Watering down genetics

[kgp]

Hey all. This has always been on my mind. I was hoping we could have a discussion or debate on whats happening to our beautiful strains.

I know some times you hit a home run and a cross just clicks. But many time not.

Blueberry for example. Dj short worked with it for years. Now we see new "breeder's" diluting the genes by crossing blue cheese, blue og, blueberry haze...

How many of these crosses are going to be better than the original?

What if consumers want blueberry? OG? Haze?

To me anyone can cross two plants. How many breeders can offer pure (or the purist form) genetics?

What happened to the dj shorts of the community?

I look at attitude and see 500 breeders trying to make an unheard of cross. Why?

The more we water down genetics the more unstable and rare quality strains will become.

What happened to solid crosses like ak47? Only one breeder out of how many?

I just get sick of seeing it. How many can actually say blue og is better than real blueberry, or real og?

What about haze? Is there such a thing anymore?

Why breed two plants just because. Why not try to find ones that will click or complement each other.

Opinions please. Rant over.

 

[vostok]

You may well have a point, with cannabis becoming legal in many states all 'we' need now is the Bill Gates of cannabis, to move in and take over, with his 'ideal' strain and loads of cash to buy peoples silence ..that ideal strain will be 30+%THC, possible an auto flower, grow anywhere with very little light, and totally genetically false.

Although you can't patent or copyright a plant, you may patent a STRAIN. and many breeders are trying that now, weather it stands up in court has yet to be tested.

The point is many many strains today are 5 times stronger than those of the 1960-1970s, although I look back with fond memories of those great times and great smoke, they were but an amateurish methods in comparison of todays grows, to the point of the pot smokers grand children are now trying to grow under a couple of cfl's.

Of the immediate future for continued legislation of cannabis, it don't look to good with concern over the hash oil(BHO) may well bring all this down?

always keep a few seed handy just in case

 

[TonightYou]

This should be an interesting conversation! I'm sort of in agreement with you, which is why I'm trying out some IBL such as Maple Leaf Indica, Bangi Haze, and China Yunan. I think the orgy of polyhybrids is the new norm due to the time needed to make a consistent, quality strain. I also think part of the problem is everybody chasing the flavor of the week. Instead of breeding for a true, reliable, bean line, it's easier to just self or chuck random pollen. Not to say it is the worst thing, as interesting results can occur, but I think the demand from growers to chase that "clone only" in bean form is mostly responsible and breeders can easily make a quick buck off such a trend.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I think it's the same as dogs or horses, or anything bred for particular purposes. Purebred strains are hard to find, simply because humans have been tinkering with them for years. Not sure i agree with the fact that they are "watered" down, evolution, i think, prevents that from happening, unless you are crossing with Swedish hemp or something. Potency doesn't decrease with breeding.
Plus i think when they do cross two strains, who knows the outcome? So when you ask "why breed two plants, just because?" My answer would be, because when you do cross something, the result can sometimes exceed the parents. Not to mention, some people are just into the newest/greatest thing, i know i have that bug a lil. Constantly trying to find the perfect strain.
I've done some pollen sprinkling in my days, and the hybrids are totally unique, sometimes you get lucky.
Also, growing herb is a hobby to most, and tinkering with hobbies is human nature.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

plus, if we followed that logic, we'd never have Tiger Woods.
Ok sorry, couldn't resist.
On a serious note, though, my dog is a pitbull, they didn't have those thousands of years ago, most dogs are hybrids, and the ones that aren't are actually somewhat weaker genetically. probably not the best analogy. But it's all i got.
Honestly, the proliferation of breeding, i don't view as a bad thing, just my opinion. Think of all the amazing hybrids that we'd never have otherwise.
Besides, after all, some of those strains you mentioned aren't pure at all. Djs blueberry is a hybrid... So is the OG...

 

[kgp]

I think the demand from growers to chase that "clone only" in bean form is mostly responsible and breeders can easily make a quick buck off such a trend.

Exactly!

 

[Amos Otis]

NIce rant...and I can dig and respect where you're coming from, kgp.

My honest answer, is that preserving strains is of no concern of mine. After a few years of learning enough skills to produce consistent good smoke, I'm happy to ride the coattails of whatever breeder or company produced the smokes that I enjoy. I'm savvy enough now to know who I trust and who to avoid, so I just pop, run, smoke and enjoy.

While many good folk are tracking down lines and isolating traits, I read descriptions and reports, then throw those guys a few dollars to try out their hard work. That's why I pay them.

I rolled two joints this morning of everything that's accumulated on the tray all week. Probably a mix of at least 8 varieties. Splendid taste and high....and I couldn't begin to tell you what the dominant genetics are.

 

[kgp]

plus, if we followed that logic, we'd never have Tiger Woods.
Ok sorry, couldn't resist.
On a serious note, though, my dog is a pitbull, they didn't have those thousands of years ago, most dogs are hybrids, and the ones that aren't are actually somewhat weaker genetically. probably not the best analogy. But it's all i got.
Honestly, the proliferation of breeding, i don't view as a bad thing, just my opinion. Think of all the amazing hybrids that we'd never have otherwise.
Besides, after all, some of those strains you mentioned aren't pure at all. Djs blueberry is a hybrid... So is the OG...

