Why Did My Plants Stop Growing?

[mjj123]

Hello,

I had 5 seedlings going good, but then their growth stalled and has come to a stop for a week. Leaves are turning brown, the plants just don't look good. They were just opening the first set of true leaves. I'm trying to pinpoint what caused this.

I had them in rockwool cubes, without plastic wrapping around them, and not in a tray. They were getting light through a window until they broke through, then had two 23-watt CFL's and two 13-watt CFLs on them for about 18 hours a day. They were getting rainwater when the cubes felt very light. I would dip the cubes 1/4 the way into water and let them soak up for 10 seconds.

What is the most likely thing that caused the plants to stop? I'm thinking:
- not enough light
- maybe the cubes dried out too fast without any wrapping. Maybe I didn't let the cubes get quite dry enough.
- lack of nutrients in the rockwool and rainwater
- plants got a little too close to CFL's

Any help will get +REP

 

[DonAlejandroVega]

Hello,

I had 5 seedlings going good, but then their growth stalled and has come to a stop for a week. Leaves are turning brown, the plants just don't look good. They were just opening the first set of true leaves. I'm trying to pinpoint what caused this.

I had them in rockwool cubes, without plastic wrapping around them, and not in a tray. They were getting light through a window until they broke through, then had two 23-watt CFL's and two 13-watt CFLs on them for about 18 hours a day. They were getting rainwater when the cubes felt very light. I would dip the cubes 1/4 the way into water and let them soak up for 10 seconds.

What is the most likely thing that caused the plants to stop? I'm thinking:
- not enough light
- maybe the cubes dried out too fast without any wrapping. Maybe I didn't let the cubes get quite dry enough.
- lack of nutrients in the rockwool and rainwater
- plants got a little too close to CFL's

Any help will get +REP

positive rep, indeed, to diagnose the issue without a pic; not that one is truly needed.
post a pic.......and stop drowning them.

 

[Squidbilly]

DUDE feed your plants, rockwool is completely inert, meaning there's NOTHING in it. Your plants are telling you they are hungry. Start very very very slow. 1/8-1/4 strength. I feed in rockwool from day 1. They will bounce back pretty quickly. Not feeding your plant until x nodes or x amount of time is for the soil guys. Hydro gets food almost immediately. I wait for the seed to sprout(when I'm using rockwool) and start working on that 3 blade set of leaves(less then a week after planting seed), then they get 150ppm base nutes.

I did the same thing when I started growing using rockwool cubes, now I know they want food from day one(just a very little bit). In nature a seed falls into fertile ground(soil). Your plants are eating themselves trying to stay alive,

Hope this helps, pictures would be helpful. I'm assuming a lot of things, but if your in rockwool and haven't fed them anything yet, they are starving.

 

[DonAlejandroVega]

DUDE feed your plants, rockwool is completely inert, meaning there's NOTHING in it. Your plants are telling you they are hungry. Start very very very slow. 1/8-1/4 strength. I feed in rockwool from day 1. They will bounce back pretty quickly. Not feeding your plant until x nodes or x amount of time is for the soil guys. Hydro gets food almost immediately. I wait for the seed to sprout(when I'm using rockwool) and start working on that 3 blade set of leaves(less then a week after planting seed), then they get 150ppm base nutes.

I did the same thing when I started growing using rockwool cubes, now I know they want food from day one(just a very little bit). In nature a seed falls into fertile ground(soil). Your plants are eating themselves trying to stay alive,

Hope this helps, pictures would be helpful. I'm assuming a lot of things, but if your in rockwool and haven't fed them anything yet, they are starving.

there ya go....a hydro man for ya. thanks, SB!

 

[scarecrow77]

you suffocated the roots id say..its hard to tell without a pic..did you soak the cubes to stabilize ph..thats another thing That could have done it..not sure tho..

