A freedom movement is only possible in...

[UncleBuck]

The only person I have heard say that is you.

lots of people want to get rid of civil rights, thus making it once again legal for white racists to deny service to black people on the basis that they are black.

desert dude is one of them. ginwilly is one of them. rawn pawl is one of them. rend pawl is one of them. stormfront is full of people that want to get rid of civil rights. so is the KKK.

 

[MidwesternGro]

Liberals and conservatives to a lesser extent seem to have a major problem that libertarian people do not.

Each of those wants to enforce their respective agendas and sensitivities upon us all.

You'll never hear a social conservative say, I'm opposed to abortion at a personal level for religious reasons. But I'm fine with letting people choose.

You'll never hear a liberal say I really don't like that conservative Christians are against homosexuality, but I will let them conduct their affairs in their church as they see fit.

Each of these groups wants to legislate their own views on us all.

Libertarians, they say such things.

Libertarians want to allow corporations and private individuals to spew unlimited amounts of pollution onto their property, which affects my quality of life when it seeps into my drinking water. This is why people dislike the libertarian agenda.

We need government regulations.

 

[ginwilly]

Libertarians want to allow corporations and private individuals to spew unlimited amounts of pollution onto their property, which affects my quality of life when it seeps into my drinking water. This is why people dislike the libertarian agenda.

We need government regulations.

That's not true, a libertarian will say we don't want pollution so let's make a law against it and not allow it, a progressive will say we don't want pollution, so let's charge them for it, give that money over here to people we approve of and raise taxes to pay for the department of charging the polluters for the sake of the good guys.

I like the libertarian way better.

 

[UncleBuck]

That's not true, a libertarian will say we don't want pollution so let's make a law against it and not allow it, a progressive will say we don't want pollution, so let's charge them for it, give that money over here to people we approve of and raise taxes to pay for the department of charging the polluters for the sake of the good guys.

I like the libertarian way better.

why do you want to make it legal for racist whites to deny service to blacks on the basis that they are black?

who do you feel would gain greater liberty from that?

 

[ginwilly]

why do you want to make it legal for racist whites to deny service to blacks on the basis that they are black?

who do you feel would gain greater liberty from that?

I also want to allow racist blacks to deny whites. I would rather not patronize a place that was serving me against their will.

Why do you want to lock up blacks longer if they chose a white victim instead of a black one?

 

[ChesusRice]

 

[SmokeyDan]

lots of people want to get rid of civil rights, thus making it once again legal for white racists to deny service to black people on the basis that they are black.

desert dude is one of them. ginwilly is one of them. rawn pawl is one of them. rend pawl is one of them. stormfront is full of people that want to get rid of civil rights. so is the KKK.

So then it should be easy for you to find it in their words, not yours.

I don't think you are accurately representing the position of your adversaries here.

 

[UncleBuck]

So then it should be easy for you to find it in their words, not yours.

I don't think you are accurately representing the position of your adversaries here.

just ask them. desert dude and ginwilly both want to get rid of the civil rights act.

 

[SmokeyDan]

Libertarians want to allow corporations and private individuals to spew unlimited amounts of pollution onto their property, which affects my quality of life when it seeps into my drinking water. This is why people dislike the libertarian agenda.

We need government regulations.

No they don't.

You might find one person who said something like that who was also libertarian.

But that is not a libertarian position.

 

[MidwesternGro]

That's not true, a libertarian will say we don't want pollution so let's make a law against it and not allow it, a progressive will say we don't want pollution, so let's charge them for it, give that money over here to people we approve of and raise taxes to pay for the department of charging the polluters for the sake of the good guys.

I like the libertarian way better.

What would be the punishment for polluting if you outlaw it and don't allow it? How would you enforce the no pollution law?

 

[MidwesternGro]

No they don't.

You might find one person who said something like that who was also libertarian.

But that is not a libertarian position.

What is the libertarian position to stop people from polluting?

 

[ginwilly]

What would be the punishment for polluting if you outlaw it and don't allow it? How would you enforce the no pollution law?

Come on MWG, how do we enforce any law? We determine the severity of the crime and either fine or jail people according to standards. If you are Monsanto dumping into Lake Erie, it's worse to me than Joe's garage setting fire to tires.

 

[ginwilly]

What is the libertarian position to stop people from polluting?

First you have to stop thinking of groups as a singular. The biggest problem facing libertarians is the independent thinking. Getting them to all agree as a sect is as easy as herding cats. It's also what makes them appealing to independent thinkers.

Some libbers will tell you pollution is a local issue (where most big L libbers are), some will tell you it should not be allowed period, others still will agree with the awful cap and trade (although very few).

I could ask you what is the progressive stance on pollution and your answer would be both right and wrong.

 

[MidwesternGro]

Come on MWG, how do we enforce any law? We determine the severity of the crime and either fine or jail people according to standards. If you are Monsanto dumping into Lake Erie, it's worse to me than Joe's garage setting fire to tires.

How is that different from fining people or different from what we do today? You just admitted that we need government regulations.

 

[MidwesternGro]

First you have to stop thinking of groups as a singular. The biggest problem facing libertarians is the independent thinking. Getting them to all agree as a sect is as easy as herding cats. It's also what makes them appealing to independent thinkers.

Some libbers will tell you pollution is a local issue (where most big L libbers are), some will tell you it should not be allowed period, others still will agree with the awful cap and trade (although very few).

I could ask you what is the progressive stance on pollution and your answer would be both right and wrong.

So you have no solution. Good to know.

It also seems that libertarians have no unifying theme and that you are a pro government regulation libertarian, which is absurd.

 

[MidwesternGro]

Libertarians want to allow corporations and private individuals to spew unlimited amounts of pollution onto their property, which affects my quality of life when it seeps into my drinking water. This is why people dislike the libertarian agenda.

We need government regulations.

That's not true, a libertarian will say we don't want pollution so let's make a law against it and not allow it, a progressive will say we don't want pollution, so let's charge them for it, give that money over here to people we approve of and raise taxes to pay for the department of charging the polluters for the sake of the good guys.

I like the libertarian way better.

What would be the punishment for polluting if you outlaw it and don't allow it? How would you enforce the no pollution law?

Come on MWG, how do we enforce any law? We determine the severity of the crime and either fine or jail people according to standards. If you are Monsanto dumping into Lake Erie, it's worse to me than Joe's garage setting fire to tires.

ginwilly just refuted his own argument. You can't make this kind of stupid up.

 

[ginwilly]

ginwilly just refuted his own argument. You can't make this kind of stupid up.

If you think that, it's your stupidity that is called into question.

What is the progressive solution to pollution? I gave you what mine was that was in direct contrast to what you said I wanted. You claim to know what libertarians would do, was completely wrong in my case, can you claim the same with progressives?

 

[ginwilly]

So you have no solution. Good to know.

It also seems that libertarians have no unifying theme and that you are a pro government regulation libertarian, which is absurd.

Not regulations. Libertarians respect the rule of LAW. You seem to think (and other closed minded people here) that Somalia is a libertarian utopia. You equate libertarian to anarchy and then call others stupid. Not good alex.

 

[ginwilly]

How is that different from fining people or different from what we do today? You just admitted that we need government regulations.

Have you ever heard a libertarian say they don't believe in laws?

 

[SmokeyDan]

just ask them. desert dude and ginwilly both want to get rid of the civil rights act.

And neither of them have gone on to say they want to use that to harm people of color.

Your putting hate in places where it doesn't seem to exist.