LEd light advice

[Perge]

Hi I need some advice on some lights that I want to use for my first grow =)
I have a 5x9 grow tent and I'm growing 12 girls.

My original plan was to use 3 of the new area 51 190 all white lights.
But they have been sold old for a long time.


I was looking on Craigslist and saw that someone was selling 2 California light works SolarStorm 400W LED for a really good price.

I was wondering if two of these lights were strong enough to grow 12 plants in a 5x9 space.

Or am I better off just waiting to get the area 51 led grow lights.

Thanks for all the help happy growing

 

[Greengenes707]

2 CLW400's is not enough for that size space. Nor is 3 a51's either. 6-8 a51's.

It takes about 60%(actual draw) of the hps wattage to replace with led's. What would you put in there if you were going to run hps??

 

[Perge]

MH and Hps is not a option maybe grow less plants really don't want to thou.
I might as well buy a Apache 600 if it really takes going 6 or 8 area 51 190. For a 5x9 tent

 

[Greengenes707]

MH and Hps is not a option maybe grow less plants really don't want to thou.
I might as well buy a Apache 600 if it really takes going 6 or 8 area 51 190. For a 5x9 tent

I just ask what HID you would run so you can see how much worth of led's it would take comparably.

AT is my choice, and if you are spending enough for that size then an at600 or 4 a51's is the same price basically. It would take 2 at600's. 6-8 at200's or a51's. 5x9 is a big area to deck out.

 

[Mashpotato Johnson]

going by the 50W/SF rule your looking at a minimum of 2250W to light that area up... 2x1000W HPS & 400W LED for the middle.....

*edit*:
Also if your going to grow in that space, and provide that light I'd grow like 20 - 30 plants + other wise wtf

 

[Greengenes707]

I figure he would run 4x8 worth of canopy, then have a little working room. 2 1K's would be the choice for most 4x8'ers. I would run at least 1200 true watts of led's.

If your going with quality led's then you can run about 40w/sqft. Less if your not trying to live up to 1000w hps.

You could do less but bigger plants. Plenty of great growers run 4 plants per 4x4/5x5. Only the first run takes time to veg, after that it's just like any other rotating garden. harvest, replace, and flip.

It all really depends on what your expectations are.

 

[Perge]

Well thanks for the advice. Looks like I need to save up 1500 before I start didn't want to hear that but it is what it is thanks

 

[DCobeen]

if you can get the 2 cali storms for good price do it. just use 3' x 6' of the tent with them you dont have to run same kind of led in whole tent. then you can order 2 more when you need to and so on. as long as you get a 30 day guarantee on the cali storms. and the cali storms ahve uvb t8's on the side which rock to help produce a sticky film on your leaves and bud/thc.

 

[Perge]

The guy is selling 2 clw 400 Watt for 1100 not bad just don't know if it's enough for 12 plants.

 

[DCobeen]

The guy is selling 2 clw 400 Watt for 1100 not bad just don't know if it's enough for 12 plants.

too much wait you could go with 2 of these they are way better and they each do 4.6' x 4.6' that is 9 x 9 at 480.00 each = 960.00
http://www.topledgrowlight.com/mars-ii-led-grow-light-1200w.html#.UvgTTdcRvtQ
those are 5 watt diodes and would fill your tent with light.

 

[Perge]

Those lights in that link seem weird to me probably just stick with area 51

 

[DCobeen]

if you go with area51 get 4 of them. so put back 2 grand.

 

[Scotch089]

too much wait you could go with 2 of these they are way better and they each do 4.6' x 4.6' that is 9 x 9 at 480.00 each = 960.00
http://www.topledgrowlight.com/mars-ii-led-grow-light-1200w.html#.UvgTTdcRvtQ
those are 5 watt diodes and would fill your tent with light.

NO! these are a waste of money, im just gonna go down the list..

1. Power Draw: 520-600w??? They cant tell you how much "their panel" is going to draw within a 50w range!? Ha I want to know within +-5

2. 240x 5w Emitters....(think about where they are are getting 5w... Volts x Amps= Watts... whether it be a LED driven at 3.5V's & 1500mA or any other combination...) when they are pointing out 5w, they are trying to "beef up" their panels, when there is no difference from what they are doing than what other shitty rebranded/chinese/or secondhand companies are doing with their product... They just think pointing out it is capable of emitting 5w's- that it MUST be good... but, those little emitters will not run the total 50-100,000 hrs driven at full capacity... which I bet is where they are getting their almighty "5w"

3. Viewing Angle: 90 and 120*.... if you look at the panel, there is no secondary lenses over the led's, so that means each individual nm'd led has a distinct Angle specific to it's "model/style/bin/brand" and I would bet they did not design/space out/and place those emitters to get the best spectral mixing/distribution/and coverage they could have with those LEDs' lenses.... I even wonder if they took into account the placement of the actual nm's of each LED for decent "symmetry" in the design and footprint..... (anyone have a picture?)

