12/12 From Seed Experiment - 21 Strains

[Fiveleafsleft]

The coco im using is this:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003MOD2HY

I have a lot of coarse perlite in there too tho...about 60% coco 40% perlite

I've never heard of that brand. Don't know if it's because i'm in europe.. But googling around don't give me much info either. The same brand also sells coco-fiber doormats. Lets hope its not the same fibers they are using for both purposes.. The process of washing out the salts from coco is pretty time consuming. Fibers should be bathing in water for several months etc. Low quality coco can contain pretty much salts... You really should invest in EC-meter it's the only way to tell. But the fact that you burnt your seedlings with seedling-doses of nutrition raises questions, especially since your water is so relatively soft. Maybe you should follow the flushing procedure AK was suggesting after all. I don't think there is any buffering to wash away, anyways.

Your Coco coir could be just fine, and even if there is some salts you will be fine if you have some runoff. But you won't be able to give them as much nutes - especially not in the beginning.. Canna And Botanicare are top contenders. Ive tried B'cuzz bounce, Canna cogro, and Canna pro plus. The two former ones left salts in runoff, especially b'cuzz. CAnna pro plus is almost totally clean, which is strange considering how powerful the buffering seem to be. It also contains tricoderma. I'm not selling anything here, and like to say that many people prefer botanicare, and that there probably is several good brands out there. Though i do believe that the pre-moistured once, often are better than the compressed ones.

About perlite, it's not really necessary with coco, since coco holds enough air by it self. Not entirely sure about this, but I also do think some perlite will raise PH of your runoff, since it's closer to 7 than than 6.. I don't think it's harmful or anything just somthing to be aware of if you are checking runoff PH..

 

[akhiymjames]

I bet those are good products Five but remember your in Europe so I don't know if we can get those over here.

You should be fine bro just keep feeding and get the runoff. If you order that coco again maybe you need to soak it in ph'd water before using it but long as you don't see any deficiencies your fine

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

Day 18 Update

Ladies are looking great after this morning's feed. Not much else to report so I'll just post some pictures.

Barneys Farm Seeds Critical Kush - KC Brains Northern Lights Special
These are the same two I will post daily...#11 on the left and #7 on the right.




Barneys Farm Seeds Top Dawg




Connoisseur Genetics Seeds East Coast Sour Diesel Haze Side




Connoisseur Genetics Seeds East Coast Sour Diesel Haze Top

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

I've never heard of that brand. Don't know if it's because i'm in europe.. But googling around don't give me much info either. The same brand also sells coco-fiber doormats. Lets hope its not the same fibers they are using for both purposes.. The process of washing out the salts from coco is pretty time consuming. Fibers should be bathing in water for several months etc. Low quality coco can contain pretty much salts... You really should invest in EC-meter it's the only way to tell. But the fact that you burnt your seedlings with seedling-doses of nutrition raises questions, especially since your water is so relatively soft. Maybe you should follow the flushing procedure AK was suggesting after all. I don't think there is any buffering to wash away, anyways.

Your Coco coir could be just fine, and even if there is some salts you will be fine if you have some runoff. But you won't be able to give them as much nutes - especially not in the beginning.. Canna And Botanicare are top contenders. Ive tried B'cuzz bounce, Canna cogro, and Canna pro plus. The two former ones left salts in runoff, especially b'cuzz. CAnna pro plus is almost totally clean, which is strange considering how powerful the buffering seem to be. It also contains tricoderma. I'm not selling anything here, and like to say that many people prefer botanicare, and that there probably is several good brands out there. Though i do believe that the pre-moistured once, often are better than the compressed ones.

About perlite, it's not really necessary with coco, since coco holds enough air by it self. Not entirely sure about this, but I also do think some perlite will raise PH of your runoff, since it's closer to 7 than than 6.. I don't think it's harmful or anything just somthing to be aware of if you are checking runoff PH..

I'm afraid I probably got average or below quality...a real shame if I did. I spent 3 days washing it 3 separate times so I'm not too terrible worried about it. The fact my run off is still brown is bothersome but all my waterings will now have run off so it should be alright.

Regarding perlite, I'll track down the guy who did a nice side by side. 100% coco, 90/10 and 70/30 if my memory serves. 100% coco yielded the least, 90/10 came in 2nd and 70/30 came in top...30% more yield than 100% coco if I recall. I'll try and find the journal for you.

Edit: Here is one of the journals...not the one I was thinking about but this was the 2nd one I had read and made notes about:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=108257
Scan to page 4 to see the guys results.

