Apache AT600 led vs 1000w HPS Blue Dream Grow

[gk skunky]

H, C, N, O -four most common elements of life I believe

Nice! I'll give ya that. More fitting for sure than nutrient levels. But hey don't go and forget get our homie phosphorus. He's essential for life(edit: well as far as what we know as life here on earth so far). Kinda need those for the phosphodiester bonds that make up the "backbone" of nucleic acids. Damn cursed RNA and DNA. LOL

Alright nerd mode off.

 

[bilbo182]

I have to admit , i had them same panels for a short time lol...so fast i didn't even post about them. They vegged decent but even under 20/4 lighting schedule my plants were getting stretchy....maybe they are good for flowering specifically tho never used them for that. I had sold them right back on ebay where i got them. The one thing i did like was they can be linked together...

I wish I had them last grow then, fricking clones were a bunch of arse so I could have done with the stretching, at least I might have got the 8" bonsai plant to grow another inch or too (root damage in rockwool cube as it turns out after post mortem).

I'd have managed an Apache or other top brand name if there was anywhere to buy them in the UK that didn't involve a pleasant chat with with Customs and Excise about how much import duty I owed them and why I wanted a grow light anyway! GG is right, diy might be the way to go over here!

 

[PurpleBuz]

for the grower that can not see a full switch over(me),that hid/led hood is a must have.....tell me when & where to get.
that's really what i been looking for.

Personally I don't think its a good idea to combine led and hid in the same hood.
The heat from the HID will require some clever engineering to avoid detrimentally effecting the LED.

That doesn't mean I don't think the combo of HID and LED is not a good way to go, just that they would be better as separate units, with spacing and spectrum optimized for the grow layout

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Personally I don't think its a good idea to combine led and hid in the same hood.
The heat from the HID will require some clever engineering to avoid detrimentally effecting the HID.

That doesn't mean I don't think the combo of HID and LED is not a good way to go, just that they would be better as separate units, with spacing and spectrum optimized for the grow layout

E shine made a unit with a 70w hps bulb in the center surrounded by 150w of leds in the same fixture years ago. Surprisingly it didn't sell well and got discontinued quickly

led pontoons are nothing new as the boys at indagro will tell you......lol

 

[Greengenes707]

E shine made a unit with a 70w hps bulb in the center surrounded by 150w of leds in the same fixture years ago. Surprisingly it didn't sell well and got discontinued quickly

led pontoons are nothing new as the boys at indagro will tell you......lol

But not everyone has an IG. But 95% have hid's. And the pontoon won't fit over a decent hid hood. Or an at600for that matter even with the rail rest off...tried it.

So a fit all pontoon for supplemental hid where it's lacking most was where my head was at. A lot bigger target market.

 

[chazbolin]

Hey G. What I saw at LightFair was nothing more than hundreds (literally) of 'me too' LED companies all doing some small variation on a theme or espousing (incessantly) their virtues based on how they were less expensive than the competitors. The days of HID are numbered. Sure building a pontoon that would bolt to an HID hood would make a pile of beans but if it means folks would delay getting into a more energy efficient technology and perhaps extend the demand for HID I would pass. Which is what I did.

Or an at600for that matter even with the rail rest off...tried it.

AT already runs 660's at light on and they easily incorporate some 730's to run on batteries at lights out. Actually I'm kind of surprised that any LED grow light companies haven't already done this.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

But not everyone has an IG. But 95% have hid's. And the pontoon won't fit over a decent hid hood. Or an at600for that matter even with the rail rest off...tried it.

So a fit all pontoon for supplemental hid where it's lacking most was where my head was at. A lot bigger target market.

I know what you meant, just saying that their variations of it already out for some time now, doubt it's even patentable now? Wouldn't IG have filed already at this point if possible?
Anyways I wouldn't want leds near a hot source and resting on aluminum reflectors which conduct heat very well.....idk

Hey G. What I saw at LightFair was nothing more than hundreds (literally) of 'me too' LED companies all doing some small variation on a theme or espousing (incessantly) their virtues based on how they were less expensive than the competitors. The days of HID are numbered. Sure building a pontoon that would bolt to an HID hood would make a pile of beans but if it means folks would delay getting into a more energy efficient technology and perhaps extend the demand for HID I would pass. Which is what I did.



