TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
never heard of reverse nutes??
Any one part nutes that are good for DWC?
- Thread starter farmasensist
- Start date
It doesn't turn a male into a female, but can stop a plant from hermi. www.dutchmaster.com.au/?language=english&page=product&product=GOLD_RANGE_REVERSE
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
thanks ill look it up..unfortunatly i live in the middle of nowere in the up of mi so everything i buy is over the internet and get it delivered so by the time id get it it would probably to late for the original mom/male but i can get it for the clone..never used it before have u had success with it? also if used on seeds will it give you more females? right now for every 10 seeds planted i get 2-3 males...ive read up on it and as long as your ph is right and youre useing blue spectrum cfl or mh i use mh,higher nitrogen or grow nutes i use G.H. maxigro and an 18/6 light sced plants determine their sex between the 3rd and 4th set of true leaves..of course we/i dont know the sex till ive matured the plant and put in flowering for around 2 weeks so its like 7 weeks to detyermine sex on each seed i sprout as its 4 weeks minimum to be mature and i usually go longer so more like6 weeks to mature and 2 weeks in flower so 8 weeks per seed and if its a male i just waited a month and took clones just to throw it all away..i think 7-8 out of 10 females is a pretty good % but still every male was being wasted till i started breeding so everything i plant is a landrace or stabilized hybrid right now so even good males are used to create my own f1 hybrids...in the last ten years of breeding i think the best cross i made was 2 months ago, i crossed a BCBD fire og bx3 male with a mr.nice seeds shit, i call it the fire shit its done in 8 weeks so 1 week earlier than the fire og yet it kept the crystal production of the fire and the yield potential and structure from the shit mom..so far ive planted 4 of the seeds 3 were females all damn near identica but i kept the best 1 cloned it and ended up getting 1/2 lb dry weight out of 20 plants in one meter squared. 250g/m2..ever wonder when u buy seeds how it sais 500g/m2 or somthing like that, it must be before its dried because i have never gotten 500 grams in a meter squared thats over a pound per meter, the best ive ever gotten was 348grams per meter squared whats yer best??
never used it. but ive read good things about it for plants that are NOT full on males. must be used with DM saturator also mixed with the reverse per their website. DutchMaster is based in Australia and does their testing on cannabis also. really good clean pharmaceutical high grade stuff.
i dont usually weigh my product exactly when its done growing. i just get a ballpark figure, usually it starts going one way or another before its all fully trimmed and cured. but i know when i was growing 16 plants under a 1k in a 5x5 space, i want to say i probably got around 1LB or so. but i noticed when i cut down to 4 plants in bigger pots yield stayed about the same, and it was easier to maintain. id say average in soil maybe a pound per 1k overall every 2 months. a lot of other factors came into play. i think with DWC with the right strain i should be able to pull a pound every 1 month instead of every 2. running 4 plants per bucket and harvesting a bucket a month. 2 buckets under a 1k. so i guess in theory that would be 2 pounds per 1k. which is basically a gram per watt approximately. i dont think its out of the question. time will tell though.
i dont usually weigh my product exactly when its done growing. i just get a ballpark figure, usually it starts going one way or another before its all fully trimmed and cured. but i know when i was growing 16 plants under a 1k in a 5x5 space, i want to say i probably got around 1LB or so. but i noticed when i cut down to 4 plants in bigger pots yield stayed about the same, and it was easier to maintain. id say average in soil maybe a pound per 1k overall every 2 months. a lot of other factors came into play. i think with DWC with the right strain i should be able to pull a pound every 1 month instead of every 2. running 4 plants per bucket and harvesting a bucket a month. 2 buckets under a 1k. so i guess in theory that would be 2 pounds per 1k. which is basically a gram per watt approximately. i dont think its out of the question. time will tell though.