 

[akhiymjames]

They def look good and 1/4-1/2 half strength should be fine for them. Keep them nice and green and next time go for a better coco. Roots Organic has some, Canna, CYCO, and many more.

 

[Fiveleafsleft]

They def look good and 1/4-1/2 half strength should be fine for them. Keep them nice and green and next time go for a better coco. Roots Organic has some, Canna, CYCO, and many more.

AK. I think there is a missunderstanding here.. The guy is talking about 1/4 strength of Seedling-strength, which basically is 1/16 of flowering strength.. they are definitely big enoygh to handle 0-8 - 1.0 EC or close to half strength of full strength. IF that is a problem the coco really is very salty... Coco should be inert and treated just like hydro or rockwool slabs.. If it's not a misunderstanding i can only say, each to his own.. At east the to "advisers" agree on that you should up it up, in steps and watch the plants carefully, so as long as you do that the "different opinions?" doen't really matter.

Love to you all!

 

[Fiveleafsleft]

Day 18 Update

Ladies are looking great after this morning's feed. Not much else to report so I'll just post some pictures.

Barneys Farm Seeds Critical Kush - KC Brains Northern Lights Special
These are the same two I will post daily...#11 on the left and #7 on the right.

View attachment 3252807


Barneys Farm Seeds Top Dawg
View attachment 3252808



Connoisseur Genetics Seeds East Coast Sour Diesel Haze Side
View attachment 3252810
Beautiful plants and setup! will be nice to see how your different genetics will perform!
How did you chose the contenders?




Connoisseur Genetics Seeds East Coast Sour Diesel Haze Top
View attachment 3252811


View attachment 3252812
View attachment 3252813

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

AK. I think there is a missunderstanding here.. The guy is talking about 1/4 strength of Seedling-strength, which basically is 1/16 of flowering strength.. they are definitely big enoygh to handle 0-8 - 1.0 EC or close to half strength of full strength. IF that is a problem the coco really is very salty... Coco should be inert and treated just like hydro or rockwool slabs.. If it's not a misunderstanding i can only say, each to his own.. At east the to "advisers" agree on that you should up it up, in steps and watch the plants carefully, so as long as you do that the "different opinions?" doen't really matter.

Love to you all!

I suppose the only way to know where the line is is by stepping over it. I will begin gradually increasing until there is a problem.

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

I think within the next week I am going to remove some of these. Oddly, almost all of the plants in the 3" pots are doing better than the 4" ones. Maybe just a coincidence.
Most of the strains have (1) in 3" and (2) in 4". Considering removing the weaker of the two in the 4" pots to make the experiment more manageable.

 

[Fiveleafsleft]

I think within the next week I am going to remove some of these. Oddly, almost all of the plants in the 3" pots are doing better than the 4" ones. Maybe just a coincidence.
Most of the strains have (1) in 3" and (2) in 4". Considering removing the weaker of the two in the 4" pots to make the experiment more manageable.

Could it be that the smaller pots have been better flushed? I would have waited with removal of plants, until issues with over crowding? But Since "I" in this case is very theoretical, I don't have to water or manage the plants in any other way..

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

Could it be that the smaller pots have been better flushed? I would have waited with removal of plants, until issues with over crowding? But Since "I" in this case is very theoretical, I don't have to water or manage the plants in any other way..

Smaller pots being better flushed seems like the most logical reason. They just don't hold anywhere near the amount of water. In order to justify the 4" pots, they will have to yield 78% more than the 3" pots. To me, at this point, this seems extremely unlikely.

In the event I attempt to transplant a few of these from the 4" pots down to the 3" pots, do you have any suggestions or tips? I've never downsized a transplant.

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

Could it be that the smaller pots have been better flushed? I would have waited with removal of plants, until issues with over crowding? But Since "I" in this case is very theoretical, I don't have to water or manage the plants in any other way..

A comment on over-crowding. In these pots, overcrowding is just going to be an issue no matter what. I have no intention of spacing the pots out as it would completely defeat the purpose of the experiment. That being said, it could be way too early for me to start cheering the 3" pots and frown on the 4" ers

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

Could it be that the smaller pots have been better flushed? I would have waited with removal of plants, until issues with over crowding? But Since "I" in this case is very theoretical, I don't have to water or manage the plants in any other way..

I guess to confirm, I need to very aggressively water the 4" pots today to get really good run-off. I'll do this and then monitor for a few days before I make any decisions.