 

[mjj123]

Thanks guys. Here are some pictures from three days ago. The plants look pretty similar now, just even more browning on the part that were green. The jagged leaves have sort of gone vertical and closed up even more. I'll get a picture of them today. I did do the pH soak following the instructions on the package. They are now in soil in pots outside. I'm just hoping they'll bounce back somehow, but is there even a chance?

 

[wiid206]

That is a combination of overwatering (because you were afraid they were going to die if you didnt) and lack of nutrients. Rockwool is nothing more than rocks busted into powder, and spun at high heat like cotton candy. They are less nourishing that sterile sand. They have absolutely zero nutrients whatsoever. You have what I like to call supermodel plants. Lol. If you plan to go soil, you need to plant them immediately. Stop reading right now, and go plant them in some fox farm. Water heavily the first watering, ensuring there is at least a gallon of runoff, because fox farm has enough nutrients to burn a young seedling, and you want the nutrients to saturate the rockwool cube. It needs phosphate and nitrogen ASAP or else they will all die. And because they are enduring such stress, there is a good chance they could hermie. If I were you, which I'm not, I would snatch all those seedlings up and start over. You can still save them, yeah, but you don't want to start off like this. You want to start off strong and healthy. Since they are young, you havent been set back very far.
Are you going to soil or hydroponics? There are more effective ways to root a plant for hydro, and soil. Roots are roots, but hydro roots form with many more hairs on them because there is no soil to latch onto. So it would be best to germinate them in water, keep them in water. If you feel like you must plant them, plant them in 100% perlite mix and water them with nutrients. Water alone isn't going to do the trick forever. Once your plants have rooted good, about 2 weeks after the first leaves, maybe, uproot them gently and dunk the roots in water until the majority of the perlite washes off. Then transfer them to your DWC or aero, or whatever you are using.
choose the biggest, hardest darkest(or grayest) seeds. The bigger and harder they are, the better. The darker they are, or the more evenly gray, or striped or spotted, the better
drop seeds in a glass of water, keep in a warm, dark place. check after 24 hours, then check again every hour.
when the seeds pop, you will see a taproot. let the taproot emerge about .5 to 1", then transfer
If using using, water when the top two inches is bone dry, about every 3 days or so. They need wet AND dry. The roots need to breathe. By oversaturating them, you will suffocate them and they will die.
The day you plant the seedlings, keep them at 78 degrees, 80 percent humidity, under 24 hr light (ill explain why 24 hr is better)
Two 23 watt CFL bulbs in a contained area will keep it at a moderate temperature. Just put a thermometer in there with a humidity gauge and keep an eye on it. The higher the humidity for seedlings and young veg, the better. The more light, the better. You are not going to oversaturate them with CFL. It isn't possible. In order to get much output, the CFLS would have to be arranged in such a way that would make it impossible for the PAR to reach the plants.
If you plant them in soil, you don't necessarily need nutrients, but I highly recommend some vegetative growth inducing solubles. I would not use topical salts on soil. I might mix some with my soil, but not applied topically. Just my two cents.
Make sure to keep the CFL bulbs two fingers above the plant. If the bulb doesn't make your nail polish tacky, then the heat isn't high enough to affect the cellulose in the plant's system. A little trick I picked up.
The only way you might save those plants is by getting them some nutes, and fresh air, ASAP

 

[wiid206]

The reason they started off so well is because the seedlings have a reserve of nutrients inside the seed. But that nutrient reserve diminishes very quickly. Which is why they are dying now

 

[bullwinkle60]

Your first mistake was germinating them in something other than the pot they will be growing in. Plant them in a prewatered pot about 1/4 inch down. Keep the area moist with a spray bottle and in 3-4 days you'll have viable sprouts.. Works for me every time.. And with respect to nutrients don't feed them anything for three weeks, (provided you are using good soil like Fox Farms Ocean Forest) then start off slow with veg nutes only.ON the 4th week of vegging switch to 12/12. You will need a lot more light though. And remember with CFL's it's actual watts that count not replacement watts.

