Guitar Man
Well-Known Member
Thanks!!
Uncle Ben's Topping Technique to Get 2 or 4 Main Colas
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GrowingAllThisLoud
Active Member
Rep+++++. Nice thread!
jartlow
Well-Known Member
Hey there I took a leap of faith and went for it. I had some deficiencies early on so please excuse them.
First attempt at topping and cloning. Took the clipping and dipped it into some clonex, then planted it in a new pot. I made a quick dome for it as well to promote more humidity.
All advice welcome and thanks for the information!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Rollitup mobile app
First attempt at topping and cloning. Took the clipping and dipped it into some clonex, then planted it in a new pot. I made a quick dome for it as well to promote more humidity.
All advice welcome and thanks for the information!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Rollitup mobile app
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Samcro4
Member
Uncle Ben,
Awesome thread. I've read through about 100 pages looking for an answer to my question but found alot of people asking same questions, and no answer to my question.
My clones all have alternating nodes. There are no true node pairs. And I also buried a few nodes into the rock wool. My question has two parts: do you count alternate node sites as individual nodes or do you pair two alternates together and count that as a node pair? Also, what about the buried nodes that we bury to create roots? Those are no longer considered a true node, correct?
Thanks for your time. Are you a professional botanist? Well, you have the knowledge of a professional but is that your career? I've been reading message boards for about 6 months. Reading as much as I can. And you display the most knowledge backed with experienced confidence I've read. Figured you must be a professional.
Awesome thread. I've read through about 100 pages looking for an answer to my question but found alot of people asking same questions, and no answer to my question.
My clones all have alternating nodes. There are no true node pairs. And I also buried a few nodes into the rock wool. My question has two parts: do you count alternate node sites as individual nodes or do you pair two alternates together and count that as a node pair? Also, what about the buried nodes that we bury to create roots? Those are no longer considered a true node, correct?
Thanks for your time. Are you a professional botanist? Well, you have the knowledge of a professional but is that your career? I've been reading message boards for about 6 months. Reading as much as I can. And you display the most knowledge backed with experienced confidence I've read. Figured you must be a professional.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Hi and welcome to the thread. You need to lurk and research using the RIU search option. Please do some homework before posting your question. I've discussed the alternating vs opposing issue until I'm blue in the face, especially early on in this thread and took the time to show a topped seedling in the first post that clearly shows opposing phytolaxxy. For my method to work, the nodes must be opposing. You have node pairs, they just happen to be staggered.
Nodes have cells that are capable of differentiating into root or foliage tissue. If they are underground they'll root first from that point. Reason why I recommend putting at least 2 nodes underground when trying to root a cutting.
I am a commercial grower of a niche crop and vineyard and a hobby gardener of everything you can imagine including avocados, mango, and citrus under glass.
Good luck,
Uncle Ben
ProdigalSun
Well-Known Member
OT. Ben, what's the best way to start some cactus seeds? I picked up one of those seed envelopes from the nursery for a dollar, it's a mixed blend.
Samcro4
Member
Thanks for your time. I did notice the opposing nodes in the pic, and I truly have read 100 pages deep into the thread, I guess I was just hoping for some form of workaround. None the less, sorry for making you repeat yourself.
Ive also read up to about page 103 in your tweaks thread, and the information that you've shared is valuable to me. So even though I did make you repeat yourself, you have made an impact and a difference in a new growers education. I believe that is why you spend the time doing what you do on the forums, so thank you. I don't want you to think I am just shooting questions off w not doing some digging on my own.
Ive learned alot: 3-1-2 grow. 1-3-2 veg. Nitrogen all the way through. Keeping it green until harvest. Nature doesn't flush, so why should we. (It's not a toilet). K does not promote foliage, too much light can bleach out chlorophyl, 20-4 or 18-6 because plants need to respirate, 6-1-2 would be perfect for foliage Maintanance, you planted some potatoes for you and Aunt Benita back in 2010, and most importantly - - Grow for the most amount of foliage you can going into the flowering response. Maintain those leaves in a green and healthy condition up until harvest, even if it means switching fertilizer to a high N value, like a 9-3-6.
and so forth...I just don't want to come off as a guy who didn't want to do some leg work on his own.