AT already runs 660's at light on and they easily incorporate some 730's to run on batteries at lights out. Actually I'm kind of surprised that any LED grow light companies haven't already done this.

No 660 nm in any AT products
I

 

[captainmorgan]

No 660 nm in any AT productsI

There's probably some in their whites depending how warm of a white they use and you don't need a lot for just the trigger.

 

[genuity]

But not everyone has an IG. But 95% have hid's. And the pontoon won't fit over a decent hid hood. Or an at600for that matter even with the rail rest off...tried it.

So a fit all pontoon for supplemental hid where it's lacking most was where my head was at. A lot bigger target market.

well if you ever put one together,id sure use it...

i see no reason for it not to work,all i want is more blue/white in 12/12...and adding 400 watts of mh works,but i know i can do it for less.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

There's probably some in their whites depending how warm of a white they use and you don't need a lot for just the trigger.

Not at the 300 lm/watt(ha) GG is claiming they use......that's a cool white emitter all day

So still nada on the 660 nm friend.....

Btw their is some more fuzzy math going on in here with those claimed #, AT 600 drawing 760 watts with 300 lm/per watt chips getting a little over 52000 lumens per fixture(according to the spec sheet included in the box for fucks sake) is almost obnoxiously incorrect..... hopefully someone can clear this up for me

Alright back to my drinks, be safe fellas

 

[Greengenes707]

They use CW...the most efficient after all. I have tried to push WW on them so hard it's not even funny. As long as they are enhancing with red, CW will probably be the only thing you see from them. But you never know if he watches my cobs do work with just WW...self five!

I posted that AT spec sheet well before the release of the new AT line and was bitching about it already.
Since the at600 was originally the at480(using the original chips...nichia 183's)...I think that much of the spec sheet was not updated to the new chips(219). Not excuse for it, specially of their prestige...but that is where I think all these little inconstancies come from. AT told me that my light(proto) only has the 260lm bin in it...as in 260lm per 700ma(2watts). But when I get another(hint hint), it will be the production with the top bin.

This is a spectoradiometer reading I did on my own of my proto at600...a favor from a friend that let me play a little.
Look at at the breakdown...pretty stellar imo. plants said so too The grades next to the % are compared to the sun...every artificial light gets failing grades that I saw...no cmh tested though.

 

[captainmorgan]

Not at the 300 lm/watt(ha) GG is claiming they use......that's a cool white emitter all day

So still nada on the 660 nm friend.....

Not sure which LED's AT uses but here is a Cree XM-L2 6500k white and it has 660 nm.
Should be plenty to switch the phytochrome state,10 watts of 730 nm can cover a 8'x8' area to trigger it.

 

[Jbone77]

Very interesting and over due stuff chaz.

Don't people go taking this the wrong way but...Many of us have gone into detail about certain things...then later they show up nearly word for word/pic for pic by some company...I think RIU has a lot bigger influence on the community as a whole than we think. And for good reason...there isn't a site or group of people ever as knowledgeable and educated as the people who have congregated here. I am very proud to hang out "virtually" with everyone.

The "fit all supplemental pontoons" were my idea 9 months ago...even posted the design on here...then took it down a few days later just because I didn't want anyone taking it...used to even put "™®" after my post for fun...but seriously should have filled it. I have one blue and one uvb design. Started with the uvb...but in my expeience good blue spectrum representation will increase the resin and trichomes as much as uvb...but without the negatives(human and plant).
Hps is missing blue and to do it with HID tech, losses it's output dominance...hence the addition of even more efficient than hps, leds to do the blue work...red is no really necessary imo because even though hps is mostly yellow...it plays along and effects as if red(very generally speaking).

I would be more than honored if I could have any input/take part in that committee...and I know AT would have some great input from robert. Keep me in the loop.


You with a different light at one point...no, never. haha.


The double ended phillips bulbs(gavita's) are the shit when it comes to HID(hps, mh, cmh). They put out more light even watt afor watt but can safely go to 1150w with no degradation effects. Their heat is the biggest issue, but if you are ready for it, they will do damage. Plus no they make AC hoods for them so it very possible to run them in smaller situations...but they sure were not designed for small...they are meant for the fullest of sized gardens. But they are killer for sure.


