hey I've been looking at how to make hash oil/ shatter. all of the tutorials I've found list the steps. but I was wondering if anyone knew what the chemical reaction was (what the steps actually accomplish chemically) or a place i could find that info, just curious. thanks in advance.
Chemical Reaction taking place?
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qwizoking
Well-Known Member
I mean theoretically there will always be some sort of slight reaction with everything. To a small extent ester formation if using an alcohol to extract etc is possible.
But I feel that's not really your question
When the solvent hits the trichomes it simply dissolves into solution, like sugar in hot water. Its a physical process that leaves nothing changed once the solvent has evaporated
If your referring to altering consistencies In your finished product, that for the most part is also not a chem reaction
But I feel that's not really your question
When the solvent hits the trichomes it simply dissolves into solution, like sugar in hot water. Its a physical process that leaves nothing changed once the solvent has evaporated
If your referring to altering consistencies In your finished product, that for the most part is also not a chem reaction
I'm interested in what is taking place, so for instance what does using butane do, is it the same process if using say CO2 then what is taking place when placing the butane/ THC mixture in warm water, what dose adding alcohol do. in short what is the reason for doing the steps while there is some explanation in the tutorials they don't go into to much depth. thanks qwizoking
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
Well if I'm understanding..
Your referring to placing the THC/butane wash in a warm water bath to evaporate the solvent. We need to melt the oil so a nasty film doesn't develop preventing the gases from
escaping. This is mainly attributed to butanes non polar properties picking up more fats and waxes. Why its much easier to purge other extracts.
When adding alcohol, well if you mean winterizing, lookat it kind of like an a/b extract. You have 2 ends of the spectrum you can drop out. If you extracted with butane, saturating a significantly more polar ethanol and chilling it, will drop out a portion of non polar compounds like heavier fats and waxs.
Your referring to placing the THC/butane wash in a warm water bath to evaporate the solvent. We need to melt the oil so a nasty film doesn't develop preventing the gases from
escaping. This is mainly attributed to butanes non polar properties picking up more fats and waxes. Why its much easier to purge other extracts.
When adding alcohol, well if you mean winterizing, lookat it kind of like an a/b extract. You have 2 ends of the spectrum you can drop out. If you extracted with butane, saturating a significantly more polar ethanol and chilling it, will drop out a portion of non polar compounds like heavier fats and waxs.
jewgrow
Well-Known Member
Well heres a run down of CHM 101....
this technically is a chemical reaction, both butane gas, and the psychoactive cannabiniods are chemicals.
That is however besides the point
There are two types of extractions and the one in question is called a solid phase extraction. With this type of extraction, the solvent is being used to strip away a certain compound based on their chemical propertities. In other words, like dissolves like.
The butane (which is a non-polar compound) will "stay" and "stick" with the non-polar components of the plant. Most of the non-polar components include all the psychoactive components that make up our "high" , waxes and some other impurities. Once this mixture of butane and other compoents enter the pyrex pan, mother nature takes over and butane beigns to boil once exposed to the ambient temperature.
What does not boil away is the psychoactive cannabinoids and other parts extracted from the plant via the butane.
It's a relatively mundane method to be quite honest. Very easy, quick and effective.
Blunter the kid
Well-Known Member
Butane dissolving trichomes isn't a chemical reaction, because well... There's no literal reaction taking place, one just dissolves into the other because as you said like dissolves like.
I don't get what you mean when you say it's a mundane extraction, none of the methods are fun or exciting because their products are all predictable.
jewgrow
Well-Known Member
Hey guy, maybe I wasn't 100% clear on what I was trying to get across.
What I'm trying to say is that there is a extraction taking place
More specifically distillation
The solute (our various cannabinoids, waxes and fats), are dissolved in our solvent (butane).
From there our much more volatile solute is removed because it's boiling temperature is much lower than ambient temperature, leaving very minute trace amounts of butane.
From there I personally heat purge at around 110-115 degrees C and then vac purge at 100-110 C
What I'm trying to say is that there is a extraction taking place
More specifically distillation
The solute (our various cannabinoids, waxes and fats), are dissolved in our solvent (butane).
From there our much more volatile solute is removed because it's boiling temperature is much lower than ambient temperature, leaving very minute trace amounts of butane.
From there I personally heat purge at around 110-115 degrees C and then vac purge at 100-110 C
JointOperation
Well-Known Member
the solvent strips the resin , and depending on the solvent.. it can strip other things.. just kinda like how some things dissolve in water.. well trichome heads dissolve with specific Solvents.. there really is no chemical reaction until you get to purging..
basicly.. u are just removing the medicine from the plant matter.. allows you to smoke more medicine and less plant matter. the plant matter is the only part of smoking.. thats bad for you.. so smoking hashoil. if properly made and purged.. and used good clean material.. then its going to be better lung wise.. then having to smoke a QP of weed.. wen u can smoke 1 oz of oil.
basicly.. u are just removing the medicine from the plant matter.. allows you to smoke more medicine and less plant matter. the plant matter is the only part of smoking.. thats bad for you.. so smoking hashoil. if properly made and purged.. and used good clean material.. then its going to be better lung wise.. then having to smoke a QP of weed.. wen u can smoke 1 oz of oil.
Blunter the kid
Well-Known Member
http://www.vernier.com/experiments/chem-o/5/separation_of_organic_compounds_by_acid-base_extraction_techniques/
I'm thinking what may work is if you dissolve your THCA in a solvent immiscible in water (e.g. Hexane, Ether, or Chloroform) and extract the mixture with sodium hydroxide to precipitate the carboxylic acid from the solution as a sodium carboxylate salt which is insoluble in the organic layer containing your solvent and cannabinoids.A commonly used method of separating a mixture of organic compounds is known as liquid-liquid extraction. Most reactions of organic compounds require extraction at some stage of product purification. In this experiment you will use extraction techniques to separate a mixture of an organic acid, a base, and a neutral compound.
Organic acids and bases can be separated from each other and from neutral compounds by extraction using aqueous solutions of different pH values. Most organic carboxylic acids are insoluble or slightly soluble in water, but these compounds are highly soluble in dilute aqueous sodium hydroxide because the acid is deprotonated by the base producing the sodium carboxylate salt.
The carboxylic acid can be selectively isolated by dissolving the mixture in an organic solvent that is immiscible with water, and then extracting the solution with sodium hydroxide. The basic aqueous solution containing the carboxylate salt is acidified, causing the sodium carboxylate salt to convert back to the carboxylic acid, which is not water soluble. The acid will precipitate from the solution, as shown here.
I wouldn't be able to tell you whether that works or not because I'm not sure if the carboxyl group is actually gonna break off THCA like it does when you heat the solution, it's much easier to decarboxylate by refluxing a solution of ethanol and extract under a vacuum for a few days, because decarboxylation does occur at lower temperatures it's just very slow unless you do something to speed it up such as add heat or apply negative pressure to the solution until it starts to boil, then stop the pump and let it reflux under vacuum for a few hours.
I think there's a decarboxylation chart somewhere on these forums, I'll try and pull it up.
I forgot to add that you should calculate your temperatures and vacuum so that your rate of decarboxylation is somewhat predictable because at such low temperatures your gonna wanna compensate for the heat that you would need with vacuum to make the liquid boil at that lower pressure, I'm sure you already fully understand the concepts
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