Entitlement

NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
and we go right back to building codes.

once you complete construction, sure, your house is YOUR problem, but if it topples over it can crush a passing pedestrian, or your neighbor's house.
it is also a commodity. you may decide to sell it to somebody else, and if you didnt follow the codes for minimum safety, the buyer gets BONED when your shoddy construction collapses long after you have fled the area, leaving the buyer with a pile of rubble.

building codes are designed to ensure minimum standards for your house, to protect future owners from your shabby workmanship

the codes establish a MINIMUM standard. if you decide to frame your house at 14 from center instead of 18 (the current code in my neck of the woods) you can totally do that.

you MUST install plumbing that meets minimum standards, but you can do much better if you so desire

you MUST install the electrical within minimum standards too, so your shit doesnt catch fire and burn down your neighbors house.

this is not socialism, this is SOCIETY establishing standards, like "you must wear pants in public" or "you may not drop a deuce in your neighbor's lawn"

all social standards and interactions are not Socialism. Socialism is a governmental and economic scheme defined by Marx with established meanings, and building codes are not involved.

trying to re-frame the language to stifle debate is what youre doing, with this reductio ad absurdum nonsense, and trying to re-define Socialism to encompass all Society.

there was Society long before socialism was invented, and building codes are far older than Marx's pipe dreams of utopia
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I thought the general code was at least 16" OC. And you dont need 2x6 unless you are going 2 stories. It gets much much more complicated from there... Every municipality and every region has their own specifications for obvious reasons. Our houses are pathetically insulated to allow moisture to pass from the interior outwards. The houses would never be energy efficient in a cold/humid region.

But building codes have nothing to do with capitalism.

You want capitalism? Capitalism is figuring out how to comply with the codes for the least cost in terms of materials and labor in an effort to undercut your competition and increase your profit. It doesnt care what the building code is.
 
DonAlejandroVega

DonAlejandroVega

Well-Known Member
youz will be arguing in FEMA camps, nibbling on UN biscuits...................and I'll be eating armadillo jerky, smokin' dope, an. brewing heffeweizens, at an undisclosed location.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Lets explore facism and socialism in our government.

Obamacare is a nice batch of both. The statutes require insurance companies to offer certain plans meeting certain government criteria for a certain premium. This is fascism in that the government has taken control over the production in this case of the insurance companies. The socialism part is where everyone is forced to pay a fee or buy insurance and the people who make less money are subsidized. That is socialism.

There is not much pure capitalism left in America and although nobody could logically argue for pure capitalism, it is hard to argue for either other option.

DonAlejandroVega said:
youz will be arguing in FEMA camps, nibbling on UN biscuits...................and I'll be eating armadillo jerky, smokin' dope, an. brewing heffeweizens, at an undisclosed location.
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I just smoked a Dab and am puffing on some OG Kush and dont even care what time it is ;]
 
DonAlejandroVega

DonAlejandroVega

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
Lets explore facism and socialism in our government.

Obamacare is a nice bat


I just smoked a Dab and am puffing on some OG Kush and dont even care what time it is ;]
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rippin' some OG Lemon one-hitters :)
look forward to becoming a hashish maker again. flower is rough after 35 years..................
 
WORDZofWORDZCRAFT

WORDZofWORDZCRAFT

Well-Known Member
Dunbar Santiago said:
You know who else needs to grow up? Idiots that post on grow forums but don't grow. And english wankers that constantly post in threads about US government. And dudes that make threads about their "girlfriend", that used to be a RIU member strictly for the attention. Focus on your own government, and grow some damn weed. Oh and no one cares about your girl.
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this guy grows sooooooooo hard
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
your house is YOUR problem, but if it topples over it can crush a passing pedestrian, or your neighbor's house.

you may decide to sell it to somebody else, ... the buyer gets BONED when your shoddy construction

you MUST

you MUST

this is not socialism, this is SOCIETY establishing standards,
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Society establishing standards for my property, for the benefit of society. You seem to be going to great lengths to justify "big government" involvement in my property, alleviating others of their personal responsibility (for example, to inspect a home before buying it) while at the same time claiming it's not "socialism." :)

Maybe because it's "big government" you personally benefit from. (wink)

Of course, I'm playing devil's advocate. I agree with all your rationalizations for why we use the State to create an outcome willing buyers and sellers wouldn't. I only disagree with your unwillingness to apply the same rationalization to other things which opponents slur as "socialism."

BTW: You've latched onto building codes as a safety matter. In my area 90% of residential homes have enough margin between them that, in the highly unlikely event that they "collapse" because someone spaced 2x4s at 19 inches off center (instead of the 18 inches you want to use the State to *force* everyone to use -- wink!), it would remain on their property.

Do you still want to use Big Government to protect us from ourselves, in that highly unlikely scenario?

And, I've mentioned zoning laws a number of times, how they limit our enjoyment of our property. I notice you steer clear of that, preferring the easier "public safety" rationale of building codes. Care to take a swipe at my neighbor who'd like to convert her home into a late-night biker bar -- and how we use the State to force her to dispose of her private property in a manner beneficial to the rest of us?

I'm sure you'll find a creative way to explain why that's not "socialism," but everything you disagree with is. :)
 
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az2000

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
Capitalism NEEDS regulation to ensure that it occurs without violence or coercion, but regulations are NOT domination by The State.
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Of course, I totally agree. I'm just perplexed why you feel other acts of "socializing the market" aren't "socialism." Our social contract (oops, another "socialism" compared to raw, unadulterated individual consent) depends upon the consent of the governed. Without it, our society ceases to function. As inequality deepens, more people see the system as "rigged." They care less about the "common good," and more about their individual interest. So-called "entitlements" are a means of giving the disenfranchised a stake in the system. To ensure our system functions with less violence and coercion (as in, uprisings, crime, etc.).

Personally, I'd rather see money spent on education and subsidies to employers to hire the unemployable than direct payments to the disinfranchised. I think we could do better. But, in either case, you'd call it "socialism" -- while refusing to apply that pejorative to social moderation of other markets you personally benefit from.

Dr Kynes said:
when The State dominates a market, it stops being a market and becomes an Authoritarian Socialist Monopoly.
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Remind me again how zoning laws are not a State domination of the market?
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
If you thought my argument had anything to do with zoning laws,
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I know you don't want it to have anything with zoning laws. But, my point is: when you say something like the State (society) taking profits and redistributing it as they see fit, I have to ask how you feel about the State (society) taking your profit from your privately owned property by limiting how you may use and dispose of it. (I'm suggesting "profit" is subjective to each person's use of their property.).

I doubt you want to call zoning laws "socialism" because it would make you sound like the irrelevant fringe. But, the principle is the same. In one case, you want to sound all goose-bumply with principled rhetoric about "socialism." But, in the other case... well... it works out ok. Big Nellie's Biker Bar next door won't happen. You get to sleep at night. Bikers or a deaf person won't have a sweet deal on your property -- all because society stepped in to *force* everyone to comply with your idea of what's kosher.

Way back when zoning laws were first enacted, libertarian-leaning individuals screamed "socialism" too. Today it's part of civilized life. We redistribute wealth in other ways and, OMG, "socialism!"
 
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az2000

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
You want capitalism? Capitalism is figuring out how to comply with the codes for the least cost in terms of materials and labor in an effort to undercut your competition and increase your profit. It doesnt care what the building code is.
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Why doesn't the same logic hold true for running your business while paying more for labor, or subsidizing the unemployable? Why is the latter "socialism," but the additional costs of building a home (in a way I may not consent to) are just the accepted baseline for "capitalism" to begin from?
 
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