4. Uhm, probably my personal favorite Giveaway... Coverage numbers vs. dimensions..... Yea... wait, no seriously... check this out... (We all know coverage suggestions are overshot, THIS shit was funny to me...)

They give you the Coverage Suggestion... as 4'6"x4'6"... and Panel Dimensions as 460mmx460mm, Boom...! cant believe I never noticed this on other companies too... dead giveaway that they are obviously not stationed/produced/selling/mfg'ing where they are trying to push their products... simply a joke! They don't think people will see past this?

Now, I wont make another # for the exaggerated sugg. coverage of 5x5' from a 18x18" panel... then they go onto state "standard" after the suggestion, instead of a hanging height


I would seriously consider looking into something else if you are going to dip $1000 bucks into 2 lights....


Wait it out, I know 51's stock can be a PITA, but the last time that happened they were ridding themselves of stock for reason... (not trying to spam or get ppl's hopes up too soon, id be kicking myself in the face...) but another panel could be aroudn the corner, or maybe demand was just THAT through the roof... either way. It is something to look out for, they are a company on the rise that has talked about a smaller, more modular style, and a larger 4x4/1000w comp. style...either direction is promising... hell, the fact they are continuing to improve their products is promising....

For that large of a space, you are seriously investing your time/money/and efforts... you cut corners you are going to feel it later on. CLW is reputable in the fact that they "US," but they are just now updating their 5+ year old panels, that weren't ground breaking to begin with....

I am biased as fuck, but for good reason

Apache Tech
Area 51

No doubt, and until somebody to blow them out of the water- or even match- I am sticking to it.

 

[DCobeen]

NO! these are a waste of money, im just gonna go down the list..

1. Power Draw: 520-600w??? They cant tell you how much "their panel" is going to draw within a 50w range!? Ha I want to know within +-5

2. 240x 5w Emitters....(think about where they are are getting 5w... Volts x Amps= Watts... whether it be a LED driven at 3.5V's & 1500mA or any other combination...) when they are pointing out 5w, they are trying to "beef up" their panels, when there is no difference from what they are doing than what other shitty rebranded/chinese/or secondhand companies are doing with their product... They just think pointing out it is capable of emitting 5w's- that it MUST be good... but, those little emitters will not run the total 50-100,000 hrs driven at full capacity... which I bet is where they are getting their almighty "5w"

3. Viewing Angle: 90 and 120*.... if you look at the panel, there is no secondary lenses over the led's, so that means each individual nm'd led has a distinct Angle specific to it's "model/style/bin/brand" and I would bet they did not design/space out/and place those emitters to get the best spectral mixing/distribution/and coverage they could have with those LEDs' lenses.... I even wonder if they took into account the placement of the actual nm's of each LED for decent "symmetry" in the design and footprint..... (anyone have a picture?)

4. Uhm, probably my personal favorite Giveaway... Coverage numbers vs. dimensions..... Yea... wait, no seriously... check this out... (We all know coverage suggestions are overshot, THIS shit was funny to me...)

They give you the Coverage Suggestion... as 4'6"x4'6"... and Panel Dimensions as 460mmx460mm, Boom...! cant believe I never noticed this on other companies too... dead giveaway that they are obviously not stationed/produced/selling/mfg'ing where they are trying to push their products... simply a joke! They don't think people will see past this?

Now, I wont make another # for the exaggerated sugg. coverage of 5x5' from a 18x18" panel... then they go onto state "standard" after the suggestion, instead of a hanging height


I would seriously consider looking into something else if you are going to dip $1000 bucks into 2 lights....


Wait it out, I know 51's stock can be a PITA, but the last time that happened they were ridding themselves of stock for reason... (not trying to spam or get ppl's hopes up too soon, id be kicking myself in the face...) but another panel could be aroudn the corner, or maybe demand was just THAT through the roof... either way. It is something to look out for, they are a company on the rise that has talked about a smaller, more modular style, and a larger 4x4/1000w comp. style...either direction is promising... hell, the fact they are continuing to improve their products is promising....

