OC Kush, ScroG, 2 X 125W CFL, Ebb and Flow Cabinet Grow

joebowler

Well-Known Member
Hi Jack,

How's the plant looking now? Haven't seen any pics in a couple weeks. Are things moving along ok?
Yea, I was getting frustrated with the lack of growth and was neglecting my thread. I can tell anyone reading this that it is a long frustrating experience to start with a clone that has been under 12/12 for long enough for it to really go into flower. I won't do that again. It took almost 4 full weeks to start to see some growth but starting a couple of days ago it really started to take off and when I check my E/C I can see that the plant is starting to feed. Anyways, here are some pics over the last few weeks.

This is the 20,21,22,23,24,24.
2014-01-20 13.17.24.jpg2014-01-21 12.32.34.jpg2014-01-22 13.16.07.jpg2014-01-23 09.57.04.jpg2014-01-24 07.23.33.jpg2014-01-24 07.24.07.jpg

As you can see, not much change.
These are from the 25,26,27,28,29,31.
2014-01-25 11.45.53.jpg2014-01-26 15.05.04.jpg2014-01-27 10.57.19.jpg2014-01-28 07.44.25.jpg2014-01-29 17.21.18.jpg2014-01-31 09.48.43.jpg

And finally starting to see some growth.
From Feb. 4,4,5,5,
2014-02-04 08.24.41.jpg2014-02-04 08.26.00.jpg2014-02-05 16.15.25.jpg2014-02-05 16.15.38.jpg

And today you see real growth!
2014-02-07 16.59.00.jpg2014-02-07 16.59.06.jpg2014-02-07 16.59.37.jpg

So, I can finally see some light at the beginning of the tunnel. I have a long way to go though. My other project starts tomorrow. An old cabinet with a 150 W HPS and a DWC setup, my friend called me yesterday to tell me he has roots coming out of the clone, so, fun times for sure. Here is a quick pick to check it out.

2014-01-25 09.55.05.jpg


Party on,
Jack
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
It's a shame she took so long to reveg, but at least it looks like things are moving in the right direction.

I'm looking forward to following your small HPS grow too. It should be interesting to compare the results out of the two boxes.
 

joebowler

Well-Known Member
Okay, it's been a little over a week now and I am very pleased. Finally getting some good growth, over 4 inches in the last 10 days. Check it out.
These are the 8th.
2014-02-08 18.02.37.jpg2014-02-08 18.02.44.jpg2014-02-08 18.03.07.jpg

The 9th.
2014-02-09 14.57.32.jpg2014-02-09 14.57.44.jpg2014-02-09 14.58.11.jpg
The 11th.
2014-02-11 14.24.08.jpg2014-02-11 14.24.13.jpg2014-02-11 14.25.24.jpg
The 12th.
2014-02-12 12.15.22.jpg2014-02-12 12.15.48.jpg
The 13th.
2014-02-13 14.38.04.jpg2014-02-13 14.38.14.jpg2014-02-13 14.38.50.jpg
The 15th.
2014-02-15 11.02.46.jpg2014-02-15 11.04.08.jpg
And today.
2014-02-17 09.47.09.jpg2014-02-17 09.47.38.jpg

You can see a little leaf burn on the back tallest part of the plant. I didn't anticipate how fast it would grow and it got too close to the light last night.:sad: Got to get busy building my screen. I'm going about 12 inches above the media and at this rate it will be there in a week.

Thanks for watching,
Jack
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
She's looking way better now, man. Nice.

I usually flip to 12/12 when the plant is an inch or two below the height of the screen. The plant more than doubles in size during the first 4 weeks of 12/12, so try to visualize how much space you'll need for the plant to comfortably fit in the box in 5 weeks time (2-3 times its current size).
 

joebowler

Well-Known Member
She's looking way better now, man. Nice.

I usually flip to 12/12 when the plant is an inch or two below the height of the screen. The plant more than doubles in size during the first 4 weeks of 12/12, so try to visualize how much space you'll need for the plant to comfortably fit in the box in 5 weeks time (2-3 times its current size).
Thanks Jim, I appreciate the encouragement. From the height I am putting my screen I have 16 inches till my lights are maxed out on adj. I think I will be getting my screen today and flipping in the next 2-3 days. What do you use for screen? I can get some metal screen with 2X3 inch openings. I also have thought about a pvc frame with screws in it and string ran between the screws. One other thing, I know you have said anything more than 300 watts you get diminishing returns. Do you mean in relation to heat, cost, or what? I have exactly enough room to put 3 bulbs on my mounting board. What do you think? 375 isn't that much over 300 and I have no problem with heat. LMK what you think.

