ISLAM - just clearing a few things up for ya'll

[Garden Knowm]

Excellent post gk. Gave me a lot of food for thought. I have felt this way myself before then dismissed them once emotions set in again. We all realise exactly what you've said gk, the trouble is just trying to remember it.

you my friend are LOVE


this is a constant struggle... when the war broke out in IRAQ.. the USA was swept with UNCONCIOUSNESS.... it was devastating to the collective thought.. 911 was a challenge that the AMERICAN people did not PASS.. not yet a tleast....so many people forgot the truth and were consumed by EMOTIONS...

TRUTH is not an emotion..

Thank you for putting the icing on the cake!!!!

 

[Garden Knowm]

The worst barbarity of war is that it forces men collectively to commit acts against which individually they would revolt with their whole being.
~Ellen Key

FEAR is -

some men...in order to prevent the supposed intentions of their adversaries, have committed the most enormous cruelties...
~Clearchus, in Xenophon


Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
~Issac Asimov



A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny.
~Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn


It is always easier to fight for one’s principles than to live up to them.
~Alfred Adler


We will not learn how to live together in peace by killing each other's children.
~Jimmy Carter



I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be.
~Thomas Jefferson

That we are to stand by the president, right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
~Theodore Roosevelt


What is more immoral than war?
~Marquis de Sade


Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.
~George Orwell


There is no way to peace. Peace is the way.
~Mahatma Gandhi

...the role of the military is to fight and win war and, therefore, prevent war from happening in the first place.
~George W. Bush


I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent.
~Mahatma Gandhi

 

[skunkushybrid]

Although all excellent quotes and I enjoyed savouring them all, the last one seems sweetest.

 

[FilthyFletch]

I liked mogies bomb the sand thereory.

 

[preoQpydDlusion]

it doesnt matter if the "bad guys" live in the desert, atomic/nuclear weapons mess up the environment. every time a nuclear weapon is set off, the climate is effected all over the world. its said that even the americas have been contaminated with radioactive particles from hiroshima.

the US needs to chill the fuck out, and blood-thristy assholes need a new image. traditionally, anti-war protesters have either been tree-hugging hippies or fanatic picketers. both group accuse warmongers as being evil and power-hungry, giving the idea of war a macho image. but honestly, its just as easy to see that war is silly. soldiers are just confused and mislead individuals that figure killing people would be an easy way to get money and training to start off their careers.

kids watching sunday morning cartoons are growing up thinking that theres always a "bad guy" trying to cause havoc. after looking long enough, they find their scapegoats in the shape of funny-looking, weird-smelling foreigners. the people that u want to bomb arent evil, theyre just us on the other side of the planet. and if u havent figured it out by now, the "bad guy" is you. we all have a bad guy inside us, many of us dont let him come out instead of setting him free in the name of "liberty".

everybody who has been born is exactly the same. we were all nothing before, and we were dropped into this world that we didnt create. people cant be evil, we are all neutral, its what we make. the cultures we live in are living, changing beings that we have almost no control over. physical force should not be a natural way to change thses cultures. u cant shoot a culture, but u can shoot everybody in that society, right? stupid. and all u STUPID FUCKS that support this mindset are pulling the rest of us in with u. i dont want to be sucked dry from taxes for the rest of my life so little timmy can have a fire fight in the desert, but im gonna because too many in this country dont care.

the muslim extremists are decent guys. the reasons they hate us are the same reasons we hate ourselves, the just have the balls to do something about it.

 

[skunkushybrid]

The extremists that fight military targets are decent people. Anyone that condones the murder of innocents, especially children, to my mind are evil.

If the Taliban takes Pakistan this has heavy implications for India, and the rest of the world. Pakistan is a divided country, yet a powerful one. We are not ready to share one mindset while there are two minds. the Taliban must not be allowed to grow. It is a fascist following of the like Hitler could only dream of. dedicated followers to whom their own lives mean nothing.

 

[preoQpydDlusion]

im sure they value their lives as much as the rest of us, they just value their cause more. ill agree that killing innocents is evil, no two ways about it, but its bs to think we're any better. specially the US, if u go by numbers we're the most evil country in human history.

if the taliban gains significant military power, a war might make more sense. the guys are practically using the same caliber bombs as kentucky highschoolers. the 911 attacks took out 3,000 international citizens and that was a bit of a hail-mary, and in this day n age of over-population its not gonna hurt to thin the herd a bit.

our tax money should be spent on more productive projects

 

[skunkushybrid]

im sure they value their lives as much as the rest of us, they just value their cause more. ill agree that killing innocents is evil, no two ways about it, but its bs to think we're any better. specially the US, if u go by numbers we're the most evil country in human history.

