2000$ budget what light should i get?

[joe macclennan]

Apache Tech all the way!
The Black Dog may grow buds in the short term, but the way it's diodes are driven, it will burn itself out quickly.
Find member Greengenes707 in the LED forums, he is our resident Apache Tech expert.
He can give you give you all of the details and a discount code for added savings.







Oddjob, if you want something that works as advertised, pull the trigger on an Apache, or wait it out for A51.
I have grown with HPS, T5, CFL, LED, and sunlight.
Out of all of those, if I could choose only one type of light to grow with, it would be LED, without a second thought.
I know it's unnerving to throw down a good chunk of cash like $2K and HOPE that you made the right choice.
I can tell you from first hand experience, Area 51 is the real deal.
Their lights do exactly what they claim to, if you don't believe me, ask this Cheeseberry plant that was grown under one.



When I bought my first LED lights, around 4 years ago, I spent well over $3K.
I still have them and they're still going strong.
Those lights only have 1W diodes, but look what can be done with those 1W diodes.
Apache has much better technology this.





As for the Top LED Mars II panels, I would stay away.
I know they seem tempting, but if you want something that works as advertised, they are not the way to go.
Drunk girls at last call seem tempting, too.
But drunk girls at last call, girls that you know you'll never see again, are always the ones that give you herpes.
Stay strong and hang in there for something better, you're worth it.

• what panels are those for that second pic bad karma?
  
  i have never seen plants under led grow that large of colas. Also what strain was it?​
  
  
  
  

 

[Greengenes707]

It's not so much that I'm "calling you out", but rather disagreeing with something you said on a forum.

I am disagreeing with you on the fact you said A51 is a copy. I disagree with that. And also A51s regarding 4x4 coverage.

In order for A51 to be a copy, I would have had to sit down and say, "how should I go about copying the Apache?" "What do I need to do to copy this..."? I never did that.

It's not like that, I never plotted on how to copy Apache, never planned to copy them and their work.

A51 is more of a, competition to the Apache. 2 different things, serving the same purpose, just one cost less than the other. Both are equally American in my book. Apache uses Japanese and Taiwanese parts, but has some old people solder and assemble them in the USA. A51 gets parts from the USA and does assembly split between China and the USA. End parts will say which is better. Do you know of any datasheets that correspond with the LEDs that Apache uses? I have some parts numbers for A51's LEDs. Let's all of us put up the exact sheets that are used and compare which is more efficient, I'm sure one of the resident RIU DIY guys can crunch the numbers for you.

So, I'm not calling you out as an "Apache" owner. I'm just disagreeing with you, and in order to prove myself correct, I will fund the entire grow-off. Then I will prove you wrong, or right, and we'll all move on as a forum. I can take a loss, no biggie, but to accept the loss, I need definitive defeat, believe that.

I never said a51 couldn't cover a 4x4 you are either mis reading or twisting my words...I said that at the point of 4 panels(which is what it takes to compare to a 1000whps in a 4x4 with either at200/120's or a51 panels) you can get 4 of the at200 in one with the at600, for the same price basically as 4 a51's. And that is true. So if you disagree that it would take less then 4 to compare then prove it...but based on the numbers, and my experience 4 is what it will take.

Here is the quote you claim that I say a51 won't cover...read it again man...

Nice dude, what's your plan for your at200's??

For this guy and his 4x4 he is going to need more than 2 littler units, and at200's get pricy quick. But...you get four at200's in one housing with the at600 for the same price as 2 little units. I used to say a51 was the best bang for the buck, but now that only applies to the smaller units in low numbers. Once you get to four units/1000w equivalent coverage and intensity, the at600 is the same price. I think if you have the space(4x4+) and are wanting true 1000hps like results then the at600 is one of the best bangs for the bucks in american panels. I bet you guys never thought that would be said about AT.
Like I said, their website blows, but the product is legit. They are all about showing that they are superior...just usually they do it in presentations to facility mangers and whatnot, and they don't realize that many common buyers need that info online.

Like I said, I just said that at the point of 4x4 coverage/1000w comparative, the two become similarly priced and that was a big factor to many when looking at 4 at200's vs 4 a51's...and whether you choose to acknowledge it, many compare the Apache's and a51's. It's only about 5% more cost for the at600 at that point vs the 4 a51's. So if there some actual time where I said 4 a51 wouldn't cover 4x4 show me, but you will more likely find me telling people the same thing...2 a51 isn't enough for a 4x4, 3-4 is, preferably 4.

You also act like I don't practice what I preach...I share my work openly for all to judge and see. Good or bad I show it.

