Why So Many LED Haters?

[genuity]

hell yea im for real...

i have not got a lb with a 600 yet myself,dont really try to,just like letting'em grow.

i want to try an replace these 2 400 mh

i do use 4ft t-5,but it pulls dam near as much ass the 400's
them plants just got put under them lights,they stay their for 30 days,they start under the t-5's for 30 days.

 

[Scotch089]

I don't know the dimensions but it looks like an IG420 would kick some ass in there... I don't own one myself, but there are some legitimate numbers from an Apogee Meter and pictures posted to give an idea of intensity and coverage. I would get in touch with some folks around here and see what they think of em, wouldn't mind getting one for veg too..

 

[genuity]

ha,thats the one i was just looking at,pro 420 par pontoon not a abd investment.(460 watts) hell yea to that.

the first 2 weeks of that 30 days the plants are filling the pots with roots anyway,with no real growth,and the last 2 weeks could use some compact growth,so this just may work.

 

[jigfresh]

that leds are not for the non scrog/sog growers,unless be used as as mix lighting...(hps/led) ect

jig,do you think the smaller buds was from the trimming in veg,or just led..

I think both. They would have been bigger without the overgrowth for sure. How much bigger remains to be seen. There's no way I'm getting some of the giant nugs I got with hid though. No way. But the nugs I was growing under HID were just ridiculous. I mean there's more bag appeal to healthy looking fat nugs over scrawny looking things... but not many people are looking for 10g nugs you know. So at some point it's just pointless as far as size goes. I think with the right conditions I could grow real nice looking, good size nugs. No more big ass colas, or hand grenade buds, but I don't think dense golf balls are out of the question.

I can't say about the par stuff, or whatever it's called... but I know I wouldn't use HID for veg again. I think LED has HID beat strait up for veg... just my opinion. And also I grow smaller plants. Not sure how well my lights would veg a 3 foot tall plant.

I'd agree with the statement I quoted. I don't think LED's have the penetration to be very effective without canopy management.

 

[hyroot]

Feel free to correct me but please take the time to research your answer first. If you arent drunk and dont drink please start asap, it will probably help.

if you veg a master kush and super lemon haze for same amount of time and veg and flower in optimum conditions. The super lemon haze will be 3 times larger of a plant than the master kush. The haze will yield to 4-5 times more than the master kush... Its a well known fact sativas veg faster and yield more than indicas but with a longer flower time. That's one example of genetics determining yield. With organics you will only get a big yield if the strain is a big yielder.


by your logic all strains yield the same which is simply not true. 12/12 from seed even proves that more so.

every post you made, aside from instigating arguments. Was either completely false or doesn't make sense. If you actually have grown mj you would know all that. Therefore you have no experience growing. That's what I mean by its obvious that you have zero experience.



@ SCOTCH. On the UL thing. EH said he is getting ul certs. He was sending the light in a few days to get tested. That was almost a month ago when he had said that

 

[Jbone77]

Your curbside arguments was a waste of my time and to ANYONE who is coming into this thread for some useful information, 12 pages caked in nitpicking... frankly, this is an "indoor lighting" section, and you are fortunate that there is a separate area for "other lighting"

Growing styles is a pref., hyroot could have been speaking to HPS in veg simply to avoid any possible stunting switching spectrums so quickly to go to 12/12 (the sun does not just, boom, change in one day...) whether it be 12 hours or 2 days, its like putting on a new pair of glasses.. these ARE living things. Now, even to compare MH and the RIGHT LED (spectrum), LEDs still have tighter nodes and if you had any clue- you would know that.

you've said quite a bit of shit on here.. but I fucked up and deleted a huge rant I made, just for you. I don't have the time to double for you.

So, my stoner mind gets to bring up 3 of the topics on the forefront,

If you think you can directly replace such an important component in the environment, without adjusting your any of your own techniques.... c'mon....

you say 1lb/600... 450g/600, 225/300..... take it to the single, quality LED panels' draw... 150w pulling 4 ounces? That's been done. thats <0.75"gpw," I am one to think it is easier to achieve that goal, and then some, with LED, and THATS been proven time and time again simply by the same space vs lower over consumption.