if the taliban gains significant military power, a war might make more sense. the guys are practically using the same caliber bombs as kentucky highschoolers. the 911 attacks took out 3,000 international citizens and that was a bit of a hail-mary, and in this day n age of over-population its not gonna hurt to thin the herd a bit.

our tax money should be spent on more productive projects

Sorry to be a pedantic mofo preo, but you can't say they value their lives as much as we do and then contradict yourself straight away by saying, they just value their cause more. How many of us would blow ourselves up to take out 10 of their men? We can't even fight them fairly, we come across a concentration of enemy trooops (say 20 taliban fighters) and we send in air strikes, even if we outnumber them. The difference with us is that we want to be better. The Taliban are evil, women tortured and executed in a football stadium (I've seen the undercover footage taken by a female reporter, very brave woman) for things like looking at another man, or maybe it just looked that way. The women were lined up, about 20 then shot in the back of the head in front of a packed stadium. This footage was taken well before 9/11.

We are not evil, we are fighting to make the world how WE want it. The rest of the world is doing the same. It's not just the US, there is Europe too, even Japan and China are not concerned with war, at least not with us. Even the rest of the muslim world are fighting against the taliban. Yet in Pakistan, a country with, I believe, 5 nuclear weapons... it is heavily divided. If the Taliban get control of Pakistan the world is for a wake-up call.

This fight is not for nothing, we need to move more troops into Pakistan to help defend it.

 

[euthanatos93420]

Yeah..it would just suck if muslims were given pakistan back...I mean its not like the israelites could be allowed to live any fucking where else on this world & take their nukes with em. No they gotta be right fucking there (so the temple can be rebuilt & hence armageddon).

 

[skunkushybrid]

Yeah..it would just suck if muslims were given pakistan back...I mean its not like the israelites could be allowed to live any fucking where else on this world & take their nukes with em. No they gotta be right fucking there (so the temple can be rebuilt & hence armageddon).

What are you talking about? It is the muslims in pakistan that are fighting the taliban. Or are you saying there is only one kind of muslim?

 

[kenneth_342]

The problem with fighting the taliban or any extremist group is the fact that WE DONT KNOW WHO WE ARE FIGHTING. Its not like in ww2 where there were frontlines with men lining up and fighting. The way all these wars are going right now We have no idea who the hell we are fighting. Could be the shop owner on the side of the street or the 12 year old kid on the next block. That is the biggest problem right now. If they were wearing uniforms it would make life alot easier wouldnt it. The wqay it is right now though its either time to get the fuck out and let them sort it out or just go and start shooting. I know either way isnt the best answer. But what can ya do?

 

[preoQpydDlusion]

but you can't say they value their lives as much as we do and then contradict yourself straight away by saying, they just value their cause more.

i dont see the contradiction, most ppl i know will refuse to say that their own life is their greatest concern. whether theyre lying or not can go up for speculation, but saying that the muslim bombers dont value their lives takes away from their beliefs. thats just how bad they want their cause to succeed, and theyd rather die than live in a corrupt world.


i think we should get the hell out. say sorry, thro some money around and get america out of this situation, and if i fry in a few years i hope i get the big blast instead of the fallout.

 

[skunkushybrid]

What greater concern can there be, than ones own life?

Even if you value a loved ones life more than your own this still concerns your own life, and your own internal happiness. To actually die for them is something else entirely.

I do see your point.

Yet, are we to allow this fascist regime to thrive? It will gain strength, and in 20 years when ww3 is upon us we will say that we should have finished the job here.

Hitler was allowed to grow and gain support from across the globe, it would be a folly to allow the Taliban to do the same.

 

[kenneth_342]

Yet, are we to allow this fascist regime to thrive? It will gain strength, and in 20 years when ww3 is upon us we will say that we should have finished the job here.

Hitler was allowed to grow and gain support from across the globe, it would be a folly to allow the Taliban to do the same.

\

K But the real question is what to do about it?

 

[preoQpydDlusion]

the talilban wont be taken out thru military force. these guys are intelligent gorilla fighters and theyre not going to sign a treaty, we're never going to finish the job. theyre alwase going to be a threat as long as we continue to live the way we do.

i do think we should do something to keep ww3 from happening, but this is a great time to let go of our pride and change ourselves. america doesnt have culture, our culture is based on gluttony and excess. we are the devil, thru and thru. i agree with u that ones own life is probly everybodies greatest concern, whether they accept it or not, and this is another point that shows how satanic our culture really is. so if we change our culture, or lack of, we wont be losing anything but pride. stupid, ridiculous pride that only we value. this pride is what has dragged this country (and any other european-minded country) thru so much shit.

so i say, all of the folks out there that say they want to be "good people" should do it instead of living guilt-ridden, watered-down satanic lifestyles. if everybody does that then the taliban wont be such meanies. and if everybody accepts their tru nature and find that they really do want to kill these guys, we should wait for a more productive attack plan instead of playing hide-n-seek in the desert.