For that large of a space, you are seriously investing your time/money/and efforts... you cut corners you are going to feel it later on. CLW is reputable in the fact that they "US," but they are just now updating their 5+ year old panels, that weren't ground breaking to begin with....

I am biased as fuck, but for good reason

Apache Tech
Area 51

No doubt, and until somebody to blow them out of the water- or even match- I am sticking to it.

lol im not arguing with anyone over lights. they have 2 diff power switches 1 for veg 1 for flower that is why the diff power rating. anyway search and you will see a few grows with these lights. and when i get mine ill have it custom built with the lights i want in it for no extra cost. you use what you want ill use what i want. i mean shit this is a weed we can grow them with cfl's if we want. there is always a hater who just wants to be negative. its the grower that makes the difference. but im sure you was born with a green thumb and you knew it all. i will say this then off to bed in 10 min. have you seen grows with them? if not shut up already and go research. tired of blah blah blah they cant work cause if they do im a fool for spending so much money on american made lights. shut up already. your amercian made light was made in china just maybe the cree led was built in america with russian technology. yes who invented the led a Russian did. i bet your cell phone is American.

 

[Scotch089]

Wait, who started arguing again?

lol im not arguing with anyone over lights. they have 2 diff power switches 1 for veg 1 for flower that is why the diff power rating. anyway search and you will see a few grows with these lights. and when i get mine ill have it custom built with the lights i want in it for no extra cost. you use what you want ill use what i want. i mean shit this is a weed we can grow them with cfl's if we want. there is always a hater who just wants to be negative. its the grower that makes the difference. but im sure you was born with a green thumb and you knew it all. i will say this then off to bed in 10 min. have you seen grows with them? if not shut up already and go research. tired of blah blah blah they cant work cause if they do im a fool for spending so much money on american made lights. shut up already. your amercian made light was made in china just maybe the cree led was built in america with russian technology. yes who invented the led a Russian did. i bet your cell phone is American.

I took what they give you- and put it on the table. Im not arguing, but Im not going to stand by idly if that product looks shady and no one else knows better.

I don't appreciate your demeanor, I read your post in the Hater thread, and frankly in this thread- you sound like one of those haters. Did I tell you to shut up? fuck no, so pay respect like a decent human being.

It is your money, spend it how you want, it is just a weed, right?

What colors are on that veg switch, bub? I had a pro grow that'd stunt your little stump 3' away on just the veg switch. Good luck with your custom spectrum though, maybe you'll make use of hte switches.

know how they can make that for you? cus they don't give a fuck how efficient or how long that custom layout (simply the total v's in series or parallel.....) lasts if its over capacity of their drivers, sure, go ahead, ask if theyll put in "upgraded" drivers, im sure they went ahead and preordered a bulk 1000+ of them at their vendors' facility JUST for the occasion...

Now... do your research.

And my american made light was assembled in america. I am sure parts were sourced, but I also have a lifetime warranty on all of my (intact) lights.

Your money, your weed.

 

[blowincherrypie]

lol im not arguing with anyone over lights. they have 2 diff power switches 1 for veg 1 for flower that is why the diff power rating. anyway search and you will see a few grows with these lights. and when i get mine ill have it custom built with the lights i want in it for no extra cost. you use what you want ill use what i want. i mean shit this is a weed we can grow them with cfl's if we want. there is always a hater who just wants to be negative. its the grower that makes the difference. but im sure you was born with a green thumb and you knew it all. i will say this then off to bed in 10 min. have you seen grows with them? if not shut up already and go research. tired of blah blah blah they cant work cause if they do im a fool for spending so much money on american made lights. shut up already. your amercian made light was made in china just maybe the cree led was built in america with russian technology. yes who invented the led a Russian did. i bet your cell phone is American.

LOL you sure do have a lot of opinions without having any lights or ever grown anything. I have to ask, did you even read Scotchs post before you replied with that nonsense?

Perhaps it's time for you to just "shut up already."

 

[DCobeen]

Wait, who started arguing again?



I took what they give you- and put it on the table. Im not arguing, but Im not going to stand by idly if that product looks shady and no one else knows better.

I don't appreciate your demeanor, I read your post in the Hater thread, and frankly in this thread- you sound like one of those haters. Did I tell you to shut up? fuck no, so pay respect like a decent human being.

It is your money, spend it how you want, it is just a weed, right?

