Can you live on minimum wage? (Calculator)

[heckler73]

Same thing, just a smaller scale?

"I'll take 2 of your $16 happy meals, please."

Although a higher min wage WILL (I hope that is clear enough) cause some upward shift in consumer prices as certain businesses pass costs along, the magnitude of effect will not be 1:1.
Only in those rare cases where the consumer product is labour, will there be a complete passing of costs (and probably a premium).

So you might be paying a good chunk more for those greazee hand-jobs on the moon behind the pinball machine...

 

[Padawanbater2]

Same thing, just a smaller scale?

"I'll take 2 of your $16 happy meals, please."

That's where we enact legislation to ensure the multinational corporations like McDonalds with billion dollar profits don't shift the burden of paying for their employees onto the consumer (like they have been doing by paying such low wages their employees require government assistance already). All the leverage is on this side of the table, those businesses that don't like it won't leave because the cost of not doing business in the US will be much greater than doing it with said regulation in place. There's the jobs, there's the working wage, there's the solution.

 

[NLXSK1]

That's where we enact legislation to ensure the multinational corporations like McDonalds with billion dollar profits don't shift the burden of paying for their employees onto the consumer (like they have been doing by paying such low wages their employees require government assistance already). All the leverage is on this side of the table, those businesses that don't like it won't leave because the cost of not doing business in the US will be much greater than doing it with said regulation in place. There's the jobs, there's the working wage, there's the solution.

That is what the unions forced to happen in the manufacturing sector and look how great that worked out...

It is not the job of the government to force some entity to give you money you didnt earn. By definition, if you cannot make a certain wage then you didnt earn the money.

If you spent 1/10th the energy trying to get a job as you spend bitching about how unfair life is then you would be too busy and too wealthy to post here...

 

[twostrokenut]

Originally Posted by Doer
Oh, no. Nothing in there about proof of citizenship.

Article Two, Section 1 of the United States Constitution sets forth the eligibility requirements for serving as President of the United States:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
​

this is my interpretation of the requirements based upon the above:

red - natural born citizen
blue - or a citizen of the united states
orange - you must be at least 35
green - must have lived here at least 14 years

isn't this really saying to be president you can either be:

1. born here -OR- a citizen
2. age 35
3. lived here for 14 years if not born here

it does not say anything about proof.

Yes but your blue part is contingent on the time....time was at the adoption and since passed.

 

[Pinworm]

Minimum Wage is a Gateway Drug........

 

[twostrokenut]

"I should be able to make as much as I can"

or

"the more I have the less they have"

Mutually exclusive camps. Should I start a poll?

Bit of a logical fallacy I see there.
First can be said to create wealth thus negating the second.

Actually appeasing the second.

"Make as much as I can" is not the same as "grab the biggest slice"

Not the same camp unless you assume wealth is finite and scarce....like a natural resource.

 

[Padawanbater2]

It is not the job of the government to force some entity to give you money you didnt earn. By definition, if you cannot make a certain wage then you didnt earn the money.

If you spent 1/10th the energy trying to get a job as you spend bitching about how unfair life is then you would be too busy and too wealthy to post here...

Gains in production have been unevenly distributed for more than 3 decades, sorry if you don't believe that, or that you believe every penny earned has been in the financial sector, like Keynes. The level of income inequality we see today is the worst its been since the great depression, you seem to think it's a random coincidence.

It's our job to ensure crony capitalists don't fuck with the rules to skew them in their favor. You people call yourselves conservatives, a real conservative would never protect some bullshit like that. Real conservatives believe in free markets, when the rules are changed in favor of the wealthy, that is not free, you're a fucking phony.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Gains in production have been unevenly distributed for more than 3 decades, sorry if you don't believe that, or that you believe every penny earned has been in the financial sector, like Keynes. The level of income inequality we see today is the worst its been since the great depression, you seem to think it's a random coincidence.

It's our job to ensure crony capitalists don't fuck with the rules to skew them in their favor. You people call yourselves conservatives, a real conservative would never protect some bullshit like that. Real conservatives believe in free markets, when the rules are changed in favor of the wealthy, that is not free, you're a fucking phony.

classic reductio ad retardum.

you asserted a fallacy, made the same idiotic assumptions as economist make regularly, and then insisted that reality is not real.

america has become a "service economy" and the largest single segment of those "services" are financial. claiming that wealth increases from financial deals and moneyfingering are "increases in productivity" and thus should be counted en bloc with the productivity advances in the fields of with ditch digging, farm work, illegal alien day labor and porno theatre floor mopping is just plain stupid.

most of the real productive work in this country has NOT seen any great strides in productivity since the advent of power tools, the moving assembly line, diesel tractors and the motorized combine.

almost all the gains in GDP over the last several decades has been from financial maneuvering, NOT productive industry.

Edit: and inflation.

must not forget inflation.

more than 400% inflation since the late 70's, and a money supply that is simply far too large and growing by the day, as a result the GDP NUMBERS get bigger, but the real productivity of the economy (even with "financial services" included) is far lower than the fail ass charts show.

