yeah, I know rhino skin is watered down as hell, my point was just that they are both the same simple salt and water, protekt is stronger but they are both bottling a simple salt and fucking you, protekt may have an extra 3 cents of potassium silicate in it, that doesn't make it a good deal.
AN or Humbolt Nutrients?
- Thread starter GrowingAllThisLoud
- Start date
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
So basically what you're saying is that AN realizes they can convince customers that it's in their best interest to get ripped off.
I've seen so many people in the hydroponics section boast the "low K" properties of inferior products, and the "Ability to not change pH".
Basically they like the weaker/inferior product because they can waste more money using more, but not worry about it doing anything.
What they all don't realize is that any product based on potassium silicate (basically all of them) will have a silicate level proportional to the potassium level. This means that lowering the potassium levels makes the entire product weaker!
I've seen so many people in the hydroponics section boast the "low K" properties of inferior products, and the "Ability to not change pH".
Basically they like the weaker/inferior product because they can waste more money using more, but not worry about it doing anything.
What they all don't realize is that any product based on potassium silicate (basically all of them) will have a silicate level proportional to the potassium level. This means that lowering the potassium levels makes the entire product weaker!
BROBIE
Well-Known Member
I would say more that they made available a product conducive to the PH-=Perfect line and customer demand. I asked some Guru one time how much silicate is actually needed in inert grow formulas that would equal that supplied by a typical soil. I forgot how much it was but it was VERY small. So maybe the small amount supplied with Rhino is adequate to realize the benefits. But just like AN, lets put a big price tag on it!! IMO Dyna also is taking advantage if you think about it: who needs that much silicate (1/4 tsp/gal). It's overkill. Are they taking advantage too? Magpro WTF? I can go on. All these companies are out for the buck so why stigmatize just AN. rant rant rant
What it should be marketed for is as is a PH-UP , such as how HB uses it. I use it too in veg with F-Pro as that. Marketing. Marketing.
chuck estevez
Well-Known Member
And what product does AN have that I can use from start to finish that comes in 1 bottle?
ReeferReaper420
New Member
Advanced and Humboldt are both shit, IMO.... might as well be using foxfarm lol
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
What, the "give them less" product? You're paying more for less!
Use less of the more concentrated stuff. You don't need to use too much of it. They're the ones who tell you how much to use.
I personally don't even use silicates so I couldn't say how effective they are in small or large dosages. I do know that buying more of the same for less is a better deal though.
Maybe it should be marketed as a pH up, or maybe pH up should be marketed as a potassium supplement.
BROBIE
Well-Known Member
Ok, ill play your game, none. So what. Does dyna have one?
chuck estevez
Well-Known Member
yep, 2 actually. I use foliage pro from start to finish, you could also use grow, you could also use jack's classic. Haven't you been paying attention?
http://www.dyna-gro.com/
StanlySpedowski
Active Member
The biggest problem people have with AN is that they are a rip off, not that they dont contain the same things as other lines. Im sure you can get good results with them, but you can save a lot of money and get the same or better results. This Rhino Skin is a perfect example of that.
Lets do some math here. DG is 7.8% and AN is 0.15%.
You could by 1gal of dyna gro's and make 52gal of AN's version (pretty sure I did the math right, someone correct me if Im wrong) by dilluting it. So that means it would take 4,420 dollars worth of AN's Rhino Skin to get the same amount of potassium silicate as the 50 dollar DG offering.
So yes, the product may be bullshit in each case, but one is clearly a better deal. Why anyone would want to buy from a company that would do that to a cusotmer is beyond me.
I think silica additives are a great additive, that said I 100% agree that protekt is a much better choice, that said they are both a 1 part salt you can buy for $10 a pound, they are both fucking you, you are paying for water and there is only a miniscule difference in actual raw material in the bottle. Neither are a good deal. I asked once before and you didn't answer, are you a dirt grower?
StanlySpedowski
Active Member
Pretty sure you could do that for every fertilizer and get all the individual components for much cheaper so what? One is still a better value and shows DGs idea of value vs AN. Its not like this is the only AN product that is overpriced, the whole lineup is like this.
Yes, I stick to soil using a mixture of DG and Jacks (citrus and all purpose). Are you asking because you keep saying how great AN is in hydro? Can you explain why AN is so much better in hydro than DG? Jacks has a line of hydro ferts now, I'd bet money they outperform AN as well, especially if you factor in cost.
Dont have the dedication or free time to maintain a full hydro set up. I did use an aerocloner for a couple of batches of clones, but found quicker results using a rooting gel in soil so scrapped it.
I have never once said AN is a "great" nute line, The fact that you are a soil grower debating synthetic nutes designed for hydro says everything I don't need to say. Grow hydro and then debate with me. A decent soil and Jack's is all you need, supplementing
Jack's with Dynagro in soil is the very definition of "I'm lost and have no fucking clue." I'm not trying to be a dick but synthetic nutes are not meant for soil, they are meant for a sterile hydro grow, if you use AN or Dynagro in soil you are "a dumb newbie".
and btw, Jack's hydro line sells you calcium nitrate as a raw salt for 4x the cost of you guessed it, calcium nitrate.
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
A commercial soil (roots, ffof, happy frog, etc.) with a complete plant food and clean water is guaranteed gold as long as there is some guidance and restraint with the dosage. What's your beef with that combination?
What's my beef? You can not give me one single logical reason why any synthetic nute will preform better than Jack's or even Miracle grow in a even remotely close to complete soil. Do synthetics work? Sure, they obviously should, endorsing synthetic nutes with a prepared soil spells salesman to me, not needed
StanlySpedowski
Active Member
What the fuck are you talking about. Jacks is a synthetic nutrient too. Only difference is one is in powder and one is liquid.
Edit: Also go look at dynagro webpage. Plenty of pictures of soil based plants. I dont see any mention of hydroponics on there.
If you look product is called Liquid Foliage Pro and mentions how much to add for each watering that you do. Not how much to put in your reservoir.
Why do you think Dynagro cant be used in soil?
yep, you are correct, Jack's is a synthetic raw salt, Dynagro is incomplete liquid synthetic, what's your question again?
StanlySpedowski
Active Member
LOL. Come on man. incomplete liquid synthetic....what on earth does that mean.
They're both synthetic as you put it. Dynagro's own website shows soil based plants and makes little mention of hydroponics. Straight from Dyna-gro:
"Ordinary fertilizers only supply part of the minerals plants need. Every Dyna-Gro complete nutrition formula is blended to supply 16 essential plant mineral elements required by plants for optimum growth in any medium from soil to hydroponics."
But hey Jbone knows better than the people who make the product.
you are right brother, Jack's and Dynagro are equal, I'm with ya.