IF you are new to LED and want help choosing what to buy, POST HERE!

[FranJan]

There are BD fans out there, can't deny it but there are so many better options I feel. I don't know what people see in them. Wattage is just all wrong for the price. I call it the sledgehammer grow style. Take some big inefficient LEDs and drive them as hard as you can. Then you watch your e-meter run of the hook for 4 months and bingo you got bud. Then you repeat that cycle till you figure out you've been had and then you hit yourself in the head with a fuckin' sledgehammer for being so stoopid for buying a BD and not for buying something with better diodes. LOL You're better off buying a room full of Vipars for the 1900 bucks a BD XL will run. But that's just my crazy-ass opinion.

 

[The Dawg]

There are BD fans out there, can't deny it but there are so many better options I feel. I don't know what people see in them. Wattage is just all wrong for the price. I call it the sledgehammer grow style. Take some big inefficient LEDs and drive them as hard as you can. Then you watch your e-meter run of the hook for 4 months and bingo you got bud. Then you repeat that cycle till you figure out you've been had and then you hit yourself in the head with a fuckin' sledgehammer for being so stoopid for buying a BD and not for buying something with better diodes. LOL You're better off buying a room full of Vipars for the 1900 bucks a BD XL will run. But that's just my crazy-ass opinion.

Well I Didnt Know Frogs Had Asses

 

[Bad Karma]

There are BD fans out there, can't deny it but there are so many better options I feel. I don't know what people see in them. Wattage is just all wrong for the price. I call it the sledgehammer grow style. Take some big inefficient LEDs and drive them as hard as you can. Then you watch your e-meter run of the hook for 4 months and bingo you got bud. Then you repeat that cycle till you figure out you've been had and then you hit yourself in the head with a fuckin' sledgehammer for being so stoopid for buying a BD and not for buying something with better diodes. LOL You're better off buying a room full of Vipars for the 1900 bucks a BD XL will run. But that's just my crazy-ass opinion.

You've got a good point, FranJan.
I was just trying to name off single LED panels that could legit cover a 4x4, that were in his price range, that I had seen work.
Greengenes already got me for omitting the big Apache light.

 

[FranJan]

^^^I gotcha BK and we should keep expanding our horizons and keep paying attention to other products, otherwise we'll end up in that group-think mentality hole, recommending the same panels again and again. I guess at the end of the day I just hate BDs for their price. See. I won't even say their name cause I'm so biased. LOL

Peace BK.

still looking for second opinions on best LEDs to keep mother plants in a 2 x 4 flood tray. was told the hans mother plant panels would be best, anyone disagree? are these truly the best panels for my moms? money is not an issue, i just want the best lights for them

Myles! Where are ya. Remember most any lights can keep Mom's. It really depends how many clones you'll be taking. You take 10 a month, get some 10000K + 630nm multi-chip spotlights off Ebay. 10 a week, get an Apache. Lots of panels will work for Moms btw. And don't say money is no object to a LED salesman. He'll take it. Good Luck.

 

[Javadog]

This is where I usually add "Google is your friend"...
...but in the case, I am not so certain...

JD

 

[Myles117]

ill be taking 25 per month roughly. and i want the moms to be short (2 feet tall) and just LST em to get plenty of tops over n over. so apache it is? please toss a link to the unit i should be getting. would hate to screw up n get wrong one lol

 

[rawpot420]

Has anyone used bonsai hero led lights? Wondering if any good before I buy

 

[monkeychief]

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen,

I agree BD's will do the job as I have both his bloom and veg. big 700w mutt but u can get the same with the Gehl Gaea 5watters with reflectors or LG Mars II 5w which are almost identical to the BD's for bout 1/4 price. Probably from the same production line. Buying factory direct also gives u the option of running custom spectrum. The jury's still out on the 5watters efficacy as it's currently only running half of it's capacity due to heat and efficiency issues. The most important thing is to pay attention to the actual wattage and not the rated wattage. As far as spectrum, don't fall for all the bs claims of super proprietary spectrum that will make the girls go crazy cause if it's a red spectrum, most of it's the tried and trued 11+ band spec. that everyone's using. The spectrum is a whole discussion in itself.I would recommend the following for it's price-performance and cost-effectiveness. If you can, try to split the total wattage into 2 panels for better coverage instead of a single high-power unit. The following is for up to a 4x4 footprint.