 

[wiid206]

By the way, the source of my knowledge is from the journals of world renowned Israeli Cannabis Scientist Dr. Raphael Mechoulam, who, at the age of 80, Knows quite a bit on the subject

 

[mjj123]

Wow thanks for the reply. So overwatering and lack of nutrients huh? Do you think the problem was more watering too frequently or putting too much water in the cube when I did? I was planning to go soil all along. I saw in a book someone used rockwool and then put it into soil about three days in. I guess I should have put the cubes into soil earlier. I won't use rockwool next time.

I have the plants in soil now, just hoping for the best but not expecting much. I have one more seed germinating right now, and would like to give it the best start possible to eventually end up growing outside in a big pot. What would be my best bet? I'm thinking I'll just put it in a Solo Cup size pot with soil/perlite mix right after germination.

 

[wiid206]

I would have no idea how to diagnose your treatment unless I knew your watering schedule. You will want to wait until the first 2 inches of soil is bone dry before you water. Wait until you see signs. A sign of a plant that needs water will be drooping leaves, like on an under watered plant, but the branches will be curved, firm and upright and the leaves will feel crunchy and appear shriveled. And the tips will curl under. An overwatered plant just wilts, but does it in a very similar fashion. Don't wait that long. You can also do it by weight. Fill a similar pot with dry soil. When your plant feels about the same weight, and the soil is dry, time to water. See, the things with starting a seed in rockwool is, you have to know what the roots want. Roots grow slowly when there is an abundance of water. And if your roots grow slow, so will your plant. When there is less water, the roots stretch out in search of it. You should only water rockwool cubes when the plant is showing signs of dehydration, and this can be very tricky and stress the plant.

 

[wiid206]

Start with something like Technaflora line. Me and my bro both use it, it's good stuff. For young seedlings, start with maybe 1/4 potency, do maybe 1 feeding a week, the next feeding being plain water. Then up it to half, then to full strength, then follow the chart on the bottle. Some good stuff for starters would be, go ahead and get your hands on some B.C grow, B.C bloom, and awesome blossoms. Or something similar from a reputable company.

 

[mjj123]

Awesome information. Yeah this was my first ever attempt at a grow. Hoping things go better from here . What's your recommended way of getting a seed going for a soil grow? I'm thinking I'll just put the seed 1/4" down in moist soil and let it go from there.

 

[wiid206]

Awesome information. Yeah this was my first ever attempt at a grow. Hoping things go better from here . What's your recommended way of getting a seed going for a soil grow? I'm thinking I'll just put the seed 1/4" down in moist soil and let it go from there.

There really is no wrong way to do it. There are more effective ways, but cannabis is a weed, and an herb, and happens to be very resilient.
All I grow is soil, mostly organic because it's easier for me to maintain. If you want to know my method, you are going to have to buy the products that I use, or else my advice is practically useless.
When I grow, I start by taking 10 seeds and dropping them in glass of distilled ph balanced water. Keep them in a warm, dark place for 24 hours. When you check on them, poke them and see if they sink. Try to make them all sink. Eventually, the seeds will pop open and a single taproot will emerge.
Prepare some sphagnum peat moss pellets (seed starter pellets), making sure they are expanded, thoroughly wet, but not dripping wet. After they swell, give them a gentle squeeze to shed the extra water, and using a skewer or toothpick, poke a hole down into the pellet.
Plant your seed with the taproot facing down, about .5" (1.5cm) into the pellet, loosely cover the hole, so that no light gets in.
Place your pellets in some kind of tray. I use a 1' long, 4" wide, 6" tall clear tupperware box with seran wrap stretched across the top to hold in moisture.
Keep the tray under at least 65watts per square foot of CFL (I have a rig you might like to try. It has six 23 watt CFL bulbs, 7 adapters, and fits into a single socket. total cost: $45 ish, difficulty: Legos, wattage: 192 p.sf)
When the seeds emerge you will see a stem with a seed helmet, lol. When it pops out of the seed helmet it will have two round leaves I call cotes. cotelydon or something like that. Seed leaves.
Once the seed leaves are showing, I remove the seran wrap and aim a fan at them on low.
Grow them until the growth begins to slow down substantially. This means your roots are bound and ready for transplant. (If you have the pellets just sitting there like mine, the roots will emerge from the peat pellet. If this is the case, when the roots emerge...)Plant the entire peat pellet and all into a 5X5 pot with fox farm mixed with 50% perlite. I have a knockout soil recipe, if you want to know it. I got it from high times magazine.
As far as starting seeds and planting goes, that is basically all there is to the germination stage. Your seed, from the day it pops, to the day it enters the vegetative state, will only be about two weeks. You will know your plant has entered the vegetative state when the cotes atrophy and fall off. At this point, you are going to want at least 100 CFL watts p.sf
I can show you how to set up a knock out grow room. I can teach you how to build a $9 carbon filter, a free, recycled light mover (go, go, power wheels), and a CFL light housing, all these things will save you hundreds, maybe even a thousand bucks.
I can show you how to make your plant grow in ways you never would have imagined and produce tons of bud. I can even show you best arrangements to make everything as easy as possible. There are many ways to do this, but in my opinion, the right way would be the easy way. Cheers

