Best theoretical political system

[Beefbisquit]

If everything worked as planned in your theoretical system, what do you believe would be the best form of government?

Dictatorship? Elected representation? True democracy?


I think that a benevolent dictator would probably be ideal if the citizens of this experimental 'world' were as they are in reality, mostly ignorant and uninformed. Surround the dictator with the best resources, and smartest people, and let them fix shit without interference from bureaucracy and lobbyists.

If everyone was an informed person with an interest in the well being of everyone else, I think a true democracy might work out...

 

[ChesusRice]

If everything worked as planned in your theoretical system, what do you believe would be the best form of government?

Dictatorship? Elected representation? True democracy?


I think that a benevolent dictator would probably be ideal if the citizens of this experimental 'world' were as they are in reality, mostly ignorant and uninformed. Surround the dictator with the best resources, and smartest people, and let them fix shit without interference from bureaucracy and lobbyists.

If everyone was an informed person with an interest in the well being of everyone else, I think a true democracy might work out...

The one we have now

 

[Beefbisquit]

The one we have now

You don't think it's..... bloated?

Electoral college system and all?

 

[NorthofEngland]

COMMUNISM
On paper Communism is perfect!
Mankind working for the betterment of ALL mankind.
EVERYONE getting enough to live lives free from poverty, hunger or treatable medical conditions.
Rather than one man being paid more money than could be spent in ten lifetimes, every year, whilst others earn so little they cannot afford to feed their children...
A controlled distribution of wealth, made possible by a centralised economy
Preventing the economic might of the few, from allowing the exploitation of the masses, purely in pursuit of profit for the few.
Whilst the majority are forced to be little more than cogs in the machinery of capitalism.

ALL MEN EQUAL.
NO MAN IS WORTH YACHTS AND PRIVATE JETS
WHILST OTHERS STARVE.
COMMUNISM - ALL THE ANSWERS NECESSARY FOR A MANMADE UTOPIAN SOCIETY!!!

In reality, of course, one set of leaders who use their financial power to exploit the less powerful
is replaced by a set of political leaders who use their political power to exploit the less powerful.
AND THE EXPLOITATION IS EVEN WORSE !

"DEMOCRACY IS THE WORST FORM OF GOVERNMENT, EXCEPT FOR ALL THE OTHER FORMS THAT HAVE BEEN TRIED FROM TIME TO TIME".
Winston Churchill
House of Commons Speech
November 11th 1947

 

[ChesusRice]

You don't think it's..... bloated?

Electoral college system and all?

You said if everything went as planned
The Founding Fathers had no way to envision the shit stain we have now. They actually thought we would have competant rational leaders in congress who were focused on the needs of their constituents

 

[Cocobud]

I recently spent several years living in the Southern Philippines. What they have there is called the Barangay System and I guess it's as close to cooperative anarchy as you could get...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barangay

In the face of a corrupt, ineffective and incompetent central government, the Barangay System worked very well at keeping things together at a local level and still giving the little guy a voice in what was going on.

Good system.

 

[NorthofEngland]

You don't think it's..... bloated?

Electoral college system and all?

You don't think the fact that the USA has to become more and more financially indebted to China, just to maintain its current standard of living, says something about the success of its political system?
Or is your answer a simple exercise in tub thumping, flag waving, Walt Disney Presents PATRIOTISM!!!!

iNTRO SCENE....
(background music - Star Spangled Banner)
Narration
"From the country that first freed the slaves, then forced the entire World to do the same...
From the nation where women have ALWAYS had the vote
And where the white settlers and the indigenous Natives found ways to co-exist in a peaceful and mutually considerate fashion....
WALT DISNEY PRESENTS
LAND OF THE FREE
Where the pleasures of today are bought at the cost of mortgaging our children's futures
to a Communist country with whom we share no political common ground or humanitarian standards.
The REPs are POP, the DEMs are MOM
and the electorate is L'il Billy Bob and Missy Sue.
and Lil Billy Bob aint gonna vote for Mom unless she gets in more debt to Evil Biff (China)
and buys him a MOTORBIKE.
Missy Sue will not vote for Pop unless he buys her a pony.
Pop will have to crawl on his belly to Evil Biff and beg for more money.
Biff is annoyed at Pop because Pop looked shocked when he saw Biff beating up his wife and kids (Chinese population)
Pop saw Biff urinate in his neighbours letterbox and pour motor oil on his flower beds.
Everyone likes the neighbour (Dalai Lama) but, for fear of Biff, they shun him like a leper with AIDS.