Brand-name:

2 A51 A190's Very well american-made panels that offer great price-performance if u want to be patriotic. U can get the same performance going factory direct from china for less than half with Crees if u wish but not needed.

Factory direct from china. Don't laugh people, only a handful of makes are actually us made, but that consists of americans assembling foreign made parts. By the time u add the US canna-specific name on and our wages, the price inflates 3-4x. The question now is how feasible and limit of is our patriotism.1827 1055 587

2 GEHL X-grow 189x approx. 400w actual depending on your spectrum. This will give u an incredible par of 1827, 1055, 587umols at 20, 60, and 90cm respectively. This is more than what my BD's big 700w mutts are putting out with 5w running no secondary lens.

For all you BD fans and the 5watters the LG Mars II or better GEHL with reflectors will duplicate the mutt's performance and quality. Don't let the marketing bs get u, they're made along with HGL's, Spectras, Advanced, Stealth, and most other so-called brand names are made on the exact production lines with the same identical parts.

 

[monkeychief]

Has anyone used bonsai hero led lights? Wondering if any good before I buy

For $240, you can do a lot better than 65w. This myth bout using 1/4-1/3 of hid's wattage has been seriously busted. 65w for a 2x2 is wishful as the minimum wattage per sqft. is 49-50W. This is a panel with no secondary lens with reflectors only and somehow it's suppose to defy the law of physics. For that price u can even go with a economical Blackstar 240 that will give u 2x the wattage or better yet one of those standard 100x3w factory direct panels that will give u over 200w actual wattage.

 

[medicinehuman]

For $240, you can do a lot better than 65w. This myth bout using 1/4-1/3 of hid's wattage has been seriously busted. 65w for a 2x2 is wishful as the minimum wattage per sqft. is 49-50W. This is a panel with no secondary lens with reflectors only and somehow it's suppose to defy the law of physics. For that price u can even go with a economical Blackstar 240 that will give u 2x the wattage or better yet one of those standard 100x3w factory direct panels that will give u over 200w actual wattage.

Hans panel (Bonsai) has high quality CREE LEDs. Watts are not the total picture, I have an 80watt Pineapple Chunk grow going now, Vegging on 38 watts. If they last a long time is the big question for me.

 

[monkeychief]

Hans panel (Bonsai) has high quality CREE LEDs. Watts are not the total picture, I have an 80watt Pineapple Chunk grow going now, Vegging on 38 watts. If they last a long time is the big question for me.

I agree with u and never doubts it's quality especially with a name like Hans. I love their cars just wished this one had the kind of power their cars have. Do u have a journal cause I'm very interested to see how u do with them. I've grown with everything from r/b ufo's all the way up to BD's with wattage from 50w-1400w actual leds wattage into a 4x4. I can tell u from my experience that 65w into a 2x2 will have to be a miracle especially our light-intensive girls. Without enough intensity, u will end up with airy, popcorn, cotton balls with very little mass similar to floro's grown meds. How many panels are u running in what size footprint and are u experiencing stretching with only 38w? The Crees advantage is purely academic because in real life application, it's not even considering. As far as dependability, they will amaze u as I have units running 18 hours a day at 300w actual draw for amost 3 yrs. now without a glitch and this includes the factory direct china panels which are exactly the same as 90% of the brand names. I've used and still using both and see no difference visually and performance between them.

 

[hyroot]

I agree with u and never doubts it's quality especially with a name like Hans. I love their cars just wished this one had the kind of power their cars have. Do u have a journal cause I'm very interested to see how u do with them. I've grown with everything from r/b ufo's all the way up to BD's with wattage from 50w-1400w actual leds wattage into a 4x4. I can tell u from my experience that 65w into a 2x2 will have to be a miracle especially our light-intensive girls. Without enough intensity, u will end up with airy, popcorn, cotton balls with very little mass similar to floro's grown meds. How many panels are u running in what size footprint and are u experiencing stretching with only 38w? The Crees advantage is purely academic because in real life application, it's not even considering. As far as dependability, they will amaze u as I have units running 18 hours a day at 300w actual draw for amost 3 yrs. now without a glitch and this includes the factory direct china panels which are exactly the same as 90% of the brand names. I've used and still using both and see no difference visually and performance between them.

there's at least 10 threads using Hans panels in this the led section. Everyone gets at least 1.5gpw... Watts means nothing. Its about umole/s and cri and efficiency.