They weren't there so I would imagine no.
I have never seen a51 at any show/event
AT only goes to a few a year and that wasn't one of them. Not sure why...just is what it is.

I know they werent there, my point was going to simply be this, if Hortilux, Phillips, Gravita Apache, A51 etc were all absent, then it doesnt sound like it was too good of a show as far as indoor grow lighting goes. Posts like that give me a chuckle

 

[PSUAGRO.]

They use CW...the most efficient after all. I have tried to push WW on them so hard it's not even funny. As long as they are enhancing with red, CW will probably be the only thing you see from them. But you never know if he watches my cobs do work with just WW...self five!

I posted that AT spec sheet well before the release of the new AT line and was bitching about it already.
Since the at600 was originally the at480(using the original chips...nichia 183's)...I think that much of the spec sheet was not updated to the new chips(219). Not excuse for it, specially of their prestige...but that is where I think all these little inconstancies come from. AT told me that my light(proto) only has the 260lm bin in it...as in 260lm per 700ma(2watts). But when I get another(hint hint), it will be the production with the top bin.

This is a spectoradiometer reading I did on my own of my proto at600...a favor from a friend that let me play a little.
Look at at the breakdown...pretty stellar imo. plants said so too The grades next to the % are compared to the sun...every artificial light gets failing grades that I saw...no cmh tested though.
View attachment 3172781

Hey thanks for the break down GG!!!!.............yeah I don't get these companies sometimes, that leaflet is just unnecessary if it's soooo outdated......and then giving it to oneshot is just plain stupid IMO

very surprised at the 400-500nm readings you got.............it's low for CW??IDK........ aaahhhh 600-700nm is where the magic happens under that beautiful outdoor star......big surprise

be safe friend

 

[chazbolin]

I know they werent there, my point was going to simply be this, if Hortilux, Phillips, Gravita Apache, A51 etc were all absent, then it doesnt sound like it was too good of a show as far as indoor grow lighting goes. Posts like that give me a chuckle

Phillips and Eye did exhibit but unless you asked about their horticulture lamps they were not promoting them.

http://www.lightfair.com/lightfair/V40/exhibitor_list/displayEx.cvn?exbid=24917&printfr=true&popup=1
http://www.lightfair.com/lightfair/V40/exhibitor_list/displayEx.cvn?exbid=24873&printfr=true&popup=1

Here is the complete exhibitor list:

http://www.lightfair.com/lightfair/V40/exhibitor_list/exnamelist.cvn?sort_letter=&start=1&catID=0&exhibLineID=0&pav=0&view_all=1&exhibName=&lineName=&city=&zip=&state=&country=&cat=&product=&contact=

Lightfair is easily the largest convention for area lighting manufacturers. If you happen to be an HID lamp manufacturer and you had an exhibit you would have been lost in a sea of LED manufacturers. How this industry wide trend to LED effects grow light technology remains to be seen but my guess is that as indoor commercial cultivation increases, energy prices go up and HID loses market share more and more of these companies will see the need to add LED grow lights to their product lines. This will likely lead to a decrease in LED grow lighting prices but it will also be imperative that in the future, pioneer companies like AT and A51 seriously consider exhibiting at these shows so as they can educate those in attendance as to what makes LED grow lights so different than an LED area light.

If one were to consider how the area and grow light industries will look in the future you only have to take a look at the guy in the beard. That's a hard to recognize with his beard trimmed Aubrey Bradley of OG Hoods with Barron Lighting Group, an area lighting company who are now getting into grow lights as a new co-brand they call Indoor Grow Science. Aubrey and Barrons had one of the busier booths I had seen and as you can tell by this video it was an entirely different demographic than that of a cannabis cup or Max Yield attendee who were showing interest in these products.

 

[Greengenes707]

Look what I got...

Cree cxa3070 AB's

I will call it project cowboy...the apache killer

 

[spazatak]

take plenty of photos of your wiring... drivers, fans that sort of thing....


help us dunces out a bit...

 

[epicfail]

Look what I got...

GG do you got a link to the source of these AB's?

 

[Hgrow]

take plenty of photos of your wiring... drivers, fans that sort of thing....


help us dunces out a bit...

What do you want those photos for ?

 

[spazatak]

What do you want those photos for ?

why do you give a fuck.... crawled back out from under your bridge I see cammie