Soil with the most stable ph

[Extacie]

I recently switched to Roots and it looks like there is no lime/oyster shells, etc to help balance ph & i've been having all kinds of ph issues (mainly my fault due to shot ph meter) but I used to use FFOF with never phing nutes and never had issues like I am now.

So maybe FFOF would be best for this? Any others you all would suggest to experiment with?
I will start experimenting with adding lime myself soon, but need to find it in a powdered form.

If there is similar threads please redirect me. I could not find much when googling.

 

[anzohaze]

Powdered lime get at lowes or similar ffof has ph buffer in it but it comes out at like 5 on the ph scale out the bag and from my experience has alot of aphids n such roots is just good organic soil. You need to get your soild ready before use. So I dont member exactly how much lime per bag but when I first amended my soil I used like 2 good handfuls on 8 bags (1.5cubic ft) of soil and now I re use my soil I throw in prob .25-.5 cup. my soil number stay 6.5 put I also grow organics so tbat also is a big help w ph buffering

 

[az2000]

i've been having all kinds of ph issues (mainly my fault due to shot ph meter) .

How do you know you're having ph issues? In what way have you measured the soil ph?

Which nutrients did you use before, and now? (Couldn't tell if you used FF and now Roots?).

You might try backing off how much you feed. I switched to an organic'ish nutrient (Grow More Sea Grow) and had acidification. I started water-only every other watering and it improved greatly. Now I feed 50-75% every watering and things are much better. I'd say water once with water only, with significant runoff (50%), then begin feeding at a lower rate. But, I'm not an organic person so I don't know for sure.

I used to use GH Flora 3-part and thought you just look for burnt tips to know you're feeding the max. But, I guess organic nutrients are different.

Regarding dolomite, if you're thinking about top dressing it, it's going to take 10-14 days to affect the ph. As you said, the finer/powder it is, the better. If you can't find it powdery enough you can mash it into powder. Make a mortar/pestel out of a bowel and the rounded-end handle of a screwdriver. I'd say 2 Tbsp per gal of medium. I did a test on 8 different half-gal containers using 0 to 8 Tbsp/gal. The ph difference between 2 and 8 was only 0.2. So, I wouldn't worry about "how much." I don't think there's a critical difference between 1 and 3. (8 is an insane amount, I think. I wouldn't go that high. I just wanted to see how it affected ph. As far as a source of cal/mag, that's probably too much.).

If you're in a crisis with acidic soil (say, ph 5.0?), you can use hydrated lime for a quick fix. I did it when I first encountered my ph problem which was out of control because I wasn't watching for it. I did 1/2 tsp in 1.5 gal water, which made the water ph 10.2. I poured that in (with a lot of runoff). to immediately raise soil ph. Later that day I did 1 tsp in 1.5 gal which made the water ph 11.2. It was scary giving that strong/alkaline but it had no perceivable affect on the plant's health (other than raising the soil ph, which helped the plant). I was going to lose the plant anyway, so I figured what the heck. I ended up getting 4 oz from her and it's been the smoothest, stoniest I've produced so far.

Looking back on it, if I'd caught it earlier I think flushing only would have been sufficient, followed by reduced nute strength. Maybe flushing at that crisis stage would have been better. I'm just saying don't be afraid to use hydrated lime. A small amount once or twice isn't bad. If you don't have the luxury of waiting for dolomite to have an effect, and not sure it's too much nutes, that's an option.

 

[Dr. Who]

ROOTS organic original does contain ag lime.
If you feel you would like to add more, Add at the rate below or up the lime to 1 cup per 1.5 bag for more effect.

Add 1 handful Dolomite lime to 1 cubic foot (7.5 gallons) of your soil (roots).
You could add some oyster shell for added Ca if you feel so inclined. I rather like crab meal for the added Ca,N and P it shares. Crab meal contains chiten and that is a natural insecticide that helps inhibit soil born insects. 1/2 cup per cf.
Mix in very well, moisten soil.

Look around your area or on the net for POTTERS GOLD organic potting soil.
This soil is what I use for my Super soil base, and for starting. It is a water only soil good for 25-28 days be fore you have to use a nutrient. Best stuff ever.