How can MOM and POP hope to successfully raise a family when their future planning rarely exceeds the next four years and NEVER exceeds the next eight?
When they take loans from evil people that will still be increasing well after their deaths.
When they have no choice but to take more debts because they have made promises that are massively beyond their financial resources.

Intro music reaches a crescendo
"Land of the Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee........................
and THE HOME................................................
OF THE..............................................
BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVE!!!!
Chinese buyers welcome

 

[Beefbisquit]

You don't think the fact that the USA has to become more and more financially indebted to China, just to maintain its current standard of living, says something about the success of its political system?
Or is your answer a simple exercise in tub thumping, flag waving, Walt Disney Presents PATRIOTISM!!!!

iNTRO SCENE....
(background music - Star Spangled Banner)
Narration
"From the country that first freed the slaves, then forced the entire World to do the same...
From the nation where women have ALWAYS had the vote
And where the white settlers and the indigenous Natives found ways to co-exist in a peaceful and mutually considerate fashion....
WALT DISNEY PRESENTS
LAND OF THE FREE
Where the pleasures of today are bought at the cost of mortgaging our children's futures
to a Communist country with whom we share no political common ground or humanitarian standards.
The REPs are POP, the DEMs are MOM
and the electorate is L'il Billy Bob and Missy Sue.
and Lil Billy Bob aint gonna vote for Mom unless she gets in more debt to Evil Biff (China)
and buys him a MOTORBIKE.
Missy Sue will not vote for Pop unless he buys her a pony.
Pop will have to crawl on his belly to Evil Biff and beg for more money.
Biff is annoyed at Pop because Pop looked shocked when he saw Biff beating up his wife and kids (Chinese population)
Pop saw Biff urinate in his neighbours letterbox and pour motor oil on his flower beds.
Everyone likes the neighbour (Dalai Lama) but, for fear of Biff, they shun him like a leper with AIDS.

How can MOM and POP hope to successfully raise a family when their future planning rarely exceeds the next four years and NEVER exceeds the next eight?
When they take loans from evil people that will still be increasing well after their deaths.
When they have no choice but to take more debts because they have made promises that are massively beyond their financial resources.

Intro music reaches a crescendo
"Land of the Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee........................
and THE HOME................................................
OF THE..............................................
BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVE!!!!
Chinese buyers welcome

I'm Canadian, bro.

I was suggesting that the layers on layers of government approach might not be the ideal system. I was also suggesting the idea that the Electoral college voting system isn't the best system for giving a true representation of the will of the people.

 

[ChesusRice]

I recently spent several years living in the Southern Philippines. What they have there is called the Barangay System and I guess it's as close to cooperative anarchy as you could get...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barangay

In the face of a corrupt, ineffective and incompetent central government, the Barangay System worked very well at keeping things together at a local level and still giving the little guy a voice in what was going on.

Good system.

The Barangay system is not as good as you think. It's just another way of Dominant familys to have more say on what goes on in their neighborhood
and pocket more money

 

[Beagler]

COMMUNISM
On paper Communism is perfect!
Mankind working for the betterment of ALL mankind.
EVERYONE getting enough to live lives free from poverty, hunger or treatable medical conditions.
Rather than one man being paid more money than could be spent in ten lifetimes, every year, whilst others earn so little they cannot afford to feed their children...
A controlled distribution of wealth, made possible by a centralised economy
Preventing the economic might of the few, from allowing the exploitation of the masses, purely in pursuit of profit for the few.
Whilst the majority are forced to be little more than cogs in the machinery of capitalism.

ALL MEN EQUAL.
NO MAN IS WORTH YACHTS AND PRIVATE JETS
WHILST OTHERS STARVE.
COMMUNISM - ALL THE ANSWERS NECESSARY FOR A MANMADE UTOPIAN SOCIETY!!!