 

[skunkushybrid]

I can't agree with that preo'. We live life, it is not a watered down satanic life. I live with morals, these morals might seem slightly satanic to one person yet hardly satanic at all to another.

So, you're suggesting we should live more like the taliban do just to get them to leave us alone? I hope you were stoned when you wrote this. You can't be serious?

 

[preoQpydDlusion]

sorry for being unclear, im referring to laveyan satanism. if ur unfamiliar, self responsibility and hedonism is the name of the game in satanism. its not a matter of opinion, its a fact that western civilization is full of people living flaccidly satanic lives. or in the eyes of a muslim, sinful.

the extremist muslims dont like this type of thing. muslim women dont necessarily cover their faces because their men force them to out of dominance, their faces are covered because the female form arouses carnal desire. in islam sexuality is reserved for intimate relationships, its not exploited to manipulate strangers.

So, you're suggesting we should live more like the taliban do just to get them to leave us alone? I hope you were stoned when you wrote this. You can't be serious?

just to get them to leave us alone? from what u make it seem like, they might have nuclear weapons in a few years and they dont like us being alive, so there seems to be alot to be lost. let go of the pride for a second and consider the facts

-we're never going to defeat these guys, the best thats gonna be done is scare the last hundreds/thousands of them into hiding. theyll pretend to be cool, but while they live amongst the nice muslims theyll still grow in strength.

-people are alwase whining about how shitty our cultures are. "oh my gosh, u see these girls nowadays with their thongs and hot pants?" "look at all these fat, stupid children playing their video games." "america is the most wastefull country on the planet with _blank_ tons of trash thrown out every day..."

we need to make our countries more socially conscious. we need to do this for our own sake and if we keep some crazy fucks from blowing us up in the process, even better. obviously, the extremists have rather extreme views of what is respectable or not, so we probly wont all live up to their standards.

maybe theyll always be a thorn in our side, maybe theyre gonna be content with living like this for ever, but i cant see a society based on strict self-denial lasting very long.

now im not advocating that every country's military should run away, im saying that america's should. we have too much shit going on here to try to play superman once again. in my neighborhood 40 yr old women are pulling double shifts at mcdonalds, doing paper routes because they cant afford their lower-middle class lifestyle. every day more and more americans are truly suffering trying to get by day by day, and our government continues to spend money on war.

today, right now, i dont give a FUCK whats going on in sand-monkey land. they could all die as i speak and it wouldnt effect my daily life in the least. what does effect my life is that im seemingly doomed to live a shitty life because the economy that supports this country has dealt me a bad hand. even worse, i know for a fact that im not alone, millions of people in this country live in similar or worse communities and the government says "tough luck! it wouldnt be fair to help u out, u didnt earn it!" while 5 yr old kids have imported japanese cell phones made of pure platinum, not more than 15 miles away from my house.

 

[skunkushybrid]

My country is prospering. I am too. I am neither fat and I don't mind women walking around in thongs. Arouses carnal desire? So what?

You don't even understand (it seems) what even moderate muslims do to their women. In Pakistan honour killings are frequent. If the man has the suspiscion that his wife is looking at other men in a lustful way he can beat, and in extreme cases kill the woman. The man, after claiming it as an honour killing, will most likely pay a fine. Women are fighting for their lives within this religion, most too afraid to speak out.

One case is of a woman suspected of looking lustfully at another man. Her husband hung her upside down by her feet and beat her with a stick. Then he gouged out both her eyes before pouring petrol on her and setting her on fire. The woman survived and it took her 10 years and the attention of the world to get some justice. Her husband was sentenced to a term in prison. She is now a leading figurehead of the womens movement in Pakistan. How much harder will it be for these women if the Taliban take control?

I can't sympathise with the state of your economy, or the fact that you don't have a platinum mobile (I haven't got one either btw). I can sympathise with a guy that's got no money, but you can't blame your government for this. there are ways to make money preo'. There's no excuse to start living like muslims.

WTF are you talking about preo', seemingly doomed to live a shitty life? What sort of an outlook is that?

 

[kenneth_342]

Ok skunky so how do we get rid of the problem?

 

[skunkushybrid]

We have to keep fighting. Move more troops into pakistan to stop the taliban from gaining ground.