What colors are on that veg switch, bub? I had a pro grow that'd stunt your little stump 3' away on just the veg switch. Good luck with your custom spectrum though, maybe you'll make use of hte switches.

know how they can make that for you? cus they don't give a fuck how efficient or how long that custom layout (simply the total v's in series or parallel.....) lasts if its over capacity of their drivers, sure, go ahead, ask if theyll put in "upgraded" drivers, im sure they went ahead and preordered a bulk 1000+ of them at their vendors' facility JUST for the occasion...

Now... do your research.

And my american made light was assembled in america. I am sure parts were sourced, but I also have a lifetime warranty on all of my (intact) lights.

Your money, your weed.

sorry for telling you too shut up after ready the haters post i should have stepped back and cooled down. i hate how everyone is fighting over lights. if you contact lg-led and start conversation they will make a light with custom config. i dont want veg mode. i wont a nice 11 band that covers 380/410/430/450/580/610/630/660/730/3000k/10000k with a focus for flower. so hitting the photosynthesis a&b 430/660(60%) 380(5%) 3000/10000k(5%) the rest even. with 5 watt diodes pushing 65-70%. yes im sure that will lower the warranty on the led's but will make then push over 3 watt output for deeper penetration. Lg-ledsolutions want to make the best led panel for us growers and will work with us. even if i have to pay another $50 a panel for upgraded drivers np. ive done my research and no american company will do custom unless you buy 100 of them and then charge you 20% extra for each. and do your research even the area51 is made in china. only the cree led's are made in usa. they are shipped from usa its on there website. and i still say the american panels companies are ripping everyone off. hey im a US ARMY VET. served my country. but im not gonna pay $1000 for a light or more when i can pay half and get same results. here is a lesson for you. who makes all your computer motherboards? cell phones? you tv's? even Harley Davidson has foreign parts all over it. you will not get 100% american made anymore unless its clothes.furniture or such.

 

[Greengenes707]

sorry for telling you too shut up after ready the haters post i should have stepped back and cooled down. i hate how everyone is fighting over lights. if you contact lg-led and start conversation they will make a light with custom config. i dont want veg mode. i wont a nice 11 band that covers 380/410/430/450/580/610/630/660/730/3000k/10000k with a focus for flower. so hitting the photosynthesis a&b 430/660(60%) 380(5%) 3000/10000k(5%) the rest even. with 5 watt diodes pushing 65-70%. yes im sure that will lower the warranty on the led's but will make then push over 3 watt output for deeper penetration. Lg-ledsolutions want to make the best led panel for us growers and will work with us. even if i have to pay another $50 a panel for upgraded drivers np. ive done my research and no american company will do custom unless you buy 100 of them and then charge you 20% extra for each. and do your research even the area51 is made in china. only the cree led's are made in usa. they are shipped from usa its on there website. and i still say the american panels companies are ripping everyone off. hey im a US ARMY VET. served my country. but im not gonna pay $1000 for a light or more when i can pay half and get same results. here is a lesson for you. who makes all your computer motherboards? cell phones? you tv's? even Harley Davidson has foreign parts all over it. you will not get 100% american made anymore unless its clothes.furniture or such.

he is talking about apache...actually assembled in the USA, Santa Clara to be exact. If the best chips were American they would be using them...but Niichia is better and they are Japanese.

Youn have been really pushing LG and say they have equal performance, can you show is that??? Because if you think that 500 for an a51 is too much then you are in the wrong game. Price the pRts your self and then think of production cost.

driving 5w chips harder doesn't garnered penetration. What does is intensity reading at certain differences. More intense from higher =more penetration. And AT is the king if intensity and coverage.

Ask for a veterans discount bro

 

[DCobeen]

for 190 watt led at $575 wow that only does 2'x3' area. that is $96 a square ft. i want to get around $40 a square ft. hey if i had money to toss around np. and it gets worse ive seen $2300 for a light that does 4' x 4' =16 sq ft that is $146 a sq ft. are you kidding me. hey i want to buy American but wont spend that. the lg 1200 covers 4.6 x 4.6 =21.70 sq ft at $480 that is 22.70 per sq ft. humm so when i buy a 4x4x8 tent and put that light in total coverage for $22.70 sq ft. so if i put in 16 plants that have vegged for 30 days and let them run i could yield over an once a plant humm that could be a pound with the right genetics. even if i did 20 grams per plant wow. are you seeing what im saying? and after a few grows im sure i can get 40 ounces per plant. with top/LST. now till me im stupid. ive watched/read hundred of grows with led and i see yeilds form .5 gpw to 1.2 gpw. ill be happy even if i get .5pgw. and lg-led switched their leds to 3 makers they dumped the rest so they have great led's now. but hey that is my choice and ive going with that unless another panel jumps in that is America/Japanese/German/Korean that can get around the $22.70 per sq ft. i hope i explained it so you can see why im making this choice.

edit: it would be $30 sq ft in 4x4 tent.

