lED/Nutrients
- Thread starter Blue Gill
- Start date
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Yeah... it's those damn jews.... I'm like the nutrient version of alex jones bruh
It's no conspiracy theory that nutrient company stakeholders constantly defend their products ,here. in the nutrient section, so I'm sorry if i think anyone defending these crappy products with 0 good points must be from those companies. It's just that I've seen this bullshit going on for so long, I can't understand how it hasn't died out of mainstream yet.
One thing I do agree with is that my message is pretty simple minded. "Quit being morons". There's nothing complex to this message, I agree.
If you continue to buy cal-mag+ knowing full well what you're buying is diluted calcium nitrate, you're just a fool. A fool and his money are soon parted. If only you guys would give the money to me instead. I'll give you "cal-mag++" if you send me all your folded rectangular green pieces of paper.
I will continue to spread the word. Calcium nitrate is the main ingredient, costs a mere 1-2 dollar pound. It provides the exact same calcium ions and nitrate ions that are found in the diluted bottle of cal-mag+.
Cal-mag+'s main ingredient is calcium nitrate.
What a huge shocker!!!
It's no conspiracy theory that nutrient company stakeholders constantly defend their products ,here. in the nutrient section, so I'm sorry if i think anyone defending these crappy products with 0 good points must be from those companies. It's just that I've seen this bullshit going on for so long, I can't understand how it hasn't died out of mainstream yet.
One thing I do agree with is that my message is pretty simple minded. "Quit being morons". There's nothing complex to this message, I agree.
If you continue to buy cal-mag+ knowing full well what you're buying is diluted calcium nitrate, you're just a fool. A fool and his money are soon parted. If only you guys would give the money to me instead. I'll give you "cal-mag++" if you send me all your folded rectangular green pieces of paper.
I will continue to spread the word. Calcium nitrate is the main ingredient, costs a mere 1-2 dollar pound. It provides the exact same calcium ions and nitrate ions that are found in the diluted bottle of cal-mag+.
Cal-mag+'s main ingredient is calcium nitrate.
What a huge shocker!!!
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churchhaze
Well-Known Member
No to the former question, yes to the latter question.
There's no such thing as cal-mag. Just calcium and magnesium. Not only will you get Mg way cheaper as epsom salt, you'll actually be able to fix a magnesium deficiency, whereas calcium and magnesium antagonize each other. It's counter intuitive adding them both at once if only one is deficient. Adding calcium to fix magnesium will make the problem worse, and vice versa.
It's sort of like using a hammer to smash in screws and nails alike. It's only going to work on the nails. (only the hammer costs 5 times the price of a normal hammer because of its ability to turn screws)
My point about Ca:Mg was that : makes something a ratio. Ca:Mg is a very important ratio too, which must be kept at a good balance. When I see Ca:Mg, I think Calcium TO magnesium ratio, which is actually a very important variable.
There's no such thing as cal-mag. Just calcium and magnesium. Not only will you get Mg way cheaper as epsom salt, you'll actually be able to fix a magnesium deficiency, whereas calcium and magnesium antagonize each other. It's counter intuitive adding them both at once if only one is deficient. Adding calcium to fix magnesium will make the problem worse, and vice versa.
It's sort of like using a hammer to smash in screws and nails alike. It's only going to work on the nails. (only the hammer costs 5 times the price of a normal hammer because of its ability to turn screws)
My point about Ca:Mg was that : makes something a ratio. Ca:Mg is a very important ratio too, which must be kept at a good balance. When I see Ca:Mg, I think Calcium TO magnesium ratio, which is actually a very important variable.
ooh, cal/mag++? are you adding unneeded sulfur to the unneeded iron alongside the super calcium nitrate and magnessium sulfate? Il do you 1 better and do cal/mag/sil+ and throw potassium silicate in the mix, cuz im a fuckin genius! Take that.lol
What makes calmag supplements different than veg or bloom fertilizers? I.e., we can buy raw N-P-K (as well as minerals).
Are you saying the calmag supplements use the wrong ratio?
People may use calmag supplements for the same reason they use PK supplements: the two deficiencies tend to go hand in hand with our plants -- and it's an ease-of-use matter.