 

[Extacie]

Powdered lime get at lowes or similar ffof has ph buffer in it but it comes out at like 5 on the ph scale out the bag and from my experience has alot of aphids n such roots is just good organic soil. You need to get your soild ready before use. So I dont member exactly how much lime per bag but when I first amended my soil I used like 2 good handfuls on 8 bags (1.5cubic ft) of soil and now I re use my soil I throw in prob .25-.5 cup. my soil number stay 6.5 put I also grow organics so tbat also is a big help w ph buffering

For sure thanks man, I just need to find some fine lime!! Seems like everywhere only carries pellets, but i'll order the lime soon.

How do you know you're having ph issues? In what way have you measured the soil ph?
I slowly poured ph adjusted water (netural - 7.0) through the soil then measured the runoff with the new meter I just bought & calibrated.

Which nutrients did you use before, and now? (Couldn't tell if you used FF and now Roots?).
Same nutrients, FF now and before - Only switched soil, as a friend suggested Roots.

You might try backing off how much you feed. I switched to an organic'ish nutrient (Grow More Sea Grow) and had acidification. I started water-only every other watering and it improved greatly. Now I feed 50-75% every watering and things are much better. I'd say water once with water only, with significant runoff (50%), then begin feeding at a lower rate. But, I'm not an organic person so I don't know for sure.
I actually haven't fed them at all. Maybe one or two plants - most were just fed beneficial teas (which I thought was ph adjusted correctly, but turns out last meter was shot)

So best bet to correct this is probably as you said, ph my water to say 6.5-7.0? Then water til approx. 50% runoff?
I suppose i'm not really that organic either with FF nutes - didn't realize they were synthetic til recently.

I used to use GH Flora 3-part and thought you just look for burnt tips to know you're feeding the max. But, I guess organic nutrients are different.
Interesting, that is good to know.

Regarding dolomite, if you're thinking about top dressing it, it's going to take 10-14 days to affect the ph. As you said, the finer/powder it is, the better. If you can't find it powdery enough you can mash it into powder. Make a mortar/pestel out of a bowel and the rounded-end handle of a screwdriver. I'd say 2 Tbsp per gal of medium. I did a test on 8 different half-gal containers using 0 to 8 Tbsp/gal. The ph difference between 2 and 8 was only 0.2. So, I wouldn't worry about "how much." I don't think there's a critical difference between 1 and 3. (8 is an insane amount, I think. I wouldn't go that high. I just wanted to see how it affected ph. As far as a source of cal/mag, that's probably too much.).
Awesome, thank you, that is really good to know.

If you're in a crisis with acidic soil (say, ph 5.0?), you can use hydrated lime for a quick fix. I did it when I first encountered my ph problem which was out of control because I wasn't watching for it. I did 1/2 tsp in 1.5 gal water, which made the water ph 10.2. I poured that in (with a lot of runoff). to immediately raise soil ph. Later that day I did 1 tsp in 1.5 gal which made the water ph 11.2. It was scary giving that strong/alkaline but it had no perceivable affect on the plant's health (other than raising the soil ph, which helped the plant). I was going to lose the plant anyway, so I figured what the heck. I ended up getting 4 oz from her and it's been the smoothest, stoniest I've produced so far.
Hell ya this is awesome, thank you! I would consider it a crisis which is why I posted. Ph of one is 5.0, another 5.1 - i'd say others are WAY off to, but I haven't checked all yet. So would using hydro lime be better than using my horticultural ph up and adjusting water then flushing? Sounds like it. How much lime would you suggest then? Crazy 1/2 tsp bumped yours up that much!

Looking back on it, if I'd caught it earlier I think flushing only would have been sufficient, followed by reduced nute strength. Maybe flushing at that crisis stage would have been better. I'm just saying don't be afraid to use hydrated lime. A small amount once or twice isn't bad. If you don't have the luxury of waiting for dolomite to have an effect, and not sure it's too much nutes, that's an option.
Awe, already answered some of my questions lol. Thank you so much, I really appreciate you taking the time to help out!!