 

[FranJan]

Hi kids my name is FranJan and I think it's time to have a quick lesson for all you newbs trying to sort out all this LED stuff So let's take a moment to dissect this Monkeychief's salesman's routine BS. It's good practice for you as good little LED consumers to remember to think with your heads and not just your wallets, which is what Monkeystains is after.

First off Monkeythief's complete lack of proper English grammar, or even hood-speak ftm, is a sure sign you are entering a world of soulless, remorseless Chinese salespeople, (Shields UP!), who are basically doing the wishes of their communist overlords. And that wish is to separate Americans and Europeans from their money and put it into Chinese banks. There is no BBB in China that's gonna save you from these scheisters. They don't give a fuck about you. Only your money. Also kids, Chinese made diodes cannot compete with American made diodes atm. It's not even close. China puts together people's designs and ideas. Their ideas tend to be pedestrian, stolen and/or perverted by their detestable, corrupt politicians, poor education and their soulless ideology.

Let's sample some statements now:

"A51 A190's Very well american-made panels that offer great price-performance if u want to be patriotic. U can get the same performance going factory direct from china for less than half with Crees if u wish but not needed"

I mean what the fuck is he talking about? No direct panel from some mystery factory is going to compete with an A51 watt for watt. A51 uses Cree diodes because of their efficacy. Which means you don't have to use as many watts to get the light out, unlike the majority of Chinese made diodes. This is why direct panels have high wattage. They need to draw more power in order to compete with more efficient offerings from CREE or OSRAM or Illumitex, or even anything that comes out of The Free Republic of Taiwan. (Oooooo sick burn, Monkeybreath). When a China direct salesperson touts their wattage draw, it's to use the old American "bigger is better ideology" and to confuse draw and radiometric output. This is a Red Herring and the fact is, he's telling you his LEDs suck and need to burn more energy to compete.

"For that price u can even go with a economical Blackstar 240 that will give u 2x the wattage or better yet one of those standard 100x3w factory direct panels that will give u over 200w actual wattage."

You must remember kiddies wattage for panels is their total draw and has ALMOST NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ABILITY OF A PANEL TO GROW WEED. LEDS ARE NOT VACUUM TUBES! Chinese diodes suck monkey balls compared to actual CREE LEDs. And no folks, no 130 watt Blackstar 240 is going to outgrow a Hans 65 watt panel. Hans panels use some of the best diodes available. BS use whatever diodes that some drunk salesman can sell to another drunk salesman this quarter. Blackstars are inefficient POS compared to A51 or Hans. Do they grow weed, yes they do. I've owned some. Do they do it well or cheaply, no they don't. You pay your electrical company the money you're saving up front when you buy direct. So in the long run, direct costs much more.

"The Crees advantage is purely academic because in real life application, it's not even considering."

Statements like this make no sense. It's just declaratory. It provides no proof and is just a smokescreen to help confuse you. Can you find more of his poor use of logic and obvious nationalism? Go ahead it's good practice in rooting out people like this.

So what have we learned kiddies? Please think critically. Do not believe the one sided arguments of salespeople. This person is some kind of Pro-China shill and is not here to help you. He/They are here to confuse you and you must be aware that in the LED world shills like this exist all over RIU.

I'll leave you with this. If a car is as good as a Lamborghini, you don't sell it for 30 or 40 % less. Maybe 10%, but not 30 or 40% less. Only an idiot would do that and you don't want to buy something from some idiot. Right?

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Lol........^^^............very nice froggy................One of your best outside of the party cup comp

 

[PetFlora]

FJ, wanted to Rep you for monkey-bashing, but apparently I need to rep others first.

Where's the Fn LIKE button?

 

[FranJan]

^^^Thanks guys, but I'm just peforming my patriotic duties and my community services all at once . Now if I can just figure out how to rewire my broken Illumitex panel, (I just had to fuck with it ), in the next two hours before lights on, it'll be a good day for the Franster. LOL See-ya.

 

[Myles117]

franjans post should be its own sticky

 

[PSUAGRO.]

^^^Thanks guys, but I'm just peforming my patriotic duties and my community services all at once . Now if I can just figure out how to rewire my broken Illumitex panel, (I just had to fuck with it ), in the next two hours before lights on, it'll be a good day for the Franster. LOL See-ya.

Why would you Fuck with the neosol panel at all?......thoughts on it's performance so far? For the love of God put up some pics!!