 

[UncleBuck]

classic reductio ad retardum.

you asserted a fallacy, made the same idiotic assumptions as economist make regularly, and then insisted that reality is not real.

america has become a "service economy" and the largest single segment of those "services" are financial. claiming that wealth increases from financial deals and moneyfingering are "increases in productivity" and thus should be counted en bloc with the productivity advances in the fields of with ditch digging, farm work, illegal alien day labor and porno theatre floor mopping is just plain stupid.

most of the real productive work in this country has NOT seen any great strides in productivity since the advent of power tools, the moving assembly line, diesel tractors and the motorized combine.

almost all the gains in GDP over the last several decades has been from financial maneuvering, NOT productive industry.

 

[Pinworm]

america has become a "service economy" and the largest single segment of those "services" are financial.

.............

 

[Pinworm]

I fucking lawl'd purty hard...

 

[Padawanbater2]

almost all the gains in GDP over the last several decades has been from financial maneuvering, NOT productive industry.

Like I said before, even if that was the case, it's irrelevant. Full time work should earn a living wage and taxpayers money shouldn't be going to cover the costs their employer won't

 

[Dr Kynes]

View attachment 2996737

.............

what a fun chart.

"poverty thresholds were inflated form the 2012 census based on cbo projected inflation projections, which were based on cbo projections and proposals to do shit that wont make a lick of difference, assuming everybody works 40 hours a week 52 weeks a year and assuming the author is not an idiot"

the REAL numbers:
1968 (the first year there actually was an official "Poverty Line" )
poverty line for a family of 4: $4235.00/year. (not adjusted for inflation, which we totally dont have anyway...) source: (a)
federal minimum hourly wage: $1.62 source: (b)

so, 40 hours a week x 52 weeks/year x $1.62 hourly minimum wage = $3369.60

ZOMG THAT'S BELOW THE POVERTY LINE!1!!!!!11!!!!!one !!!!1!!!!uno!!!!!!!!11!

No Shit Sherlock. the minimum wage was never intended to be a "living wage" or a tradesman's wage. it was instituted to prevent "exploitation" of desperate people, but in a town with ZERO jobs, even a shitty job paying less than $5/hour is a welcome thing, why do you think mexicans come to america to pick lettuce for $0.10 a bushel?

the poverty line for a family of four in 2013 is $23550.00 (5x higher. nope, no inflation there folks... ) source: (c)

the federal minimum wage is currently $5.75/hour.

so, 40 hours a week x 52 weeks/year x $5.75 min hourly wage = $11960.00 (3.59 x higher than 1968. yep. the feds are doing a great job keeping up with the inflation that we dont have...)

if you assume that 1968 (those glorious halcyon days liberals love to look back on with wistful tears) is the benchmark, then the federal minimum wage should be raised to $8.10/hour (exactly 5x the 1968 minimum wage, to account for the inflation we dont have)

while this means certain people in alabama and wyoming will be getting a pay increase, it wont do shit in most states which already have rates close to, or above $8.10/hour.

arguing for a DOUBLING of the minimum wage to $12 or $14/hour will simply fuck over an already shaky small business economy, and will shutter businesses with tight margins and high labour costs (like food service).

even raising the minimum wage to $8.10 will result in more illegal alien hiring to dodge the wage increase (and the comensurate increases in payroll taxes, SS, Medicare, disability,unemployment, etc) which will drive MORE unemployment.

until we have nearly zero unemployment, raising the minimum wage will only spur more inflation, and more unemployment.























(a)https://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/data/threshld/thresh68.html

(b)http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/stateMinWageHis.htm

(c)http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/13poverty.cfm

 

[Pinworm]

what a fun chart.

"poverty thresholds were inflated form the 2012 census based on cbo projected inflation projections, which were based on cbo projections and proposals to do shit that wont make a lick of difference, assuming everybody works 40 hours a week 52 weeks a year and assuming the author is not an idiot"

the REAL numbers:
1968 (the first year there actually was an official "Poverty Line" )
poverty line for a family of 4: $4235.00/year. (not adjusted for inflation, which we totally dont have anyway...) source: (a)
federal minimum hourly wage: $1.62 source: (b)

so, 40 hours a week x 52 weeks/year x $1.62 hourly minimum wage = $3369.60

ZOMG THAT'S BELOW THE POVERTY LINE!1!!!!!11!!!!!one !!!!1!!!!uno!!!!!!!!11!

