Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Even though the cotelydons provide some food for the embryo, seedlings need plant food from day one. The issue is not if, it's how much.
Last edited:
Newbie Soil Question
- Thread starter Reggie24
- Start date
ru4r34l
Well-Known Member
Wow just wow, don't hang out here to get quality gardening info, but if you do seek my threads..
regards,
dannyboy602
Well-Known Member
The little bit the seedlings need would be provided from the potting soil in the mix. Peat is obviously sterile while the volcanic product perlite only contributes aeration.
dannyboy602
Well-Known Member
I don't advocate the paper towel method either but I also don't trash it. I just think for anyone who has little experience with growing anything that planting a seed is mostly foolproof while putting it in a paper towel can lead to disaster if you take your eye off the project for a few hours. I have killed expensive seeds myself this way so I don't use towels anymore. I tend to implement the easiest methods possible. And for me, it's bottom heat, moist soil and that's it. I don't use sterile mixes either although I tell ppl to use them, I don't have many problems so I germ in the same soil I grow in.
But it's all apples and oranges. There's variations on germinating and growing that guys use that are successful for them so in the end it's to each his own. I've become more tolerant of different methods since joining RIU.
dannyboy602
Well-Known Member
Dats ma job mon: )
crazyhazey
Well-Known Member
if composted it is much better but it will work if its of a more grainy rich texture, as for starting off in MG, its sometimes not the best idea, depends on the line your using. had bad experiences with their slow release shit so i havent bought it since. as for no perlite at the bottom, what the problem with that? too much aeration?
if done in moderation i dont see the problem with misting, ive used a dome on seedlings and had no problem either given i wasn't watering the hell out of them.
crazyhazey
Well-Known Member
yeah i dont really use the domes anymore unless its clones as you said but have before without problems. i do get your point with root systems being messed up, kind of like how if you make clones rely off humidity too much they wont put as much energy towards roots. good point, thanks for the info.
GrowinDad
Well-Known Member
I use the baggies mainly because the RH in my area is low. i have my flower tent in the same room and want it low there.
UB knows his shit and is a huge asset around here so I am not debating. One thing I do believe is that there are a ton of variables in our individual grow environments and each of us is unique in how we can best succeed. So it is all a out finding that magic combo to get started.
I like paper towel for nubes (and me). There is that kill them wi love tendency and peeps get anxious if she doesn't pop fast enough. They are wondering if the seed was bad once under soil. With paper towel you know you put a seed with a taproot in.
I started using MD Seed Starter after trying lots of other stuff and found it best for me for seedlings. It has the rights amount of nutes or close enough, has never burned my babies. I would not use MG for the main grow.
UB knows his shit and is a huge asset around here so I am not debating. One thing I do believe is that there are a ton of variables in our individual grow environments and each of us is unique in how we can best succeed. So it is all a out finding that magic combo to get started.
I like paper towel for nubes (and me). There is that kill them wi love tendency and peeps get anxious if she doesn't pop fast enough. They are wondering if the seed was bad once under soil. With paper towel you know you put a seed with a taproot in.
I started using MD Seed Starter after trying lots of other stuff and found it best for me for seedlings. It has the rights amount of nutes or close enough, has never burned my babies. I would not use MG for the main grow.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Just an observation which again may come across as snarky to those who practice it, but domes and tents are usually used by noobs who do not have enough experience or background when it comes to gardening, any kind of gardening, do not understand what makes a plant tick. If you need a dome to increase RH for a seedling, you need to give it up, at least stop and grab a book on plant culture. That's what a root system is there for, to take care of the water needs of a plant, to maintain proper internal tissue turgor. I could start seedlings outdoor in Arizona where the RH is single digits and do just fine.
Last edited:
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
I have no need for feedback until it pops its head above ground and for me, that success is usually 100%. Again, this technique serves only the grower's psyche who just has to know, who (for whatever reason) just has to get involved rather than backing off and letting the plant do its thing. It does not serve the plant as well as being properly planted 1/2" deep in a tall cup/pot.
UB
Nullis
Moderator
Unless you live in a desert, maybe, you don't need a dome for anything (except rooting cuttings). I've never personally tried to germ seeds in a desert (apparently UB has). But, I have germinated seeds in potting mix with no dome at 30% RH or lower (in winter).
Cannabis is not an aquatic plant. Seeds need a proper medium, warmth and moisture. Quality potting mix should hold plenty of moisture. If you live where it is dry, don't use additional perlite. As noted perlite doesn't retain moisture (it essentially simulates porous pebbles). Use a mix with coco coir instead. I like Sunshine Advanced Mix #4; any quality seed starting mix will do.
Pre-moisten your mix before using if it is dry. Dry potting mix may initially repel water, so this is important. Always water thoroughly after planting seeds. Don't be afraid to water thoroughly when necessary, if you fail to water thoroughly and dry spots develop in the media, roots wont want to grow there. If all you ever do is mist the soil surface, the seed may germinate but will grow very slowly or die. As noted, tap root wants to emerge about 3" into the media from the start... there needs to be moisture there too, and the containers appropriately sized.