 

[wiid206]

And as far as overwatering, your plants should be in drain pots. You could feed them 8 gallons in a 5x5 if you want to. It won't hurt a thing because the soil will only hold as much as the capacity of the cup, the rest will drain out. When it comes to overwatering, what matters is how often you water. You will want the soil to dry up a good bit, almost completely, before you water again. This gives the plants some time for the roots to breathe a little. Too much water causes the roots to become water logged. When they are water logged they cannot draw important nutrients, like CO2 and other things. The roots will begin to die and so will the plant. When the roots die, there is no hope of saving the plant. This is known as root rot. Another thing that easily causes root rot is watering with a solution that has a PH too high or too low for cannabis consumption. A perfect PH for soil is between 5.8 and 7. You can get away with it being more acidic or more alkaline, but your plants will miss out on valuable nutrients. Another thing that causes root rot is not letting your pots drain properly. They must be able to drain freely and not be allowed to sit in standing water. I elevate my plants on a wire rack so that they can drain freely into a pan below. This also makes it easier to water. Leaving the pan in the grow room for a day or two also increases the humidity, but be very careful doing this as it can cause serious mold problems if you are not immaculately clean. If you use the open container humidty method, make sure to supply fresh water to the container daily, and wash it out thoroughly every three days. Clean up all spilled water, and whatever you do, try not to grow on carpet or other porous material

 

[wiid206]

DUDE feed your plants, rockwool is completely inert, meaning there's NOTHING in it. Your plants are telling you they are hungry. Start very very very slow. 1/8-1/4 strength. I feed in rockwool from day 1. They will bounce back pretty quickly. Not feeding your plant until x nodes or x amount of time is for the soil guys. Hydro gets food almost immediately. I wait for the seed to sprout(when I'm using rockwool) and start working on that 3 blade set of leaves(less then a week after planting seed), then they get 150ppm base nutes.

I did the same thing when I started growing using rockwool cubes, now I know they want food from day one(just a very little bit). In nature a seed falls into fertile ground(soil). Your plants are eating themselves trying to stay alive,

Hope this helps, pictures would be helpful. I'm assuming a lot of things, but if your in rockwool and haven't fed them anything yet, they are starving.

And no doubt, for an experienced grower, hydro is the absolute best method as you have complete control over exactly what and when, down to the smallest particle, your plants consume. You can control your plants nutrient intake so much better with hydro, and plants tend to grow faster and often times yield more. Soil bud, especially organic, tastes great, but a top notch hydro grow cannot be fucked with

 

[mjj123]

Thank you so much for all the information, I can use every bit I can get. Another thing I was wondering was about the heat of the lights. The 23w CFL's I have really don't give off much, but they are in desk lamps with reflectors and I may have had them too close. Should I not even be able to feel any heat when I put my hand right above the plants? And is ProMix soil better than Miracle-Gro soil? Especially for seedlings.