 

[Scotch089]

I think you are missing the orignial point of me intervening... those panels' specifications are blatant lies,

-The fact alone that they measure their panel in Metric, but coverage in US says enough! but..

-you genuinely think an 18x18" panel will saturate a 5x5' area?

-have you ever ran an LED with a high % of it's spectrum being monochromatic blues? This is what I was speaking to with the ProGrow's, and Spectras... in my exp. (not to mention the companies I havent personally tried that cram a ton of Blue emitters to boost their "readings,")

(if youre not aware- blue photons carry more energy than white, green, red... whatever. SO, even if a company uses legitimate PAR readings, if they are using a shit ton of blue diodes- they found a loophole to stay "honest" ...ha. if thats what youd call it. Problem you run into- looks great on paper, but plants dont need 4-50% of their spectrum being blue heavy... sure theyll grow tight, but theyll grow slow too- and there is a point of diminishing returns with too much of anything.)

-Now, im glad you are taking it upon yourself to get a flowering specific panel, half the battle's the right spectrum... second's how it's delivered... anyways, Ive had custom panels made, and reputable companies did NOT swap out the Drivers for the custom series, respectively. Now, even if you do ask them, "now that im thinking about it, would you swap these if I...," OF COURSE they are going to say yes, especially if theyve already dug themselves a hole talking themselves up, but do you REALLY think they have a second "stock" of randomly rated drivers JUST for the chance that someone is going to order a variety/combo of LEDs that will line up in their layout of their series' (how they wire their panels/mcpcb boarrds) JUST right that THIS driver (out of the hundreds different ones they bought, just for this..) will NOT overrun your LEDs, degrading life? Maybe not by much, but maybe enough..

I dont just pull this shtuff out of air man, Ive had custom specs blow drivers from a company that stuck to their word and fixed it for me, but I knew, it was direct replacement for the driver, and NOT an "upgraded" or higher capacity driver for my setup, these are still businesses with a Market Sense,

I appreciate the apology/rep, speaks a lot, but a healthy debate is never a bad thing- bringing things to forefront will only help people realize what to really look for...

-the fact they offer you 380nm, and 10,000k Whites shows they do not get quality emitters, and obviously are not concerning themselves with the Efficiency (individual junction temps), Longevity, and TRUE specifications of what they are putting their panel together with... UV and IR are too expensive right now, from what I understand, for larger companies to implement in panels (including those 2300 dollar panels,) Makes me wonder, you ever think, why are these panels so expensive? Wait, THEY arent using all these blues... all this UV... ha... W and R man. Fuill spectrum light is the starting grounds for any Indoor Light, we are trying to recreate nature here...

-5w, or more POWER does not translate to more growth/better coverage/intensity, what it does come out to- is more dissipated heat per watt and not as much lumens/umol/par per watt. Higher the driven current, the less efficient... this is a bit past me, but maybe others have a better way to explain it.. either way, its not a hard concept.

-Now that im thinking about it- if they are driving these emitters as heavily as they can to get the highest intensity with those 5w'ers... they didnt think to take the additional heat (on the juction of the emitter, AND the environment..) and spread the emitters out to save on life? ha... they look to be about as close as what my Spectra's led's were spaced out... and my old 90w UFO, know why? Because all of these pcb boards are not made specifically for their panels (like A51 or Apache tech) and they have to make do with what is bulk mfg'd (for an array of companies to buy from! all these companies can find the same "hookup" for parts/cases/leds...Vipar and '12 A51 is prime example of casings, Advanced LED has this issue too, just go on ebay)

Wait, and do MY research? Man ive done dilligent work to get the best understanding of what I am trying to do- waste my time and get on here and repeat what I and several others have stated on here before to save the poor consumer's that dont have time to do that.. Hopefully some ppl take from this and learn what to look out for. Ive learnt my lesson, cant teach an old dog new tricks.

but with no hint of sarcasm: Thank you for your service.., I know it is hard to decipher how ppl say things some times, so I want to make it clear- Thank you. even more so if you were a Vet before the 2000's...