Massacre at Newtown, the (real) roots of mass murder

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
http://soundmoneysa.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/10-Biggest-Killers.png

there's the source of the graph.

"sound money SA: challenging the statist quo"

oooooooh, edgy as fuck!

seems to be a site for racist gun nuts with conspiracy theories to mill over while clinging to their guns and bibles and antipathy towards those who are different.

idiots like yktind, who can't tell the difference between capitalism and communism, are simply intent on proving obama right on that statement of fact.
While the graph is junk, I peered through the site briefly and found nothing racist at all. Didn't find much in the way of conspiracy talk either, just individual liberties.

Once again, deliberate deception. You are a shameful person.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
While the graph is junk, I peered through the site briefly and found nothing racist at all. Didn't find much in the way of conspiracy talk either, just individual liberties.

Once again, deliberate deception. You are a shameful person.
so anti-"statist", anti-commie gun nuts from south africa are generally not a racist bunch?

remind me which very racist and homophobic presidential candidate (whose name rhymes with bawn schtawl) always talked about sound money, was anti-government, pro gun, "libertarian", anti-intervention, and the like.

remind me what members here spammed about him endlessly (rhymes with schmesert glude and guyingtoblow89) and joined a white nationalist group.

a brief pass through the site aligns them with so many other predictably racist people that i am sure that's what motivates them, the focus on south africa just pushes it over the edge as far as likelihoods go. i didn't skim past page one, but i bet if i looked into it at all, i would find it easily.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
The flawed human beings are turned from pathetic individuals
to Gods with the power of life and death
by the simple addition of a firearm.

There will always be flawed individuals.
Allowing them opportunities to obtain tools that are designed with the sole purpose of taking life
is the perfect storm.

Thinking that an entire population can be made sane and calm enough for everyone to own guns with no incidence of gun violence
that's truly sad and pathetic.

Guns are OK
People are OK....
but they are terrible when they're mixed.

So we need to choose.
Guns or people???

I appreciate your concern. So you are advocating that governments give up their guns ? Great idea.
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
The author of the article is a terrible writer. He would barely get a C in high school 12th grade literature.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
He missed out completely on the fact most of these guys end up being on drugs known to induce psychotic episodes, ....
That was addressed regarding the mentally ill, and in the witty, hard driven style of prose only Charles can pull off well, he fired one of his missiles regarding "rights" -

"In the name of civil liberties, we let them die with their rights on."
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
As usual with the spin you read at RIU, not many seem to get it. READ THE FUCKIN' ARTICLE - Every mass shooting has three elements: the killer, the weapon and the cultural climate.

I found his take on the politics played out primarily by the left on the panacea that occurs after each and every mass shooting.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
....seems to be a site for racist gun nuts with conspiracy theories to mill over while clinging to their guns and bibles and antipathy towards those who are different.
Jesus, what is your problem.....this delusional fixation and obsession with racism? It's not an argument, it's drivel. There isn't a thread you join in that you don't have some dumbass remark about racism.

Get a life....
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
As many look in on the Yankee way of doing things...the rest of the world just goes wow! "how many more lives are lost thru this gun shit, how many more kids must die, before this stops, but the yankees just like to kill each other ...no longer a joke, even boring as a school kid told me!!!
LOL so true, but then again we look at Europe and go " Wow another 500 dead from riots ." Or to China and go " wow another 30 people stabbed to death." or to look at Britain and go " wow, another 30,000 video cameras put up ."

Pick your poison, getting stoned to death slowly or burning to death from a Molotov cocktail, or a bleed out from multiple stab wounds? Or a painless death by bullet?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Jesus, what is your problem.....this delusional fixation and obsession with racism? It's not an argument, it's drivel. There isn't a thread you join in that you don't have some dumbass remark about racism.

Get a life....
motive is always important.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Not to mention heart disease surpassed smoking related deaths a few years ago, for both men and women. You know, obesity. The real death of America.

