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TonightYou

TonightYou

Well-Known Member
Amos Otis said:
Before I answer you, let me address two things you say:



That's a great sentiment, amigo, and shows me again that you're the good cat I've always suspected you to be. But there's a reality about the world now that people still can't, or won't see. Probably because once they accept the facts - believe it is real, and believe it is aimed for us - their world permanently changes.

The minds that you want to convince are powerless against the tyranny that rules them. You and I have never seen the horror in our front yards that these people live with everyday. The younger Muslims are in an ever growing state of 'go along, or be killed'. Or 'watch us brutally murder your children first'. It's the working definition of terrorism, and it works.

There's one thing you have to ponder before considering what actions are to be taken, stOw. What are the consequences of no action?

40,000 people on a mountain top would be mostly dead had no action been taken. Airstrikes have helped regain territory, but now the enemy responds with the beheading card. Losing a few thousand soldiers doesn't stop them - it just delays them. From moving north - and west - and east - and south. They've photographed and posted themselves in front of the White House and at the Lincoln Tunnel. They say they're serious. Do you believe them?

What are the consequences, ultimately, of no action? You tell me.
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Military sources said the number was actually much less, but nonetheless the situation is terrible. Even then, genocide happens every day, usually we shrug because their is no economic benefit most often or its the "other" to give a shit about. Part of it is framing "Christians stuck on a mountain" sounds so much better than "Muslims (kurds) stuck in mountains (which they are and have been spending years retreating from Saddam)."

I don't disagree with the statement of "the world is on fire", but I'd say it always has been, the question is to what degree?

St0w put it best, what really can we do but try to change hearts and minds? And that many people are subjected to this not by choice but by force, which anyone rational would say it's a terrible thing.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Amos Otis said:
Before I answer you, let me address two things you say:



That's a great sentiment, amigo, and shows me again that you're the good cat I've always suspected you to be. But there's a reality about the world now that people still can't, or won't see. Probably because once they accept the facts - believe it is real, and believe it is aimed for us - their world permanently changes.

The minds that you want to convince are powerless against the tyranny that rules them. You and I have never seen the horror in our front yards that these people live with everyday. The younger Muslims are in an ever growing state of 'go along, or be killed'. Or 'watch us brutally murder your children first'. It's the working definition of terrorism, and it works. These guys are wiping out entire villages and ethnic groups.

There's one thing you have to ponder before considering what actions are to be taken, stOw. What are the consequences of no action?

40,000 people on a mountain top would be mostly dead had no action been taken. Airstrikes have helped regain territory, but now the enemy responds with the beheading card. Losing a few thousand soldiers doesn't stop them - it just delays them. From moving north - and west - and east - and south. They've photographed and posted themselves in front of the White House and at the Lincoln Tunnel. They say they're serious. Do you believe them?

What are the consequences, ultimately, of no action? You tell me.
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You make some great points Amos. The honest answer to your question is: I don't know.

What I do know is the path we've taken is not working. I thinks it's been well established that you can't fight an ideology with conventional warfare. It doesn't work. It's like playing whack-a-mole with a chopstick.

You made reference above to the deplorable conditions that these people live in. The horrors that they witness. Why can't that be the impetus for change? If given a viable option, and the *right* kind of support from western nations maybe people would stand up to this? Maybe they would welcome our intervention and help instead of viewing us as evil?

Am I just being a limp wristed liberal?
 
TonightYou

TonightYou

Well-Known Member
Amos Otis said:
I'll put it to you, then: what are the consequences of taking no action?
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First off, I didn't say I wasn't for no action. I've actually shifted where I originally should on this. Often times, I don't believe we or others for the matter, do the right thing. In this instance, doing something is better than nothing.

I wish we didn't have to do something, but we did help make this mess. We are not the only ones, but we did throw over a terrible dictator who did terrible things, yet installed a terrible opposition limp government. To be honest, we owe it to the region not to leave a terrible power vacuum. Yet we haven't made great cases to the nation's that "support us", as just like the boy who cried wolf, we've talked a lot of shit (WMD anyone? I still remember the joke of a "mobile weapons lab" of a goddamn truck plastered for a week straight on tv).

Honestly, these are dangerous people who need to be stopped. But like any ideology, simply killing people won't stop it. Most "enemies" we've had since WW2 we've done well winning via economic development and slow progress (Vietnam anyone?)
 
TonightYou

TonightYou

Well-Known Member
Amos Otis said:
And now........let's all take a big hit of some weed !


bongsmilie

ahhhh....
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I'm smoking on fat Marty grape stomper. Does smell like grapes but kind of a let down. Not bad for one plant. Need to pop more of them but very slow plants and definitely not producers, at least how I ran her.

At least she will hold me over. I'm tired of hash, as much as I love it, I desire flowers
 
Amos Otis

Amos Otis

Well-Known Member
TonightYou said:
I'm smoking on fat Marty grape stomper. Does smell like grapes but kind of a let down. Not bad for one plant. Need to pop more of them but very slow plants and definitely not producers, at least how I ran her.

At least she will hold me over. I'm tired of hash, as much as I love it, I desire flowers
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2 Fat Grape Cheese [unsexed] just got plundered for clones, and have been very fast growers. Really looking forward to a girl - I hear from a good amigo it's pretty good. :weed:
 
TonightYou

TonightYou

Well-Known Member
Amos Otis said:
2 Fat Grape Cheese [unsexed] just got plundered for clones, and have been very fast growers. Really looking forward to a girl - I hear from a good amigo it's pretty good. :weed:
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Here's to hoping! Not bad, very indy in smoke. Definitely grape flavor and smell, as she cures she will probably get better. I'm definitely stoned. Truly a slow plant though, just about 10 weeks for a below average yield. Frosty as a snowman. I will run the other beans and hope it isn't the norm.

Eta: she was in only a one gallon but there are caveats. First off, her roots didn't even hold the soil like I'm use to, particularly for a month and a half veg. Second, its very rare to get less than an ounce a gallon... honestly if she is over a 18 grams I'd be shocked. She grew like a pole, and as I mentioned a very slow grower in all regards. Would be an excellent hash plant through
 
TonightYou

TonightYou

Well-Known Member
Pass it Around said:
We have our disagreements every once in a while, but the heads have rolled.
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Hardly, I don't see any of us being omnipotent nor having an answer to the question "where the fuck do we go from here?"

No reason to bash on anyone just because they disagree with ones viewpoint. You can disagree without being disagreeable. That's what's great about public debate, we are all on the same team yet trying to steer the ship all at the same time. Sometimes we may disagree, doesn't mean we don't want the same things. It's about getting there
 
TonightYou

TonightYou

Well-Known Member
Fuck, I'm high boys (and gals).

Anyways point being I do see your point by Amos, a while back I thought the same. Yet tone doesn't necessarily transfer through in writing particularly short hand and I'd rather ignore it than project or make assumptions. Besides he's usually more biting and witty when he wants to be. That I can respect.
 
OGEvilgenius

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Amos Otis said:
Really?

Have a look at 3 16 year old schoolgirls who are - I mean, were - non-Americans. I'm sure there must be a reason this is also the U.S.'s fault.



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The US supports these idiots. Provides them with what they need. It's well documented. Yet ignored almost universally (at least in North America). Why does the US support these types? Because they are useful political tools.

Ceasing to provide material aid to these types would go a long way towards weakening them. But it would weaken the position of the Military Industrial Complex in more ways than one. And it's not just about money. It's about keeping the middle east unstable because a united middle east is an actual threat to current hegemony.

Most Muslims do not endorse this kind of thing or even come close to it.
 
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