I just don't know if calling people fools is the best evangelical strategy. I can see how there are better alternatives, but there are extremely experienced growers using calmag supplements. Calling them fools sounds more about building yourself up than promoting an alternative. (Look at Blue's reaction.). In that context, "better" can be situational. For a new grower, they may not be comfortable with mixing their own N-P-K fertilizers, nor attempt to target Ca and Mg deficiencies independently when the combo is well accepted even among experienced growers.
Not saying you don't have a valid point. But, just that your approach may not be realistic. Flys, honey, etc.
Best regards.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
You can get raw potassium, but it's very expensive and will explode violently when you get it wet.
Stick with salts.
Yes. The best ratio is around 2 calcium to 1 magnesium by mass. Believe it or not, the most frequent cause of magnesium deficiency is actually caused by too much calcium, and vice versa.
That's not exactly true. the reason P and K go together is because monopotassium phosphate (KH2PO4) is the most economical and most effective source of phosphate for hydroponics. There's really no other reason. If you want K without increasing H2PO4, you use potassium nitrate or potassium hydroxide. The more you know abuot inorganic chemistry, the more obvious it is that there are only a few combinations that work. Calcium nitrate is the only feasible form of calcium that will work in hydroponics. It's more than just a good thing to have, it's absolutely essential to use calcium nitrate if you want calcium in your solution. The only other alternative is calcium chloride, and that would send chlorine levels through the roof.
I don't need to attract flies. You guys aren't doing me any favors. On the contrary, you should all be thanking me for the free chemistry lessons. Not to be arrogant, but it's clear that the majority of posters in the nutrient section could learn a lot about chemistry from me. If you were actually my students, I'd ask you to drop my class. I'm trying to reach the scientists, engineers, and mathematicians, not those with their heads stuck deep into the sand.
Your argument doesn't change my belief that those who insist on buying cal-mag+ despite knowing what's in it are fools. Those who are ignorant aren't fools, but once you become educated, you're a fool to keep believing the lies. I can only put the truth out there, but I can't force anyone to accept it. What's in those bottles is much simpler than people are led to believe. Even if i had a full journal of pictures from start to finish, I wouldn't want to post it here to people who haven't' even downloaded hydrobuddy yet. That's just lazy. Go download hydrobuddy and open your eyes to inorganic chemistry.
Those "expert" growers using cal-mag+ should stop and think for a second. You don't need pictures to exercise common sense. Sure it may work, but it's blowing money needlessly on diluted salts that could easily be purchased dry, with MORE control, and without the bullshit (like dye).
Furthermore, it would be 100x easier to help noobs if they didn't all use a different brand of the exact same thing. It's like people using GH flora 3 part can't figure out that AN 3 part is the exact same product. It's all the same, and there's really no other way it can be.
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churchhaze
Well-Known Member
This is exactly the foolish attitude I'm talking about. You want to learn, but you won't open your ears and listen to professor church. My goal is to educate people on how they can save money by avoiding these diluted salt products and to show how hydrobuddy (or hand calculations) can be used to formulate complete hydroponic mixes using dry salts with high precision.
Your defensive response shows that you are afraid of what is clearly true. I can't fix that, but there are a few people who might be looking for this information who would otherwise have to comb through thousands of pages of bullshit posts to find what they're looking for.
The terms Cal-mag, cal mag, cal:mag (if not intended as a ratio) are instant giveaways to me that the poster is dull (i mean that in the nicest way possible) and only knows how to copy other grows to the tee. Even abbreviating magnesium as MG (all capital) is a huge red flag that I'm talking to a smug dull guy. There's nothing wrong with being a factory worker, but to argue with the engineers and scientists that design your bottles is just plain naive.
Your defensive response shows that you are afraid of what is clearly true. I can't fix that, but there are a few people who might be looking for this information who would otherwise have to comb through thousands of pages of bullshit posts to find what they're looking for.