Edit: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm
Tobacco isn't a cause of death. You won't ever find it listed in any of those statistics either.

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/

More than 480,000 deaths annually (including deaths from secondhand smoke) are smoking related.
Smoking cannot kill you, if it could everyone who first tried smoking would soon die. Smoking can CAUSE heart Disease, Cancer, high blood pressure, emphysema etc etc .
 

joe macclennan

Well-Known Member
I often hear how only criminals will have guns if guns are made criminal....
but in every nation with less firearm ownership
there are far fewer firearm violence.
because mexico is such a stellar example of this yes? guns are illegal there...yup, no firearm related deaths there ;)
I can't trust a graph if the person who made it couldn't even spell tobacco right
was thinking the same
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
While reading Charles Krauthammer's incredible book "Things that Matter" I came across one of his chapters that articulates quite simply what's wrong with this country regarding mass killings and what promotes them. Was going to photocopy the 2.5 pages and paste them until doing a search, finding the article. http://paxonbothhouses.blogspot.com/2012/12/charles-krauthammer-roots-of-mass-murder.html

As usual, this intellectual (and FOX news contributor) just flat nails the dynamics. Take about 3 minutes and read this if interested....it's fascinating. (emphasis's mine)

****************************************************************************************

December 20, 2012

Every mass shooting has three elements: the killer, the weapon and the cultural climate. As soon as the shooting stops, partisans immediately pick their preferred root cause with corresponding pet panacea. Names are hurled, scapegoats paraded, prejudices vented. The argument goes nowhere.

Let’s be serious:


(1) The Weapon

Within hours of last week’s Newtown, Conn., massacre, the focus was the weapon and the demand was for new gun laws. Several prominent pro-gun Democrats remorsefully professed new openness to gun control. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) is introducing a new assault weapons ban. And the president emphasized guns and ammo above all else in announcing the creation of a new task force.

I have no problem in principle with gun control. Congress enacted (and I supported) an assault weapons ban in 1994. The problem was: It didn’t work. (So concluded a University of Pennsylvania study commissioned by the Justice Department.) The reason is simple. Unless you are prepared to confiscate all existing firearms, disarm the citizenry and repeal the Second Amendment, it’s almost impossible to craft a law that will be effective.
Feinstein’s law, for example, would exempt 900 weapons. And that’s the least of the loopholes. Even the guns that are banned can be made legal with simple, minor modifications.

Most fatal, however, is the grandfathering of existing weapons and magazines. That’s one of the reasons the ’94 law failed. At the time, there were 1.5 million assault weapons in circulation and 25 million large-capacity (i.e., more than 10 bullets) magazines. A reservoir that immense can take 100 years to draw down.

(2) The Killer
Monsters shall always be with us, but in earlier days they did not roam free. As a psychiatrist in Massachusetts in the 1970s, I committed people — often right out of the emergency room — as a danger to themselves or to others. I never did so lightly, but I labored under none of the crushing bureaucratic and legal constraints that make involuntary commitment infinitely more difficult today.

Why do you think we have so many homeless? Destitution? Poverty has declined since the 1950s. The majority of those sleeping on grates are mentally ill. In the name of civil liberties, we let them die with their rights on.

A tiny percentage of the mentally ill become mass killers. Just about everyone around Tucson shooter Jared Loughner sensed he was mentally ill and dangerous. But in effect, he had to kill before he could be put away — and (forcibly) treated.

Random mass killings were three times more common in the 2000s than in the 1980s, when gun laws were actually weaker. Yet a 2011 University of California at Berkeley study found that states with strong civil commitment laws have about a one-third lower homicide rate.

(3) The Culture
We live in an entertainment culture soaked in graphic, often sadistic, violence. Older folks find themselves stunned by what a desensitized youth finds routine, often amusing. It’s not just movies. Young men sit for hours pulling video-game triggers, mowing down human beings en masse without pain or consequence. And we profess shock when a small cadre of unstable, deeply deranged, dangerously isolated young men go out and enact the over learned narrative.