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
are you saying a pound after dried and cured?? ive never weighed the buds before trimmed and dry but id say they are at least 50% heavier before dry...i just started critical mass and my hopes are to get 500g/m2 even though it says you can get up to 750g/m2, i think if i get 500 itll be my best ever..maybe because soil can have bigger plants? my plants average around 3 feet tall at harvest..good luck on your grows wing!! thanks for the info to.
dried not cured. the plants i'd grow in soil were scrogged and vegged for a solid 2 months. if they werent scrogged they'd have been 7 feet tall. all about pot size. big pots = big roots = big weight. thats why i think dwc in the same space will yield at least twice as much once dialed in, because theres at least 3 times as much roots. a pound is only 448 grams, so under a 1k thats achievable. .5g a watt. but i find those charts that come with the seed to be general information and usually just there to give you a general direction ballpark figure as to where the plant yields if that.. you know if you have one that says 200g indoor yield. its a small yielder. one that says 400-500.. probalby a middle yielder. one that says 750, probably a big yielder. i wouldnt hold on so tightly to the exact numbers. when i yielded that high i had supplemental flouroscent tube lighting on the sides also. just a couple 2 bulb shop lights, nothing special.
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
you seem to be doing very well,, my dwc is more of a sog style as i only veg for a week or 2 depending on the stretch of the plant... hope to get pics of my grow up soon.
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
does any one know what are the benafits to an f4 seed over an f1. are f4 seeds stabilized? more uniform?
im only half way thru my second round of DWC ever. i felt i had achieved what i consider expert status in soil growing. many different styles and approaches were achieved. i had it dialed to where i would only go in 1-2 times a week. i started neglecting my garden because i was bored with it. so i decided it was time for a new challenge. i think ive done well in DWC minus ive had root problems due to pathogens. i tried several different methods of running a sterile reservoir and always ended up getting slime sooner or later (the slime that thrives in a cool,dark, aerated enviroment. aka ideal conditions for dwc). my first round was a single cherry pie plant that suffered the most because it was uprooted from soilt where it was already stressed/neglected to begin with. then it took the abuse of me getting into feeding with a new method. having to adjust PH and learn what PPM's were best and when. i also experienced cal-mag deficiencies. so by the time the cherry pie hit flower it was already at a major disadvantage. and it got slimed half way thru flower again knocking out nearly all its roots for like the 3rd time. its one week from harvest, i think im only going to pull an ounce. but its fire. even though its quality, its a failure in my book.
my 2nd round which is a month behind was rooted pretty well in veg. blue dream clone. 2nd week of flower it got hit by the slime and killed pretty much all of its roots as well. 2 weeks later the roots are barely getting back to where they were. so its definitely stunted, which sucks because i had high expectations for this one. i have a lot of bud sites and i think itll yield better than cherry pie but still no where near full potential.
my 3rd round that is in its final week of veg (going into flower when the cherry pie is harvested) is so far my cream of the crop. i decided to up the number of plants per bucket from 1 to 4. these ladies are huge. bigger already than blue dream is even now (these are GDP, notorious for being short/squat slow veggers, so the fact that they're all bigger than a sativa dominant BLUE Dream that is known to stretch is saying a lot. not only that, the roots on these ladies are ROBUST! each plant has probably at least 4x the root length and mass that the blue dream in flower has. they're drinking about a gallon a day out of my veg res. i wont have access to a camera for a few days, but next monday i'll be updating my grow log with current pics as they move into the flower chamber under the 1k.
i only am giving the plants in dwc now 1 month veg, and already they are bigger than my soil plants that used to have 2 months. not only that they have way healthier roots. if i can keep these roots healthy i am 100% certain i will pull a monster yield from them.
I'm not worried about the slime anymore, ive been brewing microbe tea from EWC castings, alaska humus, and mycogrow soluble powder. im dosing them with new tea every 3-4 days and changing the res every 7 days. since ive been religious with the microbe tea my root health is thru the roof. i dont forsee any further issues.
not sure if its ok to link outside the forum, but my grow log is located here if u wish to check it out:
https://midnightsuncoop.com/forum/showthread.php?46-Long-time-soil-grower-moving-to-DWC
my 2nd round which is a month behind was rooted pretty well in veg. blue dream clone. 2nd week of flower it got hit by the slime and killed pretty much all of its roots as well. 2 weeks later the roots are barely getting back to where they were. so its definitely stunted, which sucks because i had high expectations for this one. i have a lot of bud sites and i think itll yield better than cherry pie but still no where near full potential.
