My recent led thoughts ...

stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Well...
Nothing to do today,just sit home..
A bit sick ...

I see a lot of debate in the forum about "Eastern" vs "Western" leds ....
And companies ....

I'm a pure LED DIYer ..
I would never be buying a led grow panel ,from any company out there ...

More or less,to run a company with profit ,there are always "restrictions"..
Which ,in case of led grow panel industry-as leds already being expensive high-tech devices, for east or west-,
trnslates in most of cases in 'final product compromises " ...

(Maybe also to reasure the product's ...evolution..next series ...you get it ...)

For most such companies ,growers are 'clients' ,'consumers', 'profit sources,etc ...

In order of profit ..
That's how it works ....

If I did not had those DIY skills ,what would I buy then ?
(* I would have been forced to buy ...)
Well ...
I guess ...
I would never buy any 'Eastern' made and promoted light ....
And from 'Western ,There are only few candidates ...Area 51 for sure ,on top .I like the companys mentality,standards and quality.And the rational prices..Han's is a very good alternative..Specially if he's wlling to make a Mixed White-Deep/or Mixed red based panel....
Reasonable prices both for high quality.And they both offer leds that do actually work.There are some more ,but way expensive,for what they are offering ...Asking too much of a profit ,for their ...designs ..(which as a DIYer I can easily replicate ,in way less lower final cost .Trust me on that .)

The rest are BS.
Pure BS.


But ...
If still my budget was way low ,or even if I had already an Area 51 panel...
(In fact I wish I had one ...Great piece of equipment ...)
I would still try to build myself cheap small arrays,from 'Eastern materials' ...
....
Maybe then later I would've build a better one with more expensive Western materials ...


Shit...
I would have ended up a DIYer ,again...
Exactly where I stand ,at this exact moment...

There's no way to escape yourself ...
Yeah..
 
kinddiesel

kinddiesel

Well-Known Member
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
kinddiesel said:
I bought this light . http://www.ebay.com/itm/300W-LED-Grow-Light-Full-Spectrum-IR-For-Indoor-Grow-Greenhouse-Hydroponic-Plant-/291003115391?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item43c123277f its not total bull shit . it works better then a 8 bulb 4 foot t5 set up/ the difference is the led only pulls 200 watts or electric and the t5 set up uses 450 watts . so that saves me 250 watts running 24/7 that's huge for me. but you think there all bull shit so I suggest you don't buy .
Click to expand...
That light ,alone ,as is wont work for flowering.
No way.
It might veg decently,but that 's about how far it goes ...
If you perform some 'tunning',then that light it has great potentional..
Still for the money involved ,I could have made a better DIY light.
Not at same Wattage maybe ,but much more efficient,in many ways ...

In fact I like that light as a .."tunning" project..
I like it a lot...
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Oddjob said:
@ stardustsailor

What is your opinion of the Apache Tech AT600?
Click to expand...
Listen ..
I really can't have a true opinion for anythng that I did not test ...

I've only one thing to say for that light .
Even If I'll get criticized ...

Way overpriced .
Another renown US company ,you know the Roswell -related , offers
same quality (if not better ) at logical,down-to -Earth prices ...
Maybe after all,one has the 'name' but the other one came really from outer space.
Ouch...Not for me ....
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
I'm with ya SDS. The 3 panels I like are fairly open about their emitters and bins. Hans, A51 and now the Onyx and they are all running at about 30% efficient. It has been said that Apache uses top bins but the Nichia219b has quite a large range so itsa mystery. DIY can be up to 43% efficient and cost less/W so it is worth the effort :leaf:
 
E

Eraserhead

Well-Known Member
Do you have any data sheets on the Nichias? I'd like to see some numbers of theirs compared to the Cree XTE and XML2s.

My opinion, if they were as good as certain people on here would like us to think, they are better than anything available including anything Cree, there'd be some datasheets somewhere to back it up.

Your opinions? Have you compared both datasheets?

I've some Nichia datasheets, they seem to be 2w or so. But, apparently they have some "5w" LEDs now, do you know of these?

SupraSPL said:
I'm with ya SDS. The 3 panels I like are fairly open about their emitters and bins. Hans, A51 and now the Onyx and they are all running at about 30% efficient. It has been said that Apache uses top bins but the Nichia219b has quite a large range so itsa mystery. DIY can be up to 43% efficient and cost less/W so it is worth the effort :leaf:
Click to expand...
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
It seems their site is out of date and very lacking in information about the lamp unless i am looking in the wrong place. GG you said they are using 630nm red + 4200K now?
 
SnapsProvolone

SnapsProvolone

Well-Known Member
I don't think you should compare diy cost with off the shelf retail. A lot goes into manufacturing an approved product and marketing it. If no money is to be made why bother.
 
MrFlux

MrFlux

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
SnapsProvolone said:
I don't think you should compare diy cost with off the shelf retail. A lot goes into manufacturing an approved product and marketing it. If no money is to be made why bother.
Click to expand...
You are right, of course they need to make a decent profit. But it is important for us to know what the rewards of diy are. Most commercial panels are 30% efficient and cost $3-$4/W. DIY can be 39% for about $2/W. That is 30% more light for half the price.
 
SnapsProvolone

SnapsProvolone

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
You are right, of course they need to make a decent profit. But it is important for us to know what the rewards of diy are. Most commercial panels are 30% efficient and cost $3-$4/W. DIY can be 39% for about $2/W. That is 30% more light for half the price.
Click to expand...
Very cool. Not many would be skilled enough to pull off a good reliable build but for those with the skills and time I agree a savings is there.

On a side note, can you bust out a panel that can replicate 1kW hortilux yield over a 4x4 per timeframe? I know that LED is getting close. Does the improved performance of your gear bring things up to equal? Are there reliablity issues? I'm seriously asking as I dream of changing from HPS but not at a cost in productivity, yield or quality.
 
SnapsProvolone

SnapsProvolone

Well-Known Member
Another thought, LED tech changes so fast that by the time a manufacturer gets a prouduct to market, newer components make it obsolete by DIY standards.
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Yes with COBs it is now easy to add as much light as you like. If you were motivated to do it, you could increase the intensity far above what a 1K HPS can create (360 PAR Watts - 25% reflector losses = 270 PAR Watts) Assuming you could handle the heat, here is the maximum you could do reasonably in a 4'X4' with COBs:

(8 ) heatsinks 10"X6" - $400
(32) CXA3070 3000K - $1400
(32) Meanwell LPC-60-1400 -$600
(8 ) 120mm or 140mm fans $50
(1) 12V 3.2A power supply $7
misc wiring, connectors, chains, solder $100

Total cost $2557
Total LED dissipation Wattage - 1670 (605 PAR Watts, 1065W heat)
Efficiency 36.24%
$1.53/Watt
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
I think they are using 4200K, might be 4700k though, not 100% on that. With the reds going it comes out to 2773K based on apache's spec sheet...
http://growershouse.com/images/PDFs/Apache_SpecsheetATWR23W.pdf.pdf
I know AT drives them less than 700mA. More efficient and better output/w, as you all already know.

The spectral graph is a little not too 21st century and there is a lot of Japanese...but the info as far as flux, bins, output, etc is all in the links.


Just for fun I like this chip...it just a 1w'er...but it's got great numbers... https://www.nichia.co.jp/specification/products/led/NS9W383-E.pdf.
 
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