That said, I appreciate the "no bs" approach. And I like that basic understanding and common sense is more of a factor than expensive chemistry with a fancy label. Pretty surprised the mj community has not self regulated and put more of these myths and companies out of business.
simisimis
Well-Known Member
Grow and veg is the same. I don't remember UB recommending flowering with 1-3-2.. more like saying 3-1-2(3-1-4) all the way..
Community is the reason those companies exist. It's too difficult for them to reeducate, therefore they just suggest for what people looking for.. people go to store and see bloom food and they think if companies are making it, it must be needed... Some sort of loop here...
Also i think that post and reputation counting system on forum a bit messes things up. People do not want newbie status, they start recommending things. Good intentions, just wrong info :/
Congrats on not falling for every lie you come accross here
Samcro4
Member
i mislabeled. Meant 3-1-2 grow 1-3-2 FLOWER (not veg). But thanks for pointing that out. But it's possible wrote this down wrong in my notes. I'll re-read, and check on 3-1-4 all the way. Not disagreeing with you, just saying I will do the research on the thread to double check myself.Grow and veg is the same. I don't remember UB recommending flowering with 1-3-2.. more like saying 3-1-2(3-1-4) all the way..
Community is the reason those companies exist. It's too difficult for them to reeducate, therefore they just suggest for what people looking for.. people go to store and see bloom food and they think if companies are making it, it must be needed... Some sort of loop here...
Also i think that post and reputation counting system on forum a bit messes things up. People do not want newbie status, they start recommending things. Good intentions, just wrong info :/
Congrats on not falling for every lie you come accross here
And yeah, what company isn't trying to make money? So if that's what is selling, and there is still a demand, then I guess the cycle continues. I guess what surprises me more - but shouldn't - is how the hydro stores push those products. As a noob, I relied alot on the recommendations from my local "pros" at those stores about m setup. At the same time, I did a ton of research and wound up going w the systems I thought suited my space and what I wanted out of it best. Same thing when buying a car, tv, etc....they can give you some good info but you can't blindly believe they have your best interests in mind.
I've been given alot of advice similar to - "you HAVE to buy such and such bloom booster, because it literally doubles my bud production." But I've read the label on some of these so called bloom boosters and some of them have similar macros to the AN 3 part flora bloom I am using, just 1% more nitrogen. (Just using one case as an example). So why would I go out and spend almost 200 dollars on a bottle of that stuff, when I can adjust macros on my own?
Im glad I got the 3 part to begin with. I can tweak my macros to try to meet UBs recommendation with it. Depending on the success I have with it, I might just completely switch to dyna gro. Can't beat those prices. And alot of the "no bs" vets as I like to call you guys recommend dyna gro or jacks, or peters.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Most of the hydro guys know little to nothing about botany, they are salesmen. You're looking for love in all the wrong places.
As you have seen I march to a different drummer.Learn common sense botany, plant culture, then you'll empower yourself to make the right decisions, the correct purchases.
simisimis
Well-Known Member
Well in tweaks and pointers thread UB says do not use bloom food, that is high P food, that is 1-3-2.. dunno about hydro, but soil/soilless does not have P issues other than being locked out.. maybe some exceptional situations i never heard of..
In those threads there were some mail pasted from companies like dynagro saying that they have bloom food cause it's easier to make it rather than reeducate them saying that they do not need it..
I definitely don't, grow food, CaMg supplement and some potassium silicate goes all the way through.. if plant starts misbehaving, i leech the soil, feed again and watch it grow
People should read couple of worthy books and only then go to forums. Then they could see who's talking what. But in this "quick user guide" and "grow cannabis in sixty days" era is not really likely that it is going to happen. Instead of trying to actually understand what we are doing we decide better to chose some side and let that somebody to understand and tell us directions...
Like for example UB topping technique has 500pages... Really???
In those threads there were some mail pasted from companies like dynagro saying that they have bloom food cause it's easier to make it rather than reeducate them saying that they do not need it..