Now expand that image back to an equivilent wattage... there is no reason why LED's cannot compete, WITH the same veg time... you're the one that brought up extending veg time, and that is not true, (not too mention you are getting the same amount of vegetation in less cubic space [tighter growth])

Coheen has the right idea of staying Green, no mercury, no disposing of bulbs, no thermal management, lesss electricity, plain and simple... HIDs use brute force.

Thanks for the help, that is exactly my point, you are exactly correct, if you break down a 1 pound hid grow into a smaller 4 oz grow then led is comporable to hid, as you clearly stated. But so is cfl at that point and cfls are cheap. If switching from a halide to a sodium bulb stunts plants im doing something terribly wrong! This is the hid section, not the led section. The thread is called "why all the led haters" not "the great and powerful led" so u wasted your own time if you were suprised to read negative threads because thats what he asked for. I have not said a single bad thing about leds, in fact I said they work great, especially with small plants, exactly as you stated. What I did say was if you have a set number of plants you can grow at a time and want maximum annual yield, led can not compete with hid, if it could all you guys would provide a link showing a 1 pound led harvest with a 4 week veg and shut me up and laugh hysterically at me.

 

[Jbone77]

if you veg a master kush and super lemon haze for same amount of time and veg and flower in optimum conditions. The super lemon haze will be 3 times larger of a plant than the master kush. The haze will yield to 4-5 times more than the master kush... Its a well known fact sativas veg faster and yield more than indicas but with a longer flower time. That's one example of genetics determining yield. With organics you will only get a big yield if the strain is a big yielder.


by your logic all strains yield the same which is simply not true. 12/12 from seed even proves that more so.

every post you made, aside from instigating arguments. Was either completely false or doesn't make sense. If you actually have grown mj you would know all that. Therefore you have no experience growing. That's what I mean by its obvious that you have zero experience.



@ SCOTCH. On the UL thing. EH said he is getting ul certs. He was sending the light in a few days to get tested. That was almost a month ago when he had said that

Sorry again but you can veg master kush and super lemon haze together for the same amount of time just fine, especially when growing with led, that is the perfect scenario for led because they would both be topped and trained to fill the area. I never said all strains yield the same, I said genetics dont determine yield as you stated, genetics determine possible yield, big difference.

 

[PetFlora]

Consider this (I did not for a long time), under whatever light source you choose, there exists a 'sweet spot'. It's more of a cubic area. Max yield depends on how well the grower exploits the sweet spot.

HPS/MH heat forces the grower to keep more distance (> 15") from the canopy. LEDs with tight lenses work similarly. Today, we are beginning to see led cobs inside mini parabolic reflectors, which IMHO is the future

Wide angled lens Leds, EDFLs, and hot5s allow the grower to minimize the distance between the light and the canopy= more canopy in the sweet spot. Here's where I was remiss in the past: SCROG.

I corrected the issue this grow, but started late.
If the top buds were allowed to grow 'normally' the yield would be considerably smaller



HOT5



LED Now never mind the toasted leafs. I fd up and mixed a 200 ppm dose of Sea Crop minerals. Fortunately, the buds have recovered with lots of healthy green leafs

so leds are about "being green" and thats it?

im really not getting it...

what i am getting is,it's gonna take maybe 2 led units per 1000,and that leds are not for the non scrog/sog growers,unless be used as as mix lighting...(hps/led) ect

and with these led lights being so new,how do we now they can last as long as the companys say?

i want to try one(led) for veg,thats all the info im looking for.

even with all the extra talk,its still good info in this thread.

jig,do you think the smaller buds was from the trimming in veg,or just led..

 

[Jbone77]

I think both. They would have been bigger without the overgrowth for sure. How much bigger remains to be seen. There's no way I'm getting some of the giant nugs I got with hid though. No way. But the nugs I was growing under HID were just ridiculous. I mean there's more bag appeal to healthy looking fat nugs over scrawny looking things... but not many people are looking for 10g nugs you know. So at some point it's just pointless as far as size goes. I think with the right conditions I could grow real nice looking, good size nugs. No more big ass colas, or hand grenade buds, but I don't think dense golf balls are out of the question.

I can't say about the par stuff, or whatever it's called... but I know I wouldn't use HID for veg again. I think LED has HID beat strait up for veg... just my opinion. And also I grow smaller plants. Not sure how well my lights would veg a 3 foot tall plant.

I'd agree with the statement I quoted. I don't think LED's have the penetration to be very effective without canopy management.