Jack
 

joebowler

Well-Known Member
Finally got my other Cabinet grow thread started. Find it here. I am really enjoying these small grows. I think I may try a computer cabinet grow next. Just have a few details to work out, but it shouldn't take long. Off to Lowe's, time to build a screen.
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
Thanks Jim, I appreciate the encouragement. From the height I am putting my screen I have 16 inches till my lights are maxed out on adj. I think I will be getting my screen today and flipping in the next 2-3 days. What do you use for screen? I can get some metal screen with 2X3 inch openings. I also have thought about a pvc frame with screws in it and string ran between the screws. One other thing, I know you have said anything more than 300 watts you get diminishing returns. Do you mean in relation to heat, cost, or what? I have exactly enough room to put 3 bulbs on my mounting board. What do you think? 375 isn't that much over 300 and I have no problem with heat. LMK what you think.

Jack
For my screen, I use plastic mesh/fencing, bought at a garden center. Each opening is 2 x 2.5 inches. I cut out a section of mesh about 2 inches shorter than the length and width of my box, then put a ring screw in each of the four corners of my box at the height I wanted the screen (about 15 inches high). I then used zip ties to tie the corners of the screen to each ring screw, pulling the screen tight into each of the four corners so there's minimal vertical 'give' in the middle of the screen.

Here's a pic of one of the front right corner of my box:

IMAG0447.jpg

As for adding more light, assuming you can manage the heat output, by all means go ahead and add as much as you can afford and/or have space for. The 'saturation point' I sometimes refer to simply means I believe you reach a stage where you're spending a similar amount of money on bulbs and cooling (and electricity) where CFLs stop being the best option. There is certainly nothing wrong with using 500W of CFLs, but I think that once you pay for cables, sockets, fans, reflectors, and the bulbs themselves (of each spectrum), you'd be just as well buying a single 400W MH/HPS setup. Plus, with CFLs, there's the added maintenance issue of constantly having to train your plant(s) to keep each top to within 2 inches of the closest light source. Plants under HPS can grow more 'freely' without having to be micromanaged on a daily basis. I feel that once you get past a certain total wattage of CFL (usually around 400), it isn't that much cheaper (all told) than an HPS of similar watts, and less grow management involved. Arguably, flowers are more dense with the increased lumen intensity from HPS as well.

All that said, the beauty with CFLs is that you can add supplemental bulbs as your budget allows, which means that your initial outlay can be significantly lower than with other types of lighting. Every time payday rolls around (or as the plant gets bigger), you can go out and buy more bulbs. With MH/HPS, you're heavily invested from the start, and cooling is more expensive as HPS throws out more heat. Most of all, though, you usually need more height to your grow space with HPS than with CFLs, so that bounces micro-growers and most cabinet growers from the HPS party.

Sorry for the long-winder answer. If you can afford them, have space and can cool them, certainly add more bulbs. Your plant will respond well.

Jim
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
EDIT: The last line should read "long-winded answer" but for some reason I can't seem to edit my last post.
 

joebowler

Well-Known Member
Long winded are the best. I am a detailed type of guy and long post have lots of info. Do you think photo period is more important than bulb color? Meaning, till I get my third 2700K bulb would it be harmful to run the 6700 K in the middle or would it be just fine?

Thanks
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
It's absolutely fine to mix light spectrums throughout the grow, as long as you have more 6400k during veg, and more 2700k during bloom.
 

joebowler

Well-Known Member
It's absolutely fine to mix light spectrums throughout the grow, as long as you have more 6400k during veg, and more 2700k during bloom.
That's what I thought. So time for another update.
Here is my screen. The only problem is it is only available in a 50 foot role, so I am set for a few years. LOL. I also built the other style that I have seen, as I already had most of the parts. It sits right over the top of the plant and nice and tight against the sides. I will try both and let you all know what I think.
2014-02-20 08.27.35.jpg2014-02-20 08.21.43.jpg2014-02-20 08.20.39.jpg

And here is the screws installed, and then the screen. About 2 inches to go. This is the 20th.