The terms Cal-mag, cal mag, cal:mag (if not intended as a ratio) are instant giveaways to me that the poster is dull (i mean that in the nicest way possible) and only knows how to copy other grows to the tee. Even abbreviating magnesium as MG (all capital) is a huge red flag that I'm talking to a smug dull guy. There's nothing wrong with being a factory worker, but to argue with the engineers and scientists that design your bottles is just plain naive.
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It seems presumptuous (if not hijacking) to reply to growers who aren't scientists with a no-compromise tone, and then defend that tone by saying you'd like most posters (students) to drop your class.
I guess that's what I meant about flies, honey and vinegar. I hope your endeavors are as productive as you hope them to be.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
I'm here to talk about nutrients, not to attract flies. I would rather repel flies. Flies are not welcome. They can "buzz off".
This is the nutrient section, not the group therapy section. Do you have any chemistry questions I might be able to answer or are you beyond hope?
Do you think I care if I sounds arrogant? Do you know what sounds arrogant to me? You, with very little knowledge of chemistry, thinks he should attempt to shut down someone who clearly has a wealth of information he's willing to share, as if you know better on the subject. That's what is arrogant. In your situation, it would make sense to back down or start reading up when you no longer understand what's going on, rather than attack everything you don't understand.
This is the nutrient section, not the group therapy section. Do you have any chemistry questions I might be able to answer or are you beyond hope?
Do you think I care if I sounds arrogant? Do you know what sounds arrogant to me? You, with very little knowledge of chemistry, thinks he should attempt to shut down someone who clearly has a wealth of information he's willing to share, as if you know better on the subject. That's what is arrogant. In your situation, it would make sense to back down or start reading up when you no longer understand what's going on, rather than attack everything you don't understand.
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churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Blue Gill
Member
You're an ass. I know a back stabbing little coward like you. Face to face you wouldn't act like this long. Cuz I'm Popeye!
I'm just curious....do you pick fights? I mean real fights? Or are you a coward there too hiding behind Yo momma's skirt?
By the way, I am on disability for bi-polar and severe ADD. I grow because I need to. Thanks for the help.
I'm just curious....do you pick fights? I mean real fights? Or are you a coward there too hiding behind Yo momma's skirt?
By the way, I am on disability for bi-polar and severe ADD. I grow because I need to. Thanks for the help.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Blue Gill
Member
Hey church....Here's a few pics of one of my rooms to show you the extent of this problem. I've already scrapped one grow due to this. I start them under CFL's and they are thriving til I put them under the LED's. I changed from HID's and T-5's due to the fact that the county sheriff now has a drone with flir. Gotta reduce heat. Plus all the other benefits.Manufacturer recommends 2'-3' from plants. To cut nutrients by 1/3-1/2 and increase Cal Mag (I know you hate that but that's what it says). It does not say how much to increase it.
I had been using 5ml/gal before LED's so I increased to 8mg/gal. Problems start to appear after 7-10 days. I increased to 12mg, no change. Then 15 then20mg/gal. Did I OD the plants??
I'm growing in dirt (3 parts Ocean Forest, 1 part Light Warrior, 2 parts perlite).
PH is good. I checked the Blue Lab with the drops and it's calibrated correctly.
Please speak in simple terms as I only had 1 1/2 yrs college. Had to quit due to uncontrollable circumstances. That was 1969, the "Summer of Love".
Any way, can you help me? If not, that's fine.
You cant decrease your bases and tripple an additive, I know im not church but I already explained all that, Church talks about ratios pretty frequently for a reason, they are pretty important
chuck estevez
Well-Known Member
I was going to point out that 10 ml of "cal-mag" is over twice the recommended amount regardless of what is in it, that is not right.
941mick
Well-Known Member
First off beautiful room! I do think you could bring the lights a little closer, it looks like your more on the 3' away than the 2'. 24"-28" is a great distance for established plants in my experience.
As for the cal/mag issue...Defiantly looks like the later stages of cal/mag deficiency.
My nutrient recommendation is General Organics CaMg+. It's Calcium and Magnesium Carbonate supplement, so you don't have to worry about feeding your plants nitrogen in mid-late flower like with the nitrate CaMg products. I feed at a rate of 5ml/gal every watering. Haven't had a CaMg deficiency since I started using this product.
