What if the cops story is true?

[NoDrama]

Even though all the cops/private security guys I know spend more time at the range than anyone else I know....

Cops shoot way less than you think, the majority of police only shoot enough to qualify, a couple hundred rounds a year. I buy used police carry guns and resell them on may occasions, the guns are worn from carry, but almost none of them are worn from shooting, many of these pistols are 6-10 years old and have only a thousand rounds down the pipe.

 

[Ceepea]

Cops shoot way less than you think, the majority of police only shoot enough to qualify, a couple hundred rounds a year. I buy used police carry guns and resell them on may occasions, the guns are worn from carry, but almost none of them are worn from shooting, many of these pistols are 6-10 years old and have only a thousand rounds down the pipe.

Ahh, so you've sold some barely used guns from the police force in one geographic area and therefore the majority of cops everywhere hardly get any range time.

Nice.

 

[desert dude]

Should have shot him in the legs. Once.

Not center mass shots 6 times.

If you want to see how police SHOULD act just look at myriad European countries. Take Sweden for example, guy with 2 knives evading police and running down the street. Cops with weapons drawn command him to stop an lay down his weapons, guy didn't comply and got popped in the knee. Down he went, and 5 cops tackled him.

I wish to point out that Mr. Brown was hit in the right arm four times. What a surprise, it didn't seem to stop him.

 

[Ceepea]

I wish to point out that Mr. Brown was hit in the right arm four times. What a surprise, it didn't seem to stop him.

Was that before or after he was shot in the head and chest? The order that the rounds hit makes a big difference.

Unless we know the order, your point is useless.

Maybe he took one in the bean first and was dropping when the other rounds hit him. Speculation at best, and it does nothing to change the fact that an unarmed man was killed.

The punishment didn't fit the crime.

This is how well trained, competent LEO's stop someone who is threatening, but not threatening anyone's life.

If this was the USA, they would have shot him in the chest most likely.

 

[Ceepea]

LOL! You think the average cop can hit a moving person in the knee with the first shot?

Maybe not the first.... but can they hit him? Yes.

Poland.

 

[Ceepea]

Australia.

 

[desert dude]

Was that before or after he was shot in the head and chest? The order that the rounds hit makes a big difference.

Unless we know the order, your point is useless.

Maybe he took one in the bean first and was dropping when the other rounds hit him. Speculation at best, and it does nothing to change the fact that an unarmed man was killed.

The punishment didn't fit the crime.

This is how well trained, competent LEO's stop someone who is threatening, but not threatening anyone's life.

If this was the USA, they would have shot him in the chest most likely.

According to the news he was shot in the arm and the head.

 

[Ceepea]

According to the news he was shot in the arm and the head.

He was shot in the arm 4 times, once in the top of the head, and once just above the right eyebrow.

2 in the head, 4 in the right arm/hand.

 

[Ceepea]

If getting punched in the face makes you lose your composure enough to think it's ok to murder someone who's fleeing, you shouldn't be in a position to have that option.

 

[desert dude]

If getting punched in the face makes you lose your composure enough to think it's ok to murder someone who's fleeing, you shouldn't be in a position to have that option.

If that is what happened, I agree with you. Is that what happened? From what I have read in the news, by no means everything, your account might or might not be accurate.

As a practical matter, though, my advice to you is to refrain from assaulting a person who is armed and has the authority to kill you.

 

[Ceepea]

If that is what happened, I agree with you. Is that what happened? From what I have read in the news, by no means everything, your account might or might not be accurate.

As a practical matter, though, my advice to you is to refrain from assaulting a person who is armed and has the authority to kill you.

I agree. I wouldn't have done that, because I'm not a thief or a 'renegade' that feels the need to clash with the police.

I guess that's the real problem I have, I understand their need to protect themselves and others and how the use of deadly force is justified in some situations. What I don't understand is how there is such a broad spectrum of things that constitute the need for deadly force. Either you have to kill someone to stop them from hurting you, or others, or you don't.

Someone who robbed a store by literally pushing a small man out of the way, and was totally unarmed, doesn't warrant deadly force.

IMO, unless you're almost positive that the perp is going to immediately harm someone else, (mass murder, serial killer, etc., etc.,) if they're fleeing and are unarmed, you should try to kill the perp.

 

[desert dude]

I agree. I wouldn't have done that, because I'm not a thief or a 'renegade' that feels the need to clash with the police.

I guess that's the real problem I have, I understand their need to protect themselves and others and how the use of deadly force is justified in some situations. What I don't understand is how there is such a broad spectrum of things that constitute the need for deadly force. Either you have to kill someone to stop them from hurting you, or others, or you don't.

Someone who robbed a store by literally pushing a small man out of the way, and was totally unarmed, doesn't warrant deadly force.

IMO, unless you're almost positive that the perp is going to immediately harm someone else, (mass murder, serial killer, etc., etc.,) if they're fleeing and are unarmed, you should try to kill the perp.

Do you know that more people are killed by fists every year in the US than are killed by rifles? That is a fact, though I am not going to give a citation.

So, when a guy who is 6'4" tall and weighs 270 pounds punches you in the face, and tries to snatch your gun from its holster, what is a reasonable response? Personally, I would shoot him and I would keep shooting him until he gave up the fight either by dying or surrendering. So far, it looks like that is what the cop did.