ROOTS organic original does contain ag lime.
If you feel you would like to add more, Add at the rate below or up the lime to 1 cup per 1.5 bag for more effect.
Thanks man, I must of missed that. Original is mainly what i'm using too, thank you for the advice, I will do that when I have powdered lime.

Add 1 handful Dolomite lime to 1 cubic foot (7.5 gallons) of your soil (roots).
You could add some oyster shell for added Ca if you feel so inclined. I rather like crab meal for the added Ca,N and P it shares. Crab meal contains chiten and that is a natural insecticide that helps inhibit soil born insects. 1/2 cup per cf.
Mix in very well, moisten soil.
Very good info, I have been wanting to start looking into good add ons for my soil, and I do love roots, was just thinking about changing since the ph issues, but will def. add the lime and play around with it.

Look around your area or on the net for POTTERS GOLD organic potting soil.
This soil is what I use for my Super soil base, and for starting. It is a water only soil good for 25-28 days be fore you have to use a nutrient. Best stuff ever.
Hell ya that is awesome! I've been wanting to start looking into making super soils. Will have to look into this as well.
Thanks so much!!

 

[az2000]

So would using hydro lime be better than using my horticultural ph up and adjusting water then flushing? Sounds like it. How much lime would you suggest then? Crazy 1/2 tsp bumped yours up that much!

Feeding at high ph affects the soil because the ppm of the solution is high, making it harder to change the ph. You see this when you have to add a tsp of ph-up to move nutrient water similarly as just 3-4 drops in pure, low-ph water. I think this is better for when you know you have a tendency to go acidic, and you feed higher ph as a preventative measure (when you see it starting to turn acidic, or just as a matter of practice when you have it dialed in, nothing's changing, and you don't have to monitor your soil ph.). If your soil is acidic from overfeeding organic nutrients, you need to cut back on nutes which would make the high-ph water less buffered, less durable against the soil.

Seems like right now your choice is to do the customary 3x-volume flush (being water only, it won't matter much if you ph it). Or, use hydrated lime. The question is whether you believe the problem is built up salts. If you're not sure, you could do a little of both (which is what I did when I was caught by a surprise acidity problem). Mix 1/2 tsp/gal hydrated lime, a quantity sufficient to get get 100% runoff. Say, 2-3 gallons for a 3gal container. The ph will be 10.2, but because it's not well buffered, it's not going to be like pouring high-ph nutrients into the soil. This is more about getting the fine lime particles in there to continue imparting their alkalinity.

You have a few plants. If you want to hone your knowledge you could try different things on different plants. Continue feeding at higher ph; flush-only followed by mild nutes; 1/2 tsp/gal h-lime; 1 tsp/gal h-lime.

In all cases, you want to start getting that dolomite lime into the soil. Cultivate 1 tsp/gal powdered d-lime (per gallon of medium) into the top soil using a kitchen fork. Rake it in about 1/2" deep, being careful of the roots. Do that 2-3 times (next 2-3 waterings).

I'm not optimistic about the effect of d-lime applied this way. It takes awhile to work its way into the soil. It creates uneven ph zones (I've read). But, you don't have a lot of options so I'd use this too. The sooner the better because of how long it takes.

The other thing you can do is foliar feed to keep the plants going while the soil is locked out. You have to use your own judgement about what to feed (I did a mix of fish emulsion, kelp, epsom salt, mild bloom nutes). You have to weigh the risk of bud rot if flowers are present, or take steps to reduce the risk (fans to accelerate drying). Keep plants out of strong light because water drops focus the light and burn leaves.

Be sure you let the soil dry well between waterings. The soil's ph rises as it dries. If you keep it too wet you'll cap the plant's exposure to higher ph (at least brief exposure).

 

[Dr. Who]

^^^ Hydrated lime is NOT good for growing! You should not use!^^^

OP,You metered the run off? All you got was the pH of the run off, NOT of the soil!
pH everything ingoing to 6.5 and forget the soil pH.

3x volume flush will cause more problems.....Flushing is for toilets!