Is this Tobacco Mosaic Virus? Tiger-stripe camo pattern on my leaves!

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Apical Bud

Well-Known Member
My whole crop seems to have come down with TMV. They haven't grown in weeks and nothing I've done to any of them has helped.
I grow in soil
My pH is 6.5-7, but I've lowered it to 6 on two plants, though that didn't help them
I use compost so I usually don't need to add nutes but so far to these I've added some kelp extract, some floramicro, and some miracle grow.

I look forward to any ideas

I'm about to throw them all out but I want to make sure this is incurable before I do.

EDIT: I should say that this first picture, the one with all the small plants, Is the same group about a month ago. You can see the one on the lower left is pterobad and the one in the green pot up top isn't too far behind. Most show no signs.
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booms111

booms111

Well-Known Member
whats the strain? Ive seen "TMV" on 2 strains before. You sure your not root bound in those pots since you say no growth? Maybe bad soil or reused soil with old roots?
 
Da Mann

Da Mann

Well-Known Member
I dont think so. I have only seen it twice. Once it did similar to leaves and once it only hit the new growth. I have some pics somewhere. I will see if I can find them.Need more info on grow. Lighting and how close and feeds. Watering.
 
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Apical Bud

Well-Known Member
The batch are all F1's of an F2 of a (GDPxPlushberry)xHarlequin that tested high for cbd and low for thc that I then self-fertilized. I also added tobacco to the compost to help lower pH and ward off fungus gnats. If it is TMV it could have come from either of these two vectors. Because this is an inbred batch I'm worried it has a weak immune system.

Over the course of 2 months I've once added the recommended dose of miracle grow 30-10-10 and a month later a dose of 10-60-10.
I have given them a single recommended dosage of FloraMicro, which is 5-1-1 I think but is loaded with micronutes.
Early on I gave them the recommended dosage of a liquid kelp meal and homemade gravity.
These symptoms showed up about a month ago. Before that they were growing just fine.
I have the group about 2 feet away from a 600 watt red-dominant LED, though 3 weeks ago I switch from a 600 watt MH.
The soil is home-depot organic compost soil mixed with potting soil and perlite. There is a single small fan blowing at the group.
I water them all when the first one droops, but I've recently concluded that on a few of them this practice has lead to over-watering. I don't believe any are currently over watered.
Root-binding is definitely a possibility, and if it weren't for the deformed growth and camoued leaves I'd think that were my only problem. I've checked and some are, but does root bind contribute to these growth characteristics?

Is there any explanation for the leaf characteristic besides TMV or some other infection? What about fungus gnats? My praying manti are working on them but they're a consistent presence.
Thanks.
 
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Da Mann

Da Mann

Well-Known Member
I think if you re pot and get good soil and nutes to it you will be ok. I know a lot of people here do not believe in flushing but I do. It has saved many a plant. I do not trust MG fert. So I am thinking roots and flush and good dirt and good fert..
 
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Apical Bud

Well-Known Member
racerboy71 said:
check for broad mites...
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There are a few mites on the undersides of leaves. They're not spider mites, with which I have plenty of experience. These broad mites, do they leave this distinctive leaf pattern?
I definitely will repot them. But I also want to make sure once I do they don't all die from TMV, ya know?
 
racerboy71

racerboy71

bud bootlegger
Apical Bud said:
There are a few mites on the undersides of leaves. They're not spider mites, with which I have plenty of experience. These broad mites, do they leave this distinctive leaf pattern?
I definitely will repot them. But I also want to make sure once I do they don't all die from TMV, ya know?
Click to expand...

i usually hate to get into this with people on here as it seems a lot of people believe that they have tmv in cannabis plants, but from all of the reading i had done, there is no such thing as tmv in cannabis plants, and i've never seen a single case of tmv being confirmed by any sort of lab, but usually, it's self diagnosed illness ime, it seems people run into problems such as yours, and are quick to say, oh, it's tmv.. i'm not saying you, i get into this a lot on this site..
here's a link..
http://www.marijuanagrowing.com/showthread.php?1445-Broad-Mites
but yes, it seems that broad mite damage is very similar to what tmv looks like on other plants, therefore the confusion.. being you're seeing mites on the under side of the leaves leads me to believe again, that what you're seeing is in fact not tmv, just a bad case of mite damage..
 
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Apical Bud

Well-Known Member
Thanks. I'll keep looking. Honestly I don't see many mites, though. On the worst leaves, with a magnifying glass there were three. I'll bring home a microscope from work to see if these buggers are the real deal, but I've been checking for mites the whole time and never thought they were in the picture ya know.
If Cannabis is immune to TMV that would be great. I'll do some research into your hypothesis but it sounds too good to be true (though that's my favorite sound lol).

Oh I should also mention the deformed leaves and their patterns appeared first when the plants were in the same pots but much smaller. I don't think root-bind is the cause of the leaf deformation but it may be the cause of the stunted growth. However, there definitely was a distinctive pattern of bleached, contorted leaves in a few that I chucked and so aren't in these pictures. So I have to conclude that the leaf distortion and discoloration aren't caused by the soil or the nutes because the plants that did terribly and the plants that did well were watered the same way in the same soil. Since the ph is fine and I haven't really added ferts I don't believe it is a salt or ph problem. Root bind could be the cause of one the problems (the stunted growth) but it alone wouldn't explain the leaves. Broad mites could be the explanation for the leaves but I really don't see many, haven't seen any all grow, and I have to assume they would be numerous if they have been feasting on my girls this whole time. I gave special attention to the worst-off plants, checking for bugs, pests, and my soil, and couldn't see a hint of a problem there, must less a full blown infestation. So even though TMV isn't the most common problem my worry is that the inbred lineage of these plants has given them a reduced immunity that makes them susceptible to diseases that usually aren't a problem.
Any thoughts? And thanks for reading!
 
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S'Manta

S'Manta

Well-Known Member
Idk about TMVbut with Rose Mosiac Virus, RMV, the veining shows up in a chartreusey, yellow and actually looks like a mosiac. Roses in Calif that have it show the virus in the leaves and the only symptom it may show is a stunted growth. I'm going to read about TMV and if it is similar to RMV and you are in a hot state, heat makes RMV go into a sort of remission.
I'd do what they say, repot, etc., and see what happens. Off to Google. :-D
 
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Apical Bud

Well-Known Member
Here! Here is a perfect example of what the ones I chucked looked like. This isn't my picture but it's just the same.
 
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Apical Bud

Well-Known Member
S'Manta said:
Idk about TMVbut with Rose Mosiac Virus, RMV, the veining shows up in a chartreusey, yellow and actually looks like a mosiac. Roses in Calif that have it show the virus in the leaves and the only symptom it may show is a stunted growth. I'm going to read about TMV and if it is similar to RMV and you are in a hot state, heat makes RMV go into a sort of remission.
I'd do what they say, repot, etc., and see what happens. Off to Google. :-D
Click to expand...
Hmmm It did get worse when I took them off the 85 degree MH and put in 65 degree LED...
 
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Apical Bud

Well-Known Member
Racer I will check for those mites. I haven't been using high-powered magnification but I've got my fingers crossed. A bath is a rosier outcome than sheers.
 
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Apical Bud

Well-Known Member
S'Manta said:
This is RMV..... I'm going to ask my rose club what they know about TMV cause reading technical crap makes my eyes bleed....;-) :-D
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Ha! Thank you. That looks different than mine but it's a different species and all. I could see it being that if my plants have it all over not just here and there.
 
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