If we’re serious about curtailing future Columbines and Newtowns, everything — guns, commitment, culture — must be on the table. It’s not hard for President Obama to call out the NRA. But will he call out the ACLU? And will he call out his Hollywood friends?

The irony is that over the last 30 years, the U.S. homicide rate has declined by 50 percent. Gun murders as well. We’re living not through an epidemic of gun violence but through a historic decline.

Except for these unfathomable mass murders. But these are infinitely more difficult to prevent. While law deters the rational, it has far less effect on the psychotic. The best we can do is to try to detain them, disarm them and discourage “entertainment” that can intensify already murderous impulses.

But there’s a cost. Gun control impinges upon the Second Amendment; involuntary commitment impinges upon the liberty clause of the Fifth Amendment; curbing “entertainment” violence impinges upon First Amendment free speech.

That’s a lot of impingement, a lot of amendments. But there’s no free lunch. Increasing public safety almost always means restricting liberties.

We made that trade after 9/11. We make it every time the Transportation Security Administration invades your body at an airport. How much are we prepared to trade away after Newtown?

The Washington Post, December 20, 2012
You don't, of course, see any flaws in his arguments do you.

Although I agree that gun deaths, an over abundance of lawyers, and abortion, is simply damage collateral to our rights.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Lol, Okay graph deleted.

Anyway the point being that Guns are not the number one killer in America today.

I'll look for a legitimate source. Feel free to post a real graph if you have one handy.

No Graph but I did find the leading causes (They didn't narrow down tobacco vs. guns though):
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm


Number of deaths for leading causes of death


  • Heart disease: 597,689
  • Cancer: 574,743
  • Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 138,080
  • Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 129,476
  • Accidents (unintentional injuries): 120,859
  • Alzheimer's disease: 83,494
  • Diabetes: 69,071
  • Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,476
  • Influenza and Pneumonia: 50,097
  • Intentional self-harm (suicide): 38,364
Nope, guns are not the number one killer, so why should we do anything about it until it at least reaches number three? Many of the other killers are self inflicted. Gun killings are not - there is no choice anywhere inherent in being shot through the head, the other killers are either acts of nature or personal choice. What irks me is when the gun wackos hold that mass shootings are "acts of nature".

Don't get into it with me about 2nd amendment rights, I support ALL amendments - got it? ALL of them. But I tire of these incessant gun rights arguments. Guns don't kill people but people with guns kill people more easily and they do it with some regularity, and I don't like my choices in that regard but just don't continue to force this gun menaltiy down my throat - NO ONE is going to take your guns away ok? sheesh, it goes on and on and on and on. Gun owners are not protecting my freedom half as much as I am protecting theirs. It is far easier to protect the 2nd with the first than it is to protect the first with the second.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
I am not afraid to admit ignorance, Buck. I took the graph down and put a nice little note saying that it was not a legitimate source.

I did a Google search and posted the first graph I saw without checking the source. The fact still remains that guns are not the biggest threat to our civilization.

Next up on Bucks insults... You sir are a racist.


You believe in Voter ID?
 

DutchKillsRambo

Well-Known Member
Tobacco isn't a cause of death. You won't ever find it listed in any of those statistics either.

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/

More than 480,000 deaths annually (including deaths from secondhand smoke) are smoking related.
Smoking cannot kill you, if it could everyone who first tried smoking would soon die. Smoking can CAUSE heart Disease, Cancer, high blood pressure, emphysema etc etc .
They can still extrapolate what is the largest factor in cause of death. Though I may be wrong in obesity being the largest killer; it's just the highest proportion of healthcare related costs. Personally I can't wait till fat people start paying their way for healthcare. Smokers are punished pretty harshly, why not fatties?
 
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