In reality, of course, one set of leaders who use their financial power to exploit the less powerful
is replaced by a set of political leaders who use their political power to exploit the less powerful.
AND THE EXPLOITATION IS EVEN WORSE !

"DEMOCRACY IS THE WORST FORM OF GOVERNMENT, EXCEPT FOR ALL THE OTHER FORMS THAT HAVE BEEN TRIED FROM TIME TO TIME".
Winston Churchill
House of Commons Speech
November 11th 1947

Yep, on paper it looks great.
Not so in real life.

The problems come from the leaders.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. H
Heck, most any power corrupts when it comes to humans. Seems to be a hardwired survival trait.

 

[ChesusRice]

You don't think the fact that the USA has to become more and more financially indebted to China

We own China
Not the other way around

 

[Beefbisquit]

China has an artificially inflated economy, and a giant housing bubble about to collapse.

 

[ChesusRice]

China has an artificially inflated economy, and a giant housing bubble about to collapse.

What he said

 

[BigNBushy]

You said if everything went as planned
The Founding Fathers had no way to envision the shit stain we have now. They actually thought we would have competant rational leaders in congress who were focused on the needs of their constituents

They actually do, all to well. Congress has a very low national approval rate, yet incumbency is practically assured. Why? Because each congressman does what is good for his district, in the eyes of the district. What one congressman calls pork, another calls resources, jobs, funding, or grants for people in his home district.

The electoral college is the best thing going for our presidential elections, failure to fully understand it is the only motivation for its removal.

 

[NLXSK1]

You said if everything went as planned
The Founding Fathers had no way to envision the shit stain we have now. They actually thought we would have competant rational leaders in congress who were focused on the needs of their constituents

Actually if you read the federalist papers they knew this would happen and spoke about it. They said it was up to the people to fix it.

 

[Beefbisquit]

They actually do, all to well. Congress has a very low national approval rate, yet incumbency is practically assured. Why? Because each congressman does what is good for his district, in the eyes of the district. What one congressman calls pork, another calls resources, jobs, funding, or grants for people in his home district.

The electoral college is the best thing going for our presidential elections, failure to fully understand it is the only motivation for its removal.

The ability to lose the popular vote, but win an election is just fucked up.

 

[ChesusRice]

The ability to lose the popular vote, but win an election is just fucked up.

I hate to Godwin this thread. Really I regret this.

But if they had a Electoral college system in Germany. Hitler would of never rose to power

 

[Beefbisquit]

I hate to Godwin this thread. Really I regret this.

But if they had a Electoral college system in Germany. Hitler would of never rose to power

I'm not sure one exception to the rule constitutes keeping what seems to be an absurd method of tallying votes.

 

[BigNBushy]

The ability to lose the popular vote, but win an election is just fucked up.

We're not supposed to be directly electing the president anyway. Now, I might be in favor of some changes in the electoral college, the constitution does provide for some leeway there. For instance, suppose in my state candidate A wins the state, the delegates could still submit their votes for candidate b, and other than public outrage, nothing could be done. The state might require by law that the delegates vote the way of the election results, but federally, they are not required to do so.

In essence we have winner take all elections. We have 50 popular vote areas, each are worth a certain amount of points, and the candidates add up the points from each area they've won.

Having a straight up popular vote would be a terrible idea. You've heard of "The Great Compromise" I assume. The electoral college is a direct result of this. It is the only thing that keeps the smaller states relevant in elections.

Some argue against the electoral college because it says it gives voters in Wyoming a bigger say relative to a voter in California. They are right, and this is a good thing. California has much more political power in the us congress than Wyoming because it has much higher population.

Think of it this way, the electoral college is a sort of affirmative action for low population states. Without it they would become the whipping boy and dumping ground for the much larger states.

 

[kpmarine]

I'm not sure one exception to the rule constitutes keeping what seems to be an absurd method of tallying votes.

It's perfectly logical, though it is bit odd. It prevents CA from overriding the popular vote of 7 other smaller states. You effectively have to win the popular vote in a state to get that state's votes. It requires a president to be more aware of the needs and wishes of each state, which I think is a good thing.