I definitely don't, grow food, CaMg supplement and some potassium silicate goes all the way through.. if plant starts misbehaving, i leech the soil, feed again and watch it grow
People should read couple of worthy books and only then go to forums. Then they could see who's talking what. But in this "quick user guide" and "grow cannabis in sixty days" era is not really likely that it is going to happen. Instead of trying to actually understand what we are doing we decide better to chose some side and let that somebody to understand and tell us directions...
Like for example UB topping technique has 500pages... Really???
Samcro4
Member
Just looked up exact NPK values on the AN Overdrive that was highly recommended. A couple friends who grow swear it doubles their bud production. Say it's dumb to go without it and definitly spend the money. That this stuff literally doubles production. The NPK value is 1-5-4. AN bloom from the 3 part is 0-5-4. So guys are paying 40 dollars a liter for nothing but some fancy words, 1 part nitrogen, and become victims of the placebo effect. It almost 3.5 times the cost for pretty much the same thing. So Advanced Nutrients is charging 3x the cost on a product they basically added nothing to.
I'm very thankful I found you guys when I did. After looking at the ingredients on all of these bloom boosters, bud enhancers, and so forth w the fancy names, it's hard to believe that anybody with even a small amount of experience would fall for this.
I'm very thankful I found you guys when I did. After looking at the ingredients on all of these bloom boosters, bud enhancers, and so forth w the fancy names, it's hard to believe that anybody with even a small amount of experience would fall for this.
kpass3490
Member
Ok guys I read a lot of this page and I'm not trying to piss anybody off with asking repetitive questions, but I have a hard time telling exactly what's going on in a lot of the pictures cuz they're mostly just closeups of the cut and then what happened afterwards. I'm not exactly sure if every spot a branch comes off the main stem is a node or if just the spots where they group together are nodes. So I'm not exactly sure where to cut or if it's too late, my plant has pistils already so wasn't sure and also didn't know if the nodes were too spaced out. Thanks for the help guys.
Guitar Man
Well-Known Member
Kpass, go get your trimmers and cut that baby right at the second node, counting from the top down (4 nodes, if you're counting from the bottom up). As UB says, easy cheesy.
kpass3490
Member
Wow just realized I posted the wrong plant. That's Berry Ryder which is one of my autos. I meant to put up Berry Bomb, my photo that I want to top and that has no pistils here it is. You count from the top down? I thought you counted from the bottom up cuz they say the node where the cottyledon attach doesn't count and the one above is the first true node.
mmjmon
Well-Known Member
whoa....Am I reading it wrong or did you put it down wrong? Cut above the 2nd true node from the bottom for 4 tops... Cut above the 1st true node for 2 tops...
Easy Cheesy
mmjmon
Well-Known Member
I don't have the best eyesight, but your first node looks to be single leaves, and your second looks to be the opposing 3 leaf set above it. I personally would cut it a tad above that node although it looks a little tight. That tight area will just produce more roots after you clean those bottom leaves of the cut top and clone.
As for it being in flower, I don't see it, but like I said, I don't have the best eyesight. You wouldn't normally use UB's method for a flowering plant. It should've already been done and let veg out a bit before flowering. I personally, if it were my plant, would just do it and keep her under the light and hope she does well.
That being said, you could wait til the next run to try it.
Anyone else with some thoughts?
simisimis
Well-Known Member
IMO 3 and 4th node tops look beautiful, way more developed, i would just top above 4th node and trim shoots(not leaves) from bottom two nodes.
Or even do what i recently did here
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/738723-150w-cmh-sativa-garden-12.html#post10281491
Maaanyy ways to skin a cat
EDIT: just realised i was talking when looking at the wrong posted pic u placed before i'd pic 2nd and 3rd node and trim/top the rest
Or even do what i recently did here
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/738723-150w-cmh-sativa-garden-12.html#post10281491
Maaanyy ways to skin a cat
EDIT: just realised i was talking when looking at the wrong posted pic u placed before
i'd pic 2nd and 3rd node and trim/top the rest
Wait, what?
Well-Known Member
Top is the taller, bottom the shorter, at 7 weeks. Special Kush #1 chopped above second node at 4 weeks and 12 and 12 at 5 weeks
Nice colas developing
Nice colas developing
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