 

[wiid206]

Thank you so much for all the information, I can use every bit I can get. Another thing I was wondering was about the heat of the lights. The 23w CFL's I have really don't give off much, but they are in desk lamps with reflectors and I may have had them too close. Should I not even be able to feel any heat when I put my hand right above the plants? And is ProMix soil better than Miracle-Gro soil? Especially for seedlings.

A CFL spring bulb can be safely placed 1 to 3" above the top of the plant wihtout burning it. The rule of thumb is, put your hand on the top of your plant. If the light doesn't burn your hand, it will not burn the cannabis.
And there are tons of different soil mixes out there, and promix and miracle-gro both make many different kinds of soil. It isn't so much the name brand you are looking for as the mixture. You want your mixture to be light and airy, and chock full of a specific blend of nutrients. You can mix your own soil by using such ingredients not limited to bat guano, bone meal, lye, lime, sulphur, sphagnum peat moss, perlite and vermiculite. Find a good soil recipe that has an appropriate PH and a good balance of nutrients. I can find you one that can be obtained easily from your local hydro store or nursery.
If you are looking for pre mixed soils, you will want to keep an eye out for names like Happy Frog, Fox Farm and Pro-Mix, this is true, but the important thing is to know the percentage of the ingredients of the soil. For the most part, you are going to want half perlite and half peat moss, and the other stuff, like bat guano and bone marrow meal, will be in the list of ingredients. If you choose an inorganic brand of soil, choose wisely. You will want something with a 5.8 to 6 PH, half perlite, half sphagnum peat moss, but with 20-10-10 for starting plants and 15-30-30 for flowering plants. Nitrogen (N) is very important, and while growers generally don't have to add a lot of nitrogen, a dense nitrogen reserve is always a good thing. Phosphates (P) and soluble potash (K) can be consumed in great quantities during flowering. During vegetative state, the plant needs mostly Nitrogen for the climb to maturity. So something like 20-10-10 or 30-15-15 would be good for veg, where somthing like 10-20-20 and 15-30-30 would be great for flower.
The use of foliar sprays, like Technaflora's Awesome Blossoms, can increase your yield dramatically if used properly. A foliar spray is NOT designed to be sprayed on buds, but on the underside of the leaves during early and mid flower. The solution helps your buds grow super dense. You will notice buds growing within bud sites using something like awesome blossoms.
But for soil, my personal recommendation is Fox Farm - Ocean Forest with 50% perlite, flushed with 3 gallons of water, 2 cups of bat guano added. This is a simple and basic mix used by both indoor and outdoor growers. It is primitive, but it will get the job done.
If you have no choice but home depot, then you have a wal mart around the corner, and they just started carrying Fox Farm Ocean Forest, and other products by Fox Farm. Hope this helps
Afterthought: I do not in any way advocate wal mart or any of it's associates or affiliates.

 

[Indoor Sun King]

Thank you so much for all the information, I can use every bit I can get. Another thing I was wondering was about the heat of the lights. The 23w CFL's I have really don't give off much, but they are in desk lamps with reflectors and I may have had them too close. Should I not even be able to feel any heat when I put my hand right above the plants? And is ProMix soil better than Miracle-Gro soil? Especially for seedlings.

I prefer to start in rock-wool....I saturate it in distilled water, put the seed in pointy end down, put into a warm dark environment until it sprouts, then under light

Do not water until the rock wool becomes fairly dry, but don't let it go bone dry when they are young.....I transplant into the final pot once the roots are growing out the bottom of the rock-wool (typically a few days)

I start with a single 23 watt 6500K CFL (about an inch away) then add more lights when required ......and I don't use nutes for the first 2 weeks, and even longer if growing in soil (3 weeks)

IMHO....Miracle-Grow works but is not overly forgiving