I use earthworm castings and kelp meal in my seed starting mix, as well as a small amount of high-P guano (1 tsp per gallon). This will provide for initial nutrition. After sprouting and a week of growth I might start adding fish fertilizer (1 tsp per gallon) and HAs.
I agree with UB and DB that the PT method is not ideal and is over-advocated. Not only are you adding additional fuss to the germination equation; you're depriving the taproot/seedling of things it needs or wants IMMEDIATELY after sprouting including nutrition, microbial symbiosis. Not getting into explaining the soil food web here, but plants on Earth have traditionally grown in soil (well before any fertilizers were ever marketed). It therefore helps to understand soil, how it functions, what else lives in it, etc. Note that most potting mixes are far from soils, but are still made to imitate soil.
Top soil is not good for container growing- it is too dense/heavy and could even contain pests/pathogens.
If you feel you need to use a dome, it needs to be VENTED (even with clones, venting should be introduced after about 3 days). It probably isn't necessary at all for germinating seeds, even in a desert. Time and time again experienced growers have shared the knowledge that domes/high humidity can lead to germination failure (damping off), and time and time again this advice will be IGNORED.
There must be circulation. However, don't have a fan blasting on the pots directly. This will dry the soil surface quicker and could lead to a seed embryo drying out before it has a chance to sprout.
Cannabis is not an aquatic plant. Seeds need a proper medium, warmth and moisture. Quality potting mix should hold plenty of moisture. If you live where it is dry, don't use additional perlite. As noted perlite doesn't retain moisture (it essentially simulates porous pebbles). Use a mix with coco coir instead. I like Sunshine Advanced Mix #4; any quality seed starting mix will do.
Pre-moisten your mix before using if it is dry. Dry potting mix may initially repel water, so this is important. Always water thoroughly after planting seeds. Don't be afraid to water thoroughly when necessary, if you fail to water thoroughly and dry spots develop in the media, roots wont want to grow there. If all you ever do is mist the soil surface, the seed may germinate but will grow very slowly or die. As noted, tap root wants to emerge about 3" into the media from the start... there needs to be moisture there too, and the containers appropriately sized.
I use earthworm castings and kelp meal in my seed starting mix, as well as a small amount of high-P guano (1 tsp per gallon). This will provide for initial nutrition. After sprouting and a week of growth I might start adding fish fertilizer (1 tsp per gallon) and HAs.
I agree with UB and DB that the PT method is not ideal and is over-advocated. Not only are you adding additional fuss to the germination equation; you're depriving the taproot/seedling of things it needs or wants IMMEDIATELY after sprouting including nutrition, microbial symbiosis. Not getting into explaining the soil food web here, but plants on Earth have traditionally grown in soil (well before any fertilizers were ever marketed). It therefore helps to understand soil, how it functions, what else lives in it, etc. Note that most potting mixes are far from soils, but are still made to imitate soil.
Top soil is not good for container growing- it is too dense/heavy and could even contain pests/pathogens.
If you feel you need to use a dome, it needs to be VENTED (even with clones, venting should be introduced after about 3 days). It probably isn't necessary at all for germinating seeds, even in a desert. Time and time again experienced growers have shared the knowledge that domes/high humidity can lead to germination failure (damping off), and time and time again this advice will be IGNORED.
There must be circulation. However, don't have a fan blasting on the pots directly. This will dry the soil surface quicker and could lead to a seed embryo drying out before it has a chance to sprout.
Last edited:
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
The embryo's radicle is at least 4" long as it pops the soil surface. If the pot is at least 4" tall, it has access to plenty of moisture. If you start with a properly hydrated seed using decent moist potting soil then that's all you need to get a healthy vigorous seedling up and running.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
I hear that often, and that is not wise advice. Seedlings need 16 essential elements from day one. That can be from organics like the meals. Here's an example of providing proper nutrition from day one - https://www.rollitup.org/t/spin-out-for-chemical-root-pruning.9114/
What pelletized "mixes" have you used?
One book will be his short cut to success precluding learning from failures "as you go" - http://www.amazon.com/Marijuana-Growers-Insiders-Guide-Frank/dp/0929349008
I can't count on my fingers and toes how many times I've seen noobs piss off $2,000 on products and cannabis specific crap only to fail because they've never grown a damn thing before and don't know or care to learn what makes a plant tick first.
dannyboy602
Well-Known Member
The link u provided didn't have much to do with plant nutrition. It was an experiment on chemical root pruning. Meals are hot as a rule. I don't use them anymore. Especially for young seedlings. It's a recipe for disaster. That's the bad advice.
I don't use pelletized mixes. I want control over fertilizing. A woodies grower I use in landscaping told me he found Osmocote will dump all its load in temps above 90. I think other pelletized ferts probably do the same thing.
Yeah Mel and Frank are great reading but I advocate learn by doing. Follow the advice of an old timer or a working pro like Subcool and you can't go wrong. It's not like these kids plan on starting a perennial nursery. They only want to be efficient at one species, hardly worth becoming a master gardener over.
dannyboy602
Well-Known Member
Haha sounds like me yes. Barney Fife is one cool dude. Never liked Andy Griffith.