 

[akhiymjames]

AK. I think there is a missunderstanding here.. The guy is talking about 1/4 strength of Seedling-strength, which basically is 1/16 of flowering strength.. they are definitely big enoygh to handle 0-8 - 1.0 EC or close to half strength of full strength. IF that is a problem the coco really is very salty... Coco should be inert and treated just like hydro or rockwool slabs.. If it's not a misunderstanding i can only say, each to his own.. At east the to "advisers" agree on that you should up it up, in steps and watch the plants carefully, so as long as you do that the "different opinions?" doen't really matter.

Love to you all!

No bro I think your misunderstanding what ive been saying. I've been telling him to feed at 1/4-1/2 strength of what the feeding chart is telling him. There's no way the side of his plants can take full strength nutes right now. They will be stunted and could potentially die. That's why he had stunted growth in the beginning because he gave them full strength nutes of what the chart says. Not talking about the strength of the seedling.

He has no ec or ppm meter so therefore be can't measure the ec/ppm of the water he's giving them. With him not having one there's no way to tell how much is in a full strength feed so it best to start off low and work up.

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

No bro I think your misunderstanding what ive been saying. I've been telling him to feed at 1/4-1/2 strength of what the feeding chart is telling him. There's no way the side of his plants can take full strength nutes right now. They will be stunted and could potentially die. That's why he had stunted growth in the beginning because he gave them full strength nutes of what the chart says. Not talking about the strength of the seedling.

He has no ec or ppm meter so therefore be can't measure the ec/ppm of the water he's giving them. With him not having one there's no way to tell how much is in a full strength feed so it best to start off low and work up.

I actually have a PPM meter I can use...just nothing that measures EC. When I mixed the nutes yesterday at full strength on the seedling schedule (before I diluted down to 2/3rd strength), we came in at just shy of 500 ppm. My tap water is at about 170 ppm.

 

[Fiveleafsleft]

No bro I think your misunderstanding what ive been saying. I've been telling him to feed at 1/4-1/2 strength of what the feeding chart is telling him. There's no way the side of his plants can take full strength nutes right now. They will be stunted and could potentially die. That's why he had stunted growth in the beginning because he gave them full strength nutes of what the chart says. Not talking about the strength of the seedling.

He has no ec or ppm meter so therefore be can't measure the ec/ppm of the water he's giving them. With him not having one there's no way to tell how much is in a full strength feed so it best to start off low and work up.

No problem bro, I think we are misunderstanding each other... I f you look at the charts you can se that the feeding that is recommended in early veg is only a quarter of what is recommended in full bloom. http://www.blueplanetnutrients.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=73&Itemid=113

My point is that even if they recommend a higher dosage than optimal, 1/16 of "the recomended dose in bloom" (one quarter of 1/4 is 1/16) has to be on the very low end, even for seedlings.

I use Canna, and they recommend half of full strength for seedlings over a week old. (EC 0.9 instead of 1,

Peace.

 

[Fiveleafsleft]

I actually have a PPM meter I can use...just nothing that measures EC. When I mixed the nutes yesterday at full strength on the seedling schedule (before I diluted down to 2/3rd strength), we came in at just shy of 500 ppm. My tap water is at about 170 ppm.

Very good! ppm and EC both measures electrical conductivity, just on different scales. 500 ppm = EC 0.714. So that's not high at all. they should easely be able to handle a ppm of 750-900 ppm given that your coco isn't very salty. if you water a plant very slowly and catch the runoff, you can measure that runoff to get an idea. You don't want the runoff to be much higher than the feeding you give them.

 

[Fiveleafsleft]

I still don't rthink you should to up the dosage more than maximum 150 ppm at the time..

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

Lights come on in 10 minutes. I'm going to do a feed with a lot of run-off.
This feed is 100% strength at the seedling schedule which happens to be 50% strength at the Week 3 veg schedule.

Tentatively, I am planning on watering with nutes every other day and slowly increasing.
I'm waiting the suggested 30 minutes after using PH down and I will take a PH reading and a PPM reading before I water. I will also measure the run off for both PH and PPM and will report back.

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

Very good! ppm and EC both measures electrical conductivity, just on different scales. 500 ppm = EC 0.714. So that's not high at all. they should easely be able to handle a ppm of 750-900 ppm given that your coco isn't very salty. if you water a plant very slowly and catch the runoff, you can measure that runoff to get an idea. You don't want the runoff to be much higher than the feeding you give them.

I did not know you can calculate EC from PPM. Genius!