my 3rd round that is in its final week of veg (going into flower when the cherry pie is harvested) is so far my cream of the crop. i decided to up the number of plants per bucket from 1 to 4. these ladies are huge. bigger already than blue dream is even now (these are GDP, notorious for being short/squat slow veggers, so the fact that they're all bigger than a sativa dominant BLUE Dream that is known to stretch is saying a lot. not only that, the roots on these ladies are ROBUST! each plant has probably at least 4x the root length and mass that the blue dream in flower has. they're drinking about a gallon a day out of my veg res. i wont have access to a camera for a few days, but next monday i'll be updating my grow log with current pics as they move into the flower chamber under the 1k.
i only am giving the plants in dwc now 1 month veg, and already they are bigger than my soil plants that used to have 2 months. not only that they have way healthier roots. if i can keep these roots healthy i am 100% certain i will pull a monster yield from them.
I'm not worried about the slime anymore, ive been brewing microbe tea from EWC castings, alaska humus, and mycogrow soluble powder. im dosing them with new tea every 3-4 days and changing the res every 7 days. since ive been religious with the microbe tea my root health is thru the roof. i dont forsee any further issues.
not sure if its ok to link outside the forum, but my grow log is located here if u wish to check it out:
https://midnightsuncoop.com/forum/showthread.php?46-Long-time-soil-grower-moving-to-DWC
f4 would be the traits that you see in the seed would be more likely to occur across many seeds. so i guess you could say stabilized. basically taking a female and a male with desirable traits. back crossing. and repeating 4 times. so every time you're selecting the traits you want to carry on to the offspring, increasing the likelyhood that each seed with have the traits desired.
well i have a few more rounds under my belt, and a lot of new knowledge.
im about to start experimenting with mixing my own salts instead of using maxi line.. i dont think its going to be cheaper, but its going to be an attempt to see if i can dial in better ratios of nutrients. even though maxi works, i dont think its ideal. the ideal n-p-k for cannabis (veg and flower) is in the range of 3-1-2 to 3-1-4.. less potassium if you're running regular temps, and no co2.. higher potassium for higher temps, or running co2, sea of green etc.. im aiming for the 3-1-3 mark when i mix my salts..
ive learned since my last post that cannabis doesnt need crazy high levels of P, or even an increase in P during flower. the nutrients arent triggering anything, we are by changing the light timing.
the point of cannabis is to keep the leaves as healthy as possible. high P is going to cause deficiencies.. in N and also in your micro nutrients..
also you need to have your calicium equal to nitrogen, and magnesium half of the calcium.. if you obtain that ratio, you can run much lower PPM's.
PPM's need to be lower in DWC/hydro especially. and the reason IN SOIL people run higher levels of P is because most of it gets flushed out before the plant can uptake it. so you have to add a lot more to get the plant adequate levels.. thats not a problem using soluble nutrients and in DWC, because its not flushing out anywhere, its staying in the reservoir and staying there so the plant can use it. its not going anywhere! in DWC, P levels should be anywhere from 3 to 5 times lower than nitrogen.. around 20 to 60 ppm P maximum.
nothing gets more simple than maxigrow or maxibloom in dwc.. its so simple. i'd rather use maxigrow all through veg and flower, i feel its a more complete nutrient.. and will keep your plants green. ive used it all the way up to the 5th week of flower to experiment and it's worked great with no issues.
i have noticed flavor profile is not as good as organic soil in DWC.. after a month cure its better, but i'd like to be good after chop like soil was. im wondering if 2 weeks water only would fix that. ive been doing a taper down on EC in the end. never a full 2 week flush. i havent been able to achieve a good fade in the leaves visible appearance though. i think running DWC at 1.7 ec (full strength maxibloom) is too high, and its leaving too much build up in the plant.
im about to start experimenting with mixing my own salts instead of using maxi line.. i dont think its going to be cheaper, but its going to be an attempt to see if i can dial in better ratios of nutrients. even though maxi works, i dont think its ideal. the ideal n-p-k for cannabis (veg and flower) is in the range of 3-1-2 to 3-1-4.. less potassium if you're running regular temps, and no co2.. higher potassium for higher temps, or running co2, sea of green etc.. im aiming for the 3-1-3 mark when i mix my salts..
ive learned since my last post that cannabis doesnt need crazy high levels of P, or even an increase in P during flower. the nutrients arent triggering anything, we are by changing the light timing.
the point of cannabis is to keep the leaves as healthy as possible. high P is going to cause deficiencies.. in N and also in your micro nutrients..
also you need to have your calicium equal to nitrogen, and magnesium half of the calcium.. if you obtain that ratio, you can run much lower PPM's.
