A freedom movement is only possible in...

SmokeyDan

SmokeyDan

Well-Known Member
MidwesternGro said:
What is the libertarian position to stop people from polluting?
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I've not read a monolithic position.

In general, libertarians believe you can do as you like without affecting others.

Pollution affects us all and therefore it would be inconsistent with libertarian ideology to be cool with pollution.

If there are specific kinds of pollution that without doubt can be limited to the location polluted then there wouldn't necessarily be an issue with that.

I'm not sure I can think of that kind.

Can you point out to me what it is you think libertarians are saying pollution is fine?
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
MidwesternGro said:
So you have no solution. Good to know.

It also seems that libertarians have no unifying theme and that you are a pro government regulation libertarian, which is absurd.
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Didn't I give you MY solution? I can't speak for all libertarians.

Oh, the unifying theme is personal freedom and responsibility, is that the issue you have with them?
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
SmokeyDan said:
I've not read a monolithic position.

In general, libertarians believe you can do as you like without affecting others.

Pollution affects us all and therefore it would be inconsistent with libertarian ideology to be cool with pollution.

If there are specific kinds of pollution that without doubt can be limited to the location polluted then there wouldn't necessarily be an issue with that.

I'm not sure I can think of that kind.

Can you point out to me what it is you think libertarians are saying pollution is fine?
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Trying to explain an individualist platform to a collectivist is harder than I thought before joining RIU.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
SmokeyDan said:
And neither of them have gone on to say they want to use that to harm people of color.
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yes, let's make it legal to deny service to people because of their arbitrary skin color. i'm sure no harm will ever be caused.

history shows this, right?
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
ginwilly said:
Oh, the unifying theme is personal freedom and responsibility, is that the issue you have with them?
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my issue with "libertarians" like you is your blatant racism and refusal to learn from history.

hell, you even refuse to learn from present day reality.
 
SmokeyDan

SmokeyDan

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
yes, let's make it legal to deny service to people because of their arbitrary skin color. i'm sure no harm will ever be caused.

history shows this, right?
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In the past it was mostly state law mandating segregation.

If you repealed the civil rights act now (I'm not advocating this) states would not remandate segregation.

Even in small towns, even in the most racist part of the south, I don't see a problem.

A few reasons.

1) the racists aren't always the business owners.

2) there are usually multiple venues for any good or service

3) so even if one said no negros, the others still take them.

4) I don't think 0.001 percent of business owners or service providers would deny based on skin color or anything.

5) You've still not shown me where anyone said they want to repeal it to deny service to blacks. Is this more of your hysteria?
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
MidwesternGro said:
No. Most liberals like things like clean water and air, rights for minorities and women, and not allowing children to starve to death because they were born into an impoverished family.
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Most liberals endorse the use of initiated force and have a huge cognitive dissonance monkey on their back. Of course that makes them similar to the people that they think they are different from. Wrestling for who gets to hold the gun in the room, rather than getting rid of the gun....sad.

They claim to be peaceful, which is impossible if you endorse systems that forcefully redistribute the product of other peoples labor.

I challenge you to be more peaceful and adopt a non interventionist perspective, drop the idea that thru a coercive system which employs force as an integral aspect you can somehow wind up in a peaceful place.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
SmokeyDan said:
Liberals and conservatives to a lesser extent seem to have a major problem that libertarian people do not.

Each of those wants to enforce their respective agendas and sensitivities upon us all.

You'll never hear a social conservative say, I'm opposed to abortion at a personal level for religious reasons. But I'm fine with letting people choose.

You'll never hear a liberal say I really don't like that conservative Christians are against homosexuality, but I will let them conduct their affairs in their church as they see fit.

Each of these groups wants to legislate their own views on us all.

Libertarians, they say such things.
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I've heard conservatives and liberals say exactly those things.
 
MidwesternGro

MidwesternGro

Well-Known Member
ginwilly said:
I asked you a question after answering yours but you didn't offer me the same courtesy.

What is the progressives solution to stop people from polluting?
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Clean water and clean power acts, working on alternate sources of energy, opposing projects like the keystone pipeline, supporting liberal institutions like the Sierra Club.

You know, real world solutions that actually work.
 
desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
please point out the state laws mandating segregation at the lunch counters and gas stations and hotels.
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Google is the antidote to perpetuation of fascism and propaganda. Somebody needs to modify this wiki entry to say Unclebuck is a racist moron.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws
During the Reconstruction period of 1865–1877, federal law provided civil rights protection in the U.S. South for freedmen – the African Americans who had formerly been slaves. In the 1870s, Democrats gradually regained power in the Southern legislatures, having used insurgent paramilitary groups, such as the White League and Red Shirts, to disrupt Republican organizing, run Republican officeholders out of town, and intimidate blacks to suppress and discourage their voting. Extensive voter fraud was also used. Gubernatorial elections were close and disputed in Louisiana for years, with increasing violence against blacks during campaigns from 1868 on. In 1877, a national Democratic Party compromise to gain Southern support in the presidential election resulted in the government's withdrawing the last of the federal troops from the South. White Democrats had regained political power in every Southern state.[3] These conservative, white, Democratic Redeemer governments legislated Jim Crow laws, segregating black people from the white population.
 
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