I agree with most everything this happy led user said. Pretty much what iv been saying the entire time

 

[Jbone77]

Ok then, here we go. Genetics dont determine yield, the best genetics in the world are meaningless with a poor veg, a poor veg equals a poor harvest so that is false. Genetics dont determine veg times, if they did mother plants wouldnt exist and neither would 12/12 from seed so that is false. I didnt address lighting because that would be included in the environmental part I talked about. An indica dom and a sativa dom can veg for the exact same time so thats false. All the led grows in the led section out yield hid? Um...that is blatantly false. I have talked no shit about led, I actually said they work great several times so that is false. I have no mouse to click so that is false. When you say "its obvious you have never grown anything by all your posts let alone led", I have no idea what that means. Shit genetics in a correct environment will out yield great genetics in a shit environment.

Hey hyroot, what did I say that was untrue again?

 

[red eyes420]

Iv just swapped a full led tent for a metal halide tent.. wow what a diffrence in rapid growth i get with the m/h

 

[Jbone77]

Iv just swapped a full led tent for a metal halide tent.. wow what a diffrence in rapid growth i get with the m/h

Watch your stems, you can not grow stems as fat as a MH with any other light and big stems support big buds. Veg is the base of your entire grow, good decision.

 

[darebaq]

Did you use supercropping? or why they are broken?

 

[PetFlora]

All leds are NOT created equal

If you had a bad experience with a woman, would you then say all women suck? OK, bad example, but you get my point

High quality leds have been available for a couple years, but you have to do your homework

I stayed on thee sidelines since my $360 hosing, but became a student, and am now well educated.

An uneducated consumer is a scumbag manufacturers' best customer.

Iv just swapped a full led tent for a metal halide tent.. wow what a diffrence in rapid growth i get with the m/h

 

[DCobeen]

Watch your stems, you can not grow stems as fat as a MH with any other light and big stems support big buds. Veg is the base of your entire grow, good decision.

humm in veg i have 2 plants under 3000k led 3 watt diodes and their stems are 3x over the ones that are under cfl or quad led. its funny you said that. so they need to work on a veg spectrum to fatten stems. im sure the stems i have at 30 days from seed (23 days veg put in veg the day after they popped up)are not as big as yours. here it is. now this plant has a stem 2x - 3x bigger than ones under other lights. if we can all do a little research and submit it to the led panel makers they can make better panels for us. if anyone can do the same measure and what light they use we can compare and figure out the best spectrum.

 

[GroErr]

All leds are NOT created equal

If you had a bad experience with a woman, would you then say all women suck? OK, bad example, but you get my point

Actually, all women do suck, you just have to be more persuasive with some - lol (no disrespect to any women here, just trying to lighten up the conversation)

 

[jigfresh]

My stems turned out pretty fat. Maybe I was doing something wrong. ???

I will say I've had fatter stems before.... but those plants had to be vegged longer, so I'm not sure it was the light that had them be fatter as much as the longer veg time.

 

[DCobeen]

My stems turned out pretty fat. Maybe I was doing something wrong. ???

I will say I've had fatter stems before.... but those plants had to be vegged longer, so I'm not sure it was the light that had them be fatter as much as the longer veg time.

yeah lmao you had decent stem size I would love to see your led do a normal scrog jigs.also LST/Top/Fim/supercropping makes a diff also. mine has had nothing yet, gonna Fim for more tops this week maybe later today / tomorrow.

 

[budbro18]

All leds are NOT created equal

If you had a bad experience with a woman, would you then say all women suck? OK, bad example, but you get my point

High quality leds have been available for a couple years, but you have to do your homework

I stayed on thee sidelines since my $360 hosing, but became a student, and am now well educated.

An uneducated consumer is a scumbag manufacturers' best customer.

Exactly! If you allow yourself to be taken advantage of you will be. Like with AN and other over priced companies that want to take advantage of us growers because its "illegal" they may have 1 or 2 things that work but you can find them from other brands for 1/4 the price.


Im about to flower with mine and im assuming im going to get a bangin harvest! At least equal to my 600w harvest because im using 600w of LEDs

thats where most people fuck up.

 

[PetFlora]

Now that the led clones have recovered from over mineraling, I decided to bring them closer to the leds. Now within what I consider normal range, ~ 15"

Should something extra good happen (buds fattening up more than they have) I will post pic by Friday