PPM's need to be lower in DWC/hydro especially. and the reason IN SOIL people run higher levels of P is because most of it gets flushed out before the plant can uptake it. so you have to add a lot more to get the plant adequate levels.. thats not a problem using soluble nutrients and in DWC, because its not flushing out anywhere, its staying in the reservoir and staying there so the plant can use it. its not going anywhere! in DWC, P levels should be anywhere from 3 to 5 times lower than nitrogen.. around 20 to 60 ppm P maximum.
nothing gets more simple than maxigrow or maxibloom in dwc.. its so simple. i'd rather use maxigrow all through veg and flower, i feel its a more complete nutrient.. and will keep your plants green. ive used it all the way up to the 5th week of flower to experiment and it's worked great with no issues.
i have noticed flavor profile is not as good as organic soil in DWC.. after a month cure its better, but i'd like to be good after chop like soil was. im wondering if 2 weeks water only would fix that. ive been doing a taper down on EC in the end. never a full 2 week flush. i havent been able to achieve a good fade in the leaves visible appearance though. i think running DWC at 1.7 ec (full strength maxibloom) is too high, and its leaving too much build up in the plant.
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
how r u using the maxi?
for me in flower i use
week 1 1/2 tsp maxi gro, 1/2 tsp bloom per gallon.
week 2 3/4 tsp of maxi bloom, 1/4 tsp maxi gro,
week 3-6 1 tsp oper gal bloom only
week 7 -3days before harvest 1tsp maxi bloom + 1/4 tsp gh kool bloom powder
last 3 days 1tsp per gal of gh kleen
seems to work great, yields are better than ever, no yellowing till last week of bloom, taste is great, but better after cure..
just wondered how u use ur maxi series in flower? bloom all the way? i found adding the gro the first couple weeks keeps the leaves green, if i go full bloom week 1 - harvest i get yellowing in the 3rd week, by adding the gro to the bloom problem solved...what is ur bloom maxi line up??
i keep mine a little more simple, i use DutchMaster Gold Silica first, then for the first 2 weeks of flower i use just straight maxigrow.. target the ec @ around 1.7.. then weeks 3+ i use straight maxibloom. 1 tsp per gallon targets ec @ 1.7.. maxigrow has a little higher EC, i believe like 1.9 per tsp per gallon.
but im in the same boat, using maxibloom from transition and plants will be yellow by 3rd week.
i dont use a PK boost like koolbloom.. plant doesnt need that much extra p/k.. its just a gimmick to sell more nutrients. but if it works for you and you're happy no need to change it. maybe try a round without it see if it makes a noticable difference.
im not particularly happy with the flavor until after a month cure.. its not horrible but i come from very clean natural/organic soil grows previously.. so i guess im spoiled a little. but i primarily vaporize so off the vape it doesnt make a difference. but i notice the subtle differences combusting it.
i feel the ec could be lower, (like 1.3 or so) and still be just as effective. which would break down to 4 tsp per 5 gallons of water of maxibloom.
i dont do a final flush.. i instead taper down the nutrients for the final 2 weeks.. im wondering if i was to do water only for final 2 weeks if that would make the final product smoother right after chop.. i dont think it will though. i suspect it needs something like humic/fulvic acids.. and some sweetener like sucanat. which would cause problems in my root zone feeding bad bacteria.. i just want it to be super smooth right as soon as its dry like it was in soil. and not after a month cure.
also i cant get my plants to yellow.. even with a taper (2 week before harvest dropping ec from 1.7 down to 0.6.. last week before harvest dropping it down to 0.2ec).. they stay pretty green. very little fading going on if at all. makes me think theres too much residual nutrients. like my EC is too high all through flower.
do you use DWC or?
i know dwc usually requires lower EC levels. which makes me think somewhere in the range of 1.0 to 1.3 should be plenty. my salts come in tomorrow, so when i get them if my calculations are correct i should be in the 1.1ec range at full strength with a N-P-K-Ca-Mg-S ratio of 3-1-3-3-1.5-2
but im in the same boat, using maxibloom from transition and plants will be yellow by 3rd week.