I understand. Blueberry is a hybrid, but my point is it was worked and stabilized.

Just like the dogs you referenced. Many years and generations made the breed standards what they are today.

If you find a cross that works for you, why not try to lock down specific traits that you like. F2, f3 back cross. Im not saying crosses are bad.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I understand. Blueberry is a hybrid, but my point is it was worked and stabilized.

Just like the dogs you referenced. Many years and generations made the breed standards what they are today.

If you find a cross that works for you, why not try to lock down specific traits that you like. F2, f3 back cross. Im not saying crosses are bad.

i gotcha, i think i may have misunderstood your initial point.
Now that i understand you more clearly, i tend to agree with you. Unstabilized strains just cause headaches mostly, one of the reasons i tried Sannie's Seeds, because he does the hard work, and understands that strains need stability and uniformity. Not that he doesn't do a bunch of crosses as well, but you gotta appreciate what he's done, plus it's kinda cool to not have a middle man...

 

[gabechihua]

I crossed a Blueberry with Super Haze back in 06, actually liked it quite a bit better than straight Blueberry. Didn't water down the Blueberry at all, the two strains compliment each other quite nicely. I do have a tendency to avoid hybrids of elite clone only strains though. I always feel like I'm going to get a cheap imitation of the original. Personally I really don't have a problem with unstable and polyhybrid strains either. Pheno hunting can be kind of fun.

 

[kgp]

I crossed a Blueberry with Super Haze back in 06, actually liked it quite a bit better than straight Blueberry. Didn't water down the Blueberry at all, the two strains compliment each other quite nicely. I do have a tendency to avoid hybrids of elite clone only strains though. I always feel like I'm going to get a cheap imitation of the original. Personally I really don't have a problem with unstable and polyhybrid strains either. Pheno hunting can be kind of fun.

Thanks for posting. I can see where a blueberry haze could be nice.

Unfortunately, I no longer enjoy pheno hunting and would love to get a plant from a breeders description that was the norm and not the exception. Only hunt to find the best of the bunch.

 

[Amos Otis]

Thanks for posting. I can see where a blueberry haze could be nice.

Unfortunately, I no longer enjoy pheno hunting and would love to get a plant from a breeders description that was the norm and not the exception. Only hunt to find the best of the bunch.

If you only grow one of everything - say a bloom tent/closet of 6 unrelated girls - then technically you can randomly determine the best of the room as opposed to best of a pack - which is my version of 'smoke hunting'. A lot less effort, and I'm always intrigued watching the different strains compete. As much as I've liked certain strains, the period when I ran 2 moms and clones for a year taught me to never minimize the pleasures of variety.

BTW - forgive me if I'm not spot on topic. I've not seen much of interest on RIU for a few days, and just looking to riff a bit w/ non trolls.

 

[homebrewer]

We can bitch about the chuckers all day long but who in this thread is actually going to spend the next few years creating something of true breeding value? Seriously fellas, it starts with us. We need to get to work if we don't like the current state of the seed market.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

Inbred lines like bueberry often are better in crosses. Inbred lines have many issues that most growers do not find to be favorable.

Heterosis brings out the best traits in both plants that were crossed. Just crossing polyhybrids of course won't be stable or necessarily do this.

 

[trontreez]

The point is many many strains today are 5 times stronger than those of the 1960-1970s,

This is one of the biggest myths going around. Samples seized from Thailand in 1975 were found to range from 3.8 - 17%, with an average of 11% THC of all samples seized.

Weed today is not really much stronger than good Thai from the 70's. Just another myth the government likes to propagate.

 

[rdo420]

I agree. My biggest ''peeve'' with growing is when you love the breeders description and grow um out and absolutely none match the description.

 

[kmog33]

I like trying new strains so i do like hybrids and innovation of new strains. I do however feel that in order for these breeders to call their beans new strains they should have to be stabilized down to 1 or 2 phenos that come out, but definitely uniformity should be demanded. Especially if your going to charge 15 to 20 bucks a seed. Its bs but as long as people buy them up f1s are easier and less time consuming to produce than stabilized 7+ generation seeds.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Rollitup mobile app

 

[420Dust]

Hybrid vigor usually wins. It would be nice to be able to find some of the original strains from years gone by that would produce a predictable trait. I'm 50 50 on this subject because I love crossing different strains especially the newer autos, yet sometimes find myself wishing I had some of the stuff that totally made me laugh for hours back in the eighties.

 

[haulinbass]

Yo brah im gunna cross some og(cause its all the same) then im gonna breed that bitch to chemdawg or a chem poly hybrid. It will be super original steezy "dank"....... yeah i cant say this shit with a straight face but if i did and named shit after stoner celebrities id make bank..... you wanna smoke michael ceras butthole?

 

[kindnug]

When your done smoking micheal ceras butthole, you'll have a sh*t-eating grin...