. Last month he ran into a $650 electric bill and mine was $200 and I pay extra for "green" power.
Cannot say enough about the potential for LED. More growers will come around as the tech and price improves.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Welcome brother! As you can see, in spite of my best effort, haters gonna hate. HOWEVER, I am not concerned about them. My intention here is to open the minds of those who aren't mind controlled
Check out www.astirgrow.com designed by growers who have contributed quite a bit to the DIY LED section. They make small panels which are ideal for coming at the plant/s from slightly different angles (much like a parabolic reflector), thereby increasing the amount of light below the large canopy leafs and increasing the size of lower buds. They're pretty cool guys. Tell them I/we (RIU led community) said Hi!
Check out www.astirgrow.com designed by growers who have contributed quite a bit to the DIY LED section. They make small panels which are ideal for coming at the plant/s from slightly different angles (much like a parabolic reflector), thereby increasing the amount of light below the large canopy leafs and increasing the size of lower buds. They're pretty cool guys. Tell them I/we (RIU led community) said Hi!
First I have to say that I came to this board because of the good led discussions here.
I am from Germany. And there is the problem that in the past at lot of led reports in the German boards never have been finished .
The mix of the amount of shitty panals added with the status of the technology before 2012 .that together made a lot of people sceptical. Including me.
So the time have nearly changed.
I came here because I see that the brake even is coming soon.
I am impressed by the Hans and diy panels. But they have to be in experienced hands.
The future will shine bright
I am a noon on LEDs but I hope all the reading here and some advice's will help me out to be ready for the future!
Vato
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Your inability to grasp the fact that vegging with MH is common practice because HPS will grow a stretched out plant is all I need to know, even after I pointed it out you still say it. Like I said, show me a grow where identical clones in identical tents with identical training and identical veg times and identical number of lights where the led yields more. I have looked because id buy one if it were so common.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Here Here But light noobs don't know which way to turn. As I have said in led threads, an uneducated consumer is their best customer. That is true, no matter what you buy
hyroot
Well-Known Member
actually mh will make more stretchy plants than hps in veg and the opposite in flower.
its marketing hype that has you brain washed thinking you need mh in veg and hps in flower. when you should have the same full spectrum in veg and flower. The sun never changes its spectrum. in late summer and fall. the sun does put IR light at sunset though
you have not looked or you would have found several. regardless there hundreds of threads of people pulling big yields with led, induction and t5 all over riu
I have used every light, 250w, 400w, 600w, 1000w, hps and mh and cmh (330w) ParT5, Led, Induction, Sunlight. I will never use hps again.
[video=youtube_share;d76ZF1hMaPg]http://youtu.be/d76ZF1hMaPg[/video]
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
JBone, I hear you. Keep in mind what I said about WHITE being the answer to attract mh/hps guys, as only they include the green- yellow- orange spectrums. Current versions using whites have only been available for ~ 2 years, and have improved dramatically in their current iterations. Plus they have sufficient blue to forgo MH s
Now, an A 51 costs a lot less than Apache, but both are excellent examples of what we all are looking for.
A 190w A 51 sells for ~ $575, and covers 2 x 3 area with very good penetration (go to their site for graphs).
I have grown 2 medium size plants, or one large plant under that same 2 x 3 with my hot5. But to do so, I have to turn over my 4ft tubes after every 2nd grow @ > $25/bulb, or ~ $160/year!
I think I can guarantee the current A 51 (or Apache Tech) will last a minimum of 3xs longer, BUT, with less than 10% lumen loss. So even if/when white leds take another quantum leap, the current version will still be damned good for ~ 10 years
Now, an A 51 costs a lot less than Apache, but both are excellent examples of what we all are looking for.
A 190w A 51 sells for ~ $575, and covers 2 x 3 area with very good penetration (go to their site for graphs).
I have grown 2 medium size plants, or one large plant under that same 2 x 3 with my hot5. But to do so, I have to turn over my 4ft tubes after every 2nd grow @ > $25/bulb, or ~ $160/year!
I think I can guarantee the current A 51 (or Apache Tech) will last a minimum of 3xs longer, BUT, with less than 10% lumen loss. So even if/when white leds take another quantum leap, the current version will still be damned good for ~ 10 years
I disagree with your my statement. I've noticed my plants stay with shorter and do not stretch as much with mh vs hps in veg.
Dumbest quote ever
hyroot
Well-Known Member
now I know you have very little experience growing if any hahaha
you are so so full of it. You never vegged with hps. You wouldn't have never made that statement if you had
all you do is reiterate someone else's words.
any grower experienced grower would not say anything like that. If you actually do grow and its not your friends grow. You are probably on your first or 2nd grow ever. If you were experienced you would know better.
gain some experience first noob before you try talk down to the vets here
I have vegged with hps. I'm not on my first or second or third or fourth grow.
What are your experience with the non white led. I have the California light works which isn't white, but have the 400w version which outputs 362w. Is the Area 51 far superior to this? Your thoughts are much appreciate!
I liked the UVB option that comes with the ss that's why I went that route. But reading your posts I might have goofed up.
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