If the guy was fleeing, then you have a legitimate point. However, as a cop, you have a duty to not let a violent felon get away and invade a neighborhood of innocent people. What if this 270 pound crazy person kills an innocent bystander a block away after you let him escape?

According to the cop, Mr. Brown was charging toward him. That account is contradicted by Mr.Brown's strong-arm robbery accomplice. Which account do you believe?

At the moment, there is not enough information to claim that Mr. Brown was murdered. Before parroting the "innocent gentle giant was murdered" meme, I think it is prudent to wait until more facts emerge; it might save you from looking foolish.

 

[UncleBuck]

it's funny how certain members of this forum regale in pointing out that this kid (may have) took a box of cigars, but those same members make not one peep about how their white supremacist buddy sirgreenthumb is a thief or their racist buddy donalejandro is a thief.

only seems to be worth pointing out endlessly if the thief is a dead black kid that they want to smear.

just an observation.

 

[UncleBuck]

That is a fact, though I am not going to give a citation.

you won't give citation because it is not a fact.

According to the cop, Mr. Brown was charging toward him. That account is contradicted by Mr.Brown's strong-arm robbery accomplice. Which account do you believe?

you forgot that dorian johnson's account is echoed by three other witnesses with no connection to brown or johnson, moron.

 

[Ceepea]

Do you know that more people are killed by fists every year in the US than are killed by rifles? That is a fact, though I am not going to give a citation.

If you're getting beaten that's one thing, you don't know how far the person is going to go. If you get punched and the person flees, that's another. Don't pretend the two are the same. "Dying" from fists, 99.9999999999% isn't going to be from a solitary hit.

So, when a guy who is 6'4" tall and weighs 270 pounds punches you in the face, and tries to snatch your gun from its holster, what is a reasonable response? Personally, I would shoot him and I would keep shooting him until he gave up the fight either by dying or surrendering. So far, it looks like that is what the cop did.

Not really. The guy was shot from far away, as there were no powder marks on his shirt or body.

If the guy was fleeing, then you have a legitimate point. However, as a cop, you have a duty to not let a violent felon get away and invade a neighborhood of innocent people.
What if this 270 pound crazy person kills an innocent bystander a block away after you let him escape?

It's not a cops job to presume to know the minds of criminals, and dish out punishment based on what they MIGHT do. Your point is just ridiculous.

Lets start roadside executions of people drinking and driving because they might kill someone behind the wheel too.

According to the cop, Mr. Brown was charging toward him. That account is contradicted by Mr.Brown's strong-arm robbery accomplice. Which account do you believe?

Tough call. The guy who is covering his ass after shooting an unarmed man, or the friend of the murder victim.....

Why would the guy hit him run away, and then run back at him? That sounds absolutely ridiculous.

At the moment, there is not enough information to claim that Mr. Brown was murdered. Before parroting the "innocent gentle giant was murdered" meme, I think it is prudent to wait until more facts emerge; it might save you from looking foolish.

The guy wasn't innocent or gentle. He was a douche bag who robbed a (presumed) honest storekeeper. I guess being a thief and douche bag gives the cops authority to gun you down. Who knew?

 

[desert dude]

it's funny how certain members of this forum regale in pointing out that this kid (may have) took a box of cigars, but those same members make not one peep about how their white supremacist buddy sirgreenthumb is a thief or their racist buddy donalejandro is a thief.

only seems to be worth pointing out endlessly if the thief is a dead black kid that they want to smear.

just an observation.

Strong armed robbery is just a tad more serious than theft. One is a property crime, the other is a violent crime. When you commit a violent crime you are likely to suffer a violent, and justified, response.

That is not why Mr. Brown got shot though. He got shot because he assaulted a cop and tried to liberate the cop's gun. The first violent crime, captured on video, simply makes the claim of the second violent crime much more plausible.

 

[UncleBuck]

why did the store keeper not report a robbery though?

 

[Ceepea]

Strong armed robbery is just a tad more serious than theft. One is a property crime, the other is a violent crime. When you commit a violent crime you are likely to suffer a violent, and justified, response.

"Violent"...

He pushed the guy, then walked towards him. Not a nice gesture, but hardly the epitome of a violent offender.

That is not why Mr. Brown got shot though. He got shot because he assaulted a cop and tried to liberate the cop's gun. The first violent crime, captured on video, simply makes the claim of the second violent crime much more plausible.

Do you not understand that police are not judges?

 

[UncleBuck]

Strong armed robbery is just a tad more serious than theft. One is a property crime, the other is a violent crime. When you commit a violent crime you are likely to suffer a violent, and justified, response.

That is not why Mr. Brown got shot though. He got shot because he assaulted a cop and tried to liberate the cop's gun. The first violent crime, captured on video, simply makes the claim of the second violent crime much more plausible.

if this was such an outrageous felonious robbery, why did the store keeper not bother to even report it?

why do you have nothing bad to say about sirgreenthumb, who fully admitted to robbing people violently?

ditto donalejandro. he broke into people's properties to rob them. that can get you shot quicker than anything. yet you made not a peep about that thief.

why the glaring double standard there?



just kidding, i know why.

 

[desert dude]

"Violent"...

He pushed the guy, then walked towards him. Not a nice gesture, but hardly the epitome of a violent offender.



Do you not understand that police are not judges?

Do you not understand that all of us have a right to self defense, even cops. Who said anything about judges?