2014-02-19 17.34.55.jpg2014-02-20 07.51.48.jpg2014-02-20 15.24.21.jpg2014-02-20 15.24.29.jpg

This is today, about an inch to go. I will be changing my nutrients on Sun. and at that time I will switch over to 12/12. Unless you think I should go for it now.

2014-02-21 09.23.46.jpg2014-02-21 09.22.53.jpg2014-02-21 09.23.38.jpg

As the tops grow into the screen I have seen some guys that just bend them over as they come through and then tie them down. I have seen others that just keep tucking the top back under the screen while directing it the way they want it to go. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Jack
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
She looks great now, man.

When to flip the switch is a judgement call, but from my experience, it's much better to flip it too soon than too late. There's nothing worse than having a plant in flower outgrow her box, because as a grower you're helpless to correct it at that point.

The best solution, imho, is to flip it sooner rather than later. If at the end of your grow, you see that your plant could've been a few inches bigger because there was still room in your cabinet, you'll know that during your next grow, you can probably let it veg for longer than you vegged this one. Does that make sense?

All that said, most strains/phenotypes behave differently, so this plant might not be a 'stretcher' but your next one might. Keeping the plants on the slightly smaller side allows to you keep in control of your grow, and means you have a slightly faster turnaround with your grows because you're vegging for less time than you had originally planned.

As for tucking above or under the screen, that's up to you as well. I only tuck under, not over and under, and I only usually tie the main top down to the screen because the stem is at it's thickest point and usually needs to be anchored to something to keep it in place below the screen. I suspect if your plant looks like it might stretch more than you had planned, tucking over and under the screen will shrink the final total height of your plant by a couple inches more than if you had just tucked under the screen (you're using more of the stem to go over and under than just under).

I keep tucking the main top until all the other side growth reaches the screen. Once all the 'side tops' are at the same level as the main top, I usually let them all grow through the screen at that point. All the tops that have made it to the screen ideally should grow another 3-5 inches above the screen and hopefully stop stretching at that point. What you're left with is 10-20 main tops, all about 5 inches high through the screen at a consistent height and evenly spaced out.

I hope all that makes sense.

Jim
 

BSD0621

Well-Known Member
Check out my grow in my sig. i flipped as they were poking through the screen and now they are taller then I want. I tried to keep an even canopy but these 2 girls just keeps growing and growing... Like SunnyJim said, flip sooner then later.. adn keep the blue spectrum the first 2-3 weeks to minimize stretching

Good luck brotha
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
That was alot of good info.

Question for you Sunny if you dont mind. Is scrog a good idea with soil? I imagine once she starts getting tucked, a good watering would be a very hard task. I know your not using soil, but I favor soil as a noob at the moment. Just reading your post that seems to be very efficient way to use cfl lighting.

*cnt give ya anymore rep so +rep:joint:*
A scrog is a good idea with all CFL grows where the primary position of the bulbs is directly above the plant (not on the sides or below parts of the canopy). That way, you get a flat and even canopy with close proximity and a fair distribution of light over each top.

As for watering with soil grow scrogs, I'm not sure. I can comfortably reach my hand around the back of grow tray to remove dying leaves and do some light pruning. Is it an issue because you have to move your plant pot during feeding?
 

skinnysmoke

Well-Known Member
Weird - post deleted by the time I replied. Gotta be quick around here!
sorry sunny I didn't wanna get on joe's thread like that. Thought i was on your thread :o

Yep thats what I was thinking once screen up cant fully saturate with out it getting messy.
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
sorry sunny I didn't wanna get on joe's thread like that. Thought i was on your thread :o
Totally, Jack would totally lose his shit if he saw you posting questions on his thread. Just kidding!! I'm sure he won't mind a small thread hijack so other members can share information. Fire away.
 

skinnysmoke

Well-Known Member
I like to flood my soil when I water. Its used FFOF with 40% perlite added (it was like mud after the first grow poor drainage) ff liquid fert trio. now my drainage is great I just pull her out saturate every bit of soil, let her drain 15-20 min then back in with a towel under her till next day. So with her tucked in a screen I couldnt move her.(meaning future grows)
 
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