No Shit Sherlock. the minimum wage was never intended to be a "living wage" or a tradesman's wage. it was instituted to prevent "exploitation" of desperate people, but in a town with ZERO jobs, even a shitty job paying less than $5/hour is a welcome thing, why do you think mexicans come to america to pick lettuce for $0.10 a bushel?

the poverty line for a family of four in 2013 is $23550.00 (5x higher. nope, no inflation there folks... ) source: (c)

the federal minimum wage is currently $5.75/hour.

so, 40 hours a week x 52 weeks/year x $5.75 min hourly wage = $11960.00 (3.59 x higher than 1968. yep. the feds are doing a great job keeping up with the inflation that we dont have...)

if you assume that 1968 (those glorious halcyon days liberals love to look back on with wistful tears) is the benchmark, then the federal minimum wage should be raised to $8.10/hour (exactly 5x the 1968 minimum wage, to account for the inflation we dont have)

while this means certain people in alabama and wyoming will be getting a pay increase, it wont do shit in most states which already have rates close to, or above $8.10/hour.

arguing for a DOUBLING of the minimum wage to $12 or $14/hour will simply fuck over an already shaky small business economy, and will shutter businesses with tight margins and high labour costs (like food service).

even raising the minimum wage to $8.10 will result in more illegal alien hiring to dodge the wage increase (and the comensurate increases in payroll taxes, SS, Medicare, disability,unemployment, etc) which will drive MORE unemployment.

until we have nearly zero unemployment, raising the minimum wage will only spur more inflation, and more unemployment.























(a)https://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/data/threshld/thresh68.html

(b)http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/stateMinWageHis.htm

(c)http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/13poverty.cfm

Why come you gotta hate so hard fur, bruh? The middle class has been faceraped long enough. You can't build a house without a decent foundation. Pretty sure you see where I'm going with this.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Like I said before, even if that was the case, it's irrelevant. Full time work should earn a living wage and taxpayers money shouldn't be going to cover the costs their employer won't

"full time work" mopping floors or washing dishes has NEVER earned a living wage.

if it did then dishwashers and floor moppers would never need to get better jobs.

your transparent self serving agenda is just an attempt to shake the money tree (somebody else's money tree at that) so you can get a tradesman's wage for asking "You want fries with that?".

if you can make a carpenter's wage slinging fries, how much more do you think carpenters deserve? so now building a house is more expensive.

plumbers need more too, suddenly a clogged toilet becomes a financial decision: crap in a bucket or take a second mortgage?

aircraft mechanics will need more too, so your plane ticket just went up.

you dont consider the implications of your agenda, a common failing with the occupy-tards.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Why come you gotta hate so hard fur, bruh? The middle class has been faceraped long enough. You can't build a house without a decent foundation. Pretty sure you see where I'm going with this.

none of this has ANYTHING to do with the "middle class"

they dont get the minimum wage, they are the ones who PAY the minimum wage.

if anybody is fucking the "middle class" it's the gimmee gimmee crowd demanding burger flippers get paid like heavy equipment operators or architects.

or do you think "evil corporations in their corporation buildings" pay the minimum wage with their "corporation money"?

 

[twostrokenut]

So what's full time work then? The new norm seems to be hovering around 30 hrs.
Who decides?
What is the free market?
Is it not the supplies and demands of the people not the gubberment?
Why shouldn't the people set wages and hours for themselves?

What is considered "living"? Is it having enough fed notes to buy ecstacy?
Enough fed notes or other "credits" to attend an abstract "art" exhibit?

What allows croney capitalism? Who "acts" to put "money" in circulation?
Why are they not the problem.....and you identify a symptom of a problem, as the problem?

Min wage don't cut it any more.
Not the fundamental problem.

We have been commie for quite a while now.
Fundamental problem.

Yet there seems to be more insistence that marxism is the cure for solicialism or any other isms or schizms that involve state run resources.

 

[Pinworm]

none of this has ANYTHING to do with the "middle class"

they dont get the minimum wage, they are the ones who PAY the minimum wage.

if anybody is fucking the "middle class" it's the gimmee gimmee crowd demanding burger flippers get paid like heavy equipment operators or architects.

or do you think "evil corporations in their corporation buildings" pay the minimum wage with their "corporation money"?

Come on, meow. You know what I'm jabbering about, here. Paying the "lower classes" what they deserve will help everyone. More dough for the dummies means more spending, means more money for you biddness owners.

 

[Pinworm]

Gotta say, though, your math is tight.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Come on, meow. You know what I'm jabbering about, here. Paying the "lower classes" what they deserve will help everyone. More dough for the dummies means more spending, means more money for you biddness owners.

raising the minimum wage to $8.10/hour would do very little since most states already have a minimum wage law that is close to that number or higher.

if you happen to live in georgia or alabama and make minimum wage, raisng the minimum wage by $2.35/hour might seem like a windfall, and suddenly you can afford to lease that prius you have been wanting, but after a very short time, all the things you buy will cost more.

"corporations" and "business owners" dont pay the wages, those are an expense. those expenses are paid by their customers.

while you may feel prosperous as fuck with that extra $94 in your weekly pay packet, that $94 will vanish like a fart in the wind when you have to pay more for everything, and due to the vagaries of Cost Accounting, every new expense must have a profit attached, so youll soon be spending $100 more per week for your necessities, making your sweet new pay increase into an effective pay decrease.

thats how the world works. when costs go up, prices go up, when costs go down, prices stay the same, but profits increase.

driving MORE inflation (even "short term" inflation) is retarded.

if you want more money, get a better job.

trying to vote yourself the right to pick somebody else's pocket wont do shit for you, since the guy youre robbing will simply charge more for his goods to refill his pockets.