 

[Bad Karma]

• what panels are those for that second pic bad karma?
  
  i have never seen plants under led grow that large of colas. Also what strain was it?
  ​

The lights you're asking about are ProSource 180W Illuminators.
They're the older, 1W diode model, but they still grow nice bud.

As for the strain, all of those were Ripped Bubba's, grown from seed.
They came out very uniform with only a few inch variance between plants.

 

[Eraserhead]

many compare the Apache's and a51's.

Comparing is one thing, but going around saying it is a copy is wrong. IT IS NOT A COPY.

As long as you're going around calling it a copy, I'll be there to correct you on it. Believe that.

Man, I wish I could confront you in person.... What cannabis expos are you at?

 

[Eraserhead]

Tags, don't you recall the PMs we had not so long ago?

Both me and you were above A51/Apache pissing matches? We weren't gonna promote one LED and dis the other?

Don't you remember this?

I have nothing but respect for Apache. But I have feelings differing about you. I liked our "truce", not trash talking each other. You know, this is a 2 way street Tags, right?

If you do not remember what I am saying, let me refresh your memory....

You were talking about how much more PAR the AT200 had than the SGS-160 at the 12" center, I PM'd you and pointed out that A51 used 80° lenses and Apache used 14° lenses, and if A51 used tighter lenses they'd have higher PAR in the center. You remember that Tags?

I thought you'd leave A51 alone, and I'd leave Apache alone. Seemed like a good deal...

Since you're the Apache rep here, what do you have to say? Is our truce done?

You can promote Apache all you want, you can tell potential customers that the fan vents are lined in gold and Willy Wonka will give you a free blowie with every purchase, but there is no need to throw A51 under the bus wheels (by saying it's a copy) to do so.

I do not, nor do A51 owners talk trash about Apache, not even in passive/aggressive jabs like you do. Is it too much that we ask the same out of you?

...

 

[Eraserhead]

I'd like to nominate Hyroot for the side by side, at least as of now... I'd like to see his plans to get it done.

I'm serious about this side by side, I'm gonna fund the whole thing, it's not like I'm broke...

 

[sourdieselyumyum]

awww shit lol

 

[hyroot]

Sweet....dude..... sweet

 

[foreverflyhi]

I'd like to nominate Hyroot for the side by side, at least as of now... I'd like to see his plans to get it done.

I'm serious about this side by side, I'm gonna fund the whole thing, it's not like I'm broke...

S nominate me! I got the space and time ( and money too!!) look Into my past grows, I got it down

 

[Eraserhead]

Both of you hit me up with your best idea to do this.

Sweet....dude..... sweet

S nominate me! I got the space and time ( and money too!!) look Into my past grows, I got it down

This is going to happen, mark my words.

 

[PetFlora]

Willy Wonka is gay? Say it ain't so

Tags, don't you recall the PMs we had not so long ago?

Both me and you were above A51/Apache pissing matches? We weren't gonna promote one LED and dis the other?

Don't you remember this?

I have nothing but respect for Apache. But I have feelings differing about you. I liked our "truce", not trash talking each other. You know, this is a 2 way street Tags, right?

If you do not remember what I am saying, let me refresh your memory....

You were talking about how much more PAR the AT200 had than the SGS-160 at the 12" center, I PM'd you and pointed out that A51 used 80° lenses and Apache used 14° lenses, and if A51 used tighter lenses they'd have higher PAR in the center. You remember that Tags?

I thought you'd leave A51 alone, and I'd leave Apache alone. Seemed like a good deal...

Since you're the Apache rep here, what do you have to say? Is our truce done?

You can promote Apache all you want, you can tell potential customers that the fan vents are lined in gold and Willy Wonka will give you a free blowie with every purchase, but there is no need to throw A51 under the bus wheels (by saying it's a copy) to do so.

I do not, nor do A51 owners talk trash about Apache, not even in passive/aggressive jabs like you do. Is it too much that we ask the same out of you?

 

[foreverflyhi]

Both of you hit me up with your best idea to do this.





This is going to happen, mark my words.

pm sent! Plz check inbox good sir

 

[hyroot]

Both of you hit me up with your best idea to do this.





This is going to happen, mark my words.

I sent you a pm too. Thanks

 

[Bad Karma]

Both of you hit me up with your best idea to do this.

This is going to happen, mark my words.

Hyroot and Flyhi just became Paul Heyman guys, nice.
I figured Dawg and I were already considered too closely associated with A51 to be considered impartial.
Do it up right, gentlemen.

 

[joe macclennan]

The lights you're asking about are ProSource 180W Illuminators.
They're the older, 1W diode model, but they still grow nice bud.

As for the strain, all of those were Ripped Bubba's, grown from seed.
They came out very uniform with only a few inch variance between plants.

how many panels? or actual watts/sq.ft roughly?