 

[medicinehuman]

Hi kids my name is FranJan and I think it's time to have a quick lesson for all you newbs trying to sort out all this LED stuff So let's take a moment to dissect this Monkeychief's salesman's routine BS. It's good practice for you as good little LED consumers to remember to think with your heads and not just your wallets, which is what Monkeystains is after.

First off Monkeythief's complete lack of proper English grammar, or even hood-speak ftm, is a sure sign you are entering a world of soulless, remorseless Chinese salespeople, (Shields UP!), who are basically doing the wishes of their communist overlords. And that wish is to separate Americans and Europeans from their money and put it into Chinese banks. There is no BBB in China that's gonna save you from these scheisters. They don't give a fuck about you. Only your money. Also kids, Chinese made diodes cannot compete with American made diodes atm. It's not even close. China puts together people's designs and ideas. Their ideas tend to be pedestrian, stolen and/or perverted by their detestable, corrupt politicians, poor education and their soulless ideology.

Let's sample some statements now:

"A51 A190's Very well american-made panels that offer great price-performance if u want to be patriotic. U can get the same performance going factory direct from china for less than half with Crees if u wish but not needed"

I mean what the fuck is he talking about? No direct panel from some mystery factory is going to compete with an A51 watt for watt. A51 uses Cree diodes because of their efficacy. Which means you don't have to use as many watts to get the light out, unlike the majority of Chinese made diodes. This is why direct panels have high wattage. They need to draw more power in order to compete with more efficient offerings from CREE or OSRAM or Illumitex, or even anything that comes out of The Free Republic of Taiwan. (Oooooo sick burn, Monkeybreath). When a China direct salesperson touts their wattage draw, it's to use the old American "bigger is better ideology" and to confuse draw and radiometric output. This is a Red Herring and the fact is, he's telling you his LEDs suck and need to burn more energy to compete.

"For that price u can even go with a economical Blackstar 240 that will give u 2x the wattage or better yet one of those standard 100x3w factory direct panels that will give u over 200w actual wattage."

You must remember kiddies wattage for panels is their total draw and has ALMOST NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ABILITY OF A PANEL TO GROW WEED. LEDS ARE NOT VACUUM TUBES! Chinese diodes suck monkey balls compared to actual CREE LEDs. And no folks, no 130 watt Blackstar 240 is going to outgrow a Hans 65 watt panel. Hans panels use some of the best diodes available. BS use whatever diodes that some drunk salesman can sell to another drunk salesman this quarter. Blackstars are inefficient POS compared to A51 or Hans. Do they grow weed, yes they do. I've owned some. Do they do it well or cheaply, no they don't. You pay your electrical company the money you're saving up front when you buy direct. So in the long run, direct costs much more.

"The Crees advantage is purely academic because in real life application, it's not even considering."

Statements like this make no sense. It's just declaratory. It provides no proof and is just a smokescreen to help confuse you. Can you find more of his poor use of logic and obvious nationalism? Go ahead it's good practice in rooting out people like this.

So what have we learned kiddies? Please think critically. Do not believe the one sided arguments of salespeople. This person is some kind of Pro-China shill and is not here to help you. He/They are here to confuse you and you must be aware that in the LED world shills like this exist all over RIU.

I'll leave you with this. If a car is as good as a Lamborghini, you don't sell it for 30 or 40 % less. Maybe 10%, but not 30 or 40% less. Only an idiot would do that and you don't want to buy something from some idiot. Right?

I agree. No more China crap for me. I bought 1 couple of years ago, used it 8 weeks. Just sold it CHEAP 2 day's ago. too warm, too noisey.

 

[FranJan]

Why would you Fuck with the neosol panel at all?......thoughts on it's performance so far? For the love of God put up some pics!!

Had to. It's a disease. Performance for it's draw is stupendous. Great growth, I'm only vegging with it though. Completely shits on my BS240 since that's the only LED panel I can compare it to in veg. Blows away all my XP white multi chips too. The 730nm seems to be causing a lot of stretch during training, I'm running a F1, which is like 630, 730, and 450 I believe. Should of went with the very blue F7 but they didn't have those. I'm gonna whip out some 12000K spots and see if I can correct the stretch. Root growth is tremendous from the transplants I've done, and I suck at growing roots .

Oh it's not a Neosol, it's a third party panel. 24xF1 on 3 bars.

25 minutes. BRB