I have never seen leds produce buds this large...especially the older ones.

not trolling here. genuinely interested. I have a lot of hope for led.

 

[Greengenes707]

Tags, don't you recall the PMs we had not so long ago?

Both me and you were above A51/Apache pissing matches? We weren't gonna promote one LED and dis the other?

Don't you remember this?

I have nothing but respect for Apache. But I have feelings differing about you. I liked our "truce", not trash talking each other. You know, this is a 2 way street Tags, right?

If you do not remember what I am saying, let me refresh your memory....

You were talking about how much more PAR the AT200 had than the SGS-160 at the 12" center, I PM'd you and pointed out that A51 used 80° lenses and Apache used 14° lenses, and if A51 used tighter lenses they'd have higher PAR in the center. You remember that Tags?

I thought you'd leave A51 alone, and I'd leave Apache alone. Seemed like a good deal...

Since you're the Apache rep here, what do you have to say? Is our truce done?

You can promote Apache all you want, you can tell potential customers that the fan vents are lined in gold and Willy Wonka will give you a free blowie with every purchase, but there is no need to throw A51 under the bus wheels (by saying it's a copy) to do so.

I do not, nor do A51 owners talk trash about Apache, not even in passive/aggressive jabs like you do. Is it too much that we ask the same out of you?

You are ridiculous...if you think that your unit is more similar to an evo than an apache then I am willy wonka.
I have now said the words copy twice that you have found...and you will find just one more...along the lines of "I only support a51 because they are basically a copy of apache"...and I said that while defending a51 in a battle about coverage in a 4x4...you can twist my words to make me seem like I bash you on the regular but that is false. I recommend and give praise 420% more of the time. Despite my loyalty to apache...who if they saw how I speak so highly of a51 and say get them instead of an AT, would be asking for their discounts back. So piss off, you and your arrogant ways...all these customers are who got you that bank account your are bragging about. Between the tesla comment and that screen shot I have lost a lot(if not all) of respect for you. To each there own, but that is just pompous and arrogant ways of acting in front of people.
You can say you didn't copy apache, but the fact is it's close enough that I feel that way whether you were 100% trying to copy or not. and based on everything, other than your word, I still feel that way, and am not changing that. Your lenses are whatever. Apache has had 50's the whole time and are close enough to you 90's. I didn't say you copied it screw for screw, but it's a 1000X closer to an apache than any other light, even the evo you claimed. I said what I said, you defended your self(debatably)...I still feel the same way and your words are not going to change that. Your PM a while ago that asked about AT spectrum and build so that you could not copy it was nice....then the XGS came out and I(an many others) thought that was the new direction for a51...but now you came right back with an even more similar to apache model.

You are more than welcome to buy as many AT's as you would like. And use them how ever you want. You can use my discount code which I'm sure you were going to. So get it going and give it to who ever you want or consult apache so you both can decide like you said in the first place...otherwise, like I have said numerous times now, I am not apache, so if you are not letting me do the test, then stop asking/talking to me like I'm apache for conformation.

I am done playing nice with you. Do you test and stop calling me out. I DID say a51 copied AT, and am not taking that back.
So prove me wrong or right with the grow off...just shut up and do it already.
I will(with my own money) purchase a51's and do my own test in addition to what ever you concoct, when I get time after this 1000w side by side. This 1000w test is something that will help the community and the "future community" for all LED's. I will get around to it if it needs to happen still. And by the sound of you just talking to me and not AT...I will probably get it done on my own before you get yours done.

And just on the note of my integrity...when AT decides to use multilayer boards and be able to turn the red off...then I will say they got the idea from you. I am not afraid of the truth or afraid to say it.

 

[Bad Karma]

how many panels? or actual watts/sq.ft roughly?

I have never seen leds produce buds this large...especially the older ones.

not trolling here. genuinely interested. I have a lot of hope for led.

My set up for that grow was six 180W ProSource Illuminators in an 8x4 tent.
So just over 1000W of LED in total.
Those lights lack any warm white in their spectrum, so I made up for it with some supplemental CFL.
Multiple LED light sources usually work better to cover a large area.
Also, this gives you the option of an adjustable canopy.
Here are those same Ripped Bubba's at different angles.

 

[Oddjob]

@ bad karma

Dayuum....those some big buds on 1 watters. Did you use Jack's classic for nutes?

 

[Bad Karma]

Did you use Jack's classic for nutes?

Nope, just the General Organics line.

 

[earthling420]

I cannot wait for some these grow offs! Hopefully I remember to even check on it lol

Bad Karma those are so sweet lookin. Kudos. Did you top em? (im still a noob)