i dont use a PK boost like koolbloom.. plant doesnt need that much extra p/k.. its just a gimmick to sell more nutrients. but if it works for you and you're happy no need to change it. maybe try a round without it see if it makes a noticable difference.
im not particularly happy with the flavor until after a month cure.. its not horrible but i come from very clean natural/organic soil grows previously.. so i guess im spoiled a little. but i primarily vaporize so off the vape it doesnt make a difference. but i notice the subtle differences combusting it.
i feel the ec could be lower, (like 1.3 or so) and still be just as effective. which would break down to 4 tsp per 5 gallons of water of maxibloom.
i dont do a final flush.. i instead taper down the nutrients for the final 2 weeks.. im wondering if i was to do water only for final 2 weeks if that would make the final product smoother right after chop.. i dont think it will though. i suspect it needs something like humic/fulvic acids.. and some sweetener like sucanat. which would cause problems in my root zone feeding bad bacteria.. i just want it to be super smooth right as soon as its dry like it was in soil. and not after a month cure.
also i cant get my plants to yellow.. even with a taper (2 week before harvest dropping ec from 1.7 down to 0.6.. last week before harvest dropping it down to 0.2ec).. they stay pretty green. very little fading going on if at all. makes me think theres too much residual nutrients. like my EC is too high all through flower.
do you use DWC or?
i know dwc usually requires lower EC levels. which makes me think somewhere in the range of 1.0 to 1.3 should be plenty. my salts come in tomorrow, so when i get them if my calculations are correct i should be in the 1.1ec range at full strength with a N-P-K-Ca-Mg-S ratio of 3-1-3-3-1.5-2
farmasensist
Well-Known Member
Ive been switching from all grow to all bloom the day i flip the lights to 12 hours but i think next time ill try to do a little transitioning with grow/bloom mix. I think the liquid kool bloom does help bulk things up but I havent really figured out the dry stuff. I think I was adding the dry tooearly and the plants were showing some stress from it. I havent been flushing because i hear it doesnt do much in DWC but i will stop adding nutes the last couple weeks and just top off with water.
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
im in a home made dwc/undercurrent, constantly recirculating system.. if u flush last 2 weeks w/ straight water ull get the fall colors ur looking for, but u will lose some bud weight, tried it, done that.. ive found using the koolbloom last 2 weeks actually improves bud size and promotes them to ripen..i grew w/out it and with, with it buds get bigger and finish sooner..also in my system plants 30 plants on a 4x6 table take up roughly a gallon or more per day, by giving them kleen or plain water for 3-5 days prior harvest they are basicly ready to pull, but i give them that 3-5 day flush to get the yellow/purple fall colors and clean out salt or xtra nute buildup.. believe me its crazy how in 3-5 days they can go from green to yellow.. maybe try giving them that 3-5 day flush for color and taste, but no more than a week of flush, more than a week of flush u will lose weight unless u give them nutes till finish, then flush a week..i prefer to give them nutes till they are all swolen and beginning to amber then flush for 3-5 days,,normally by day3 of flush im getting those colors im after if not ill give them 5 days,,always have yellow/purple/orange fall colors by day 5 of flush and smoke is smooth freshly dried not harsh at all, i am a caregivver and patients like the natural flavors, not chemical,,so that last 3-5 day flush really brings out the plants natural flavor...give my line up a try,,let me know what u think,, i think ull be impressed..plants are in 3 inch net pots with rockwool, 4x6 table under 2 600 watt hps day temps at canopy are 75 f, night temps at canopy are 58-65 f never higher than 65 at night never above 78 at canopy wile lights on..
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
i did tests comparing nutes, with and w/out additives, in my tests the liquid koolbloom did nothing, however the koolbloom powder used for the last 2 weeks only, improved bud size,density, and helped them to ripen 3-7 days sooner than w/out.. so a 9 week strain will finish in 8 weeks with powder koolbloom if started at week 6, w/out it plants will finish at 9 weeks...it really helps them to swell and ripen in my side by side tests...also maxi clearly yeilded higher than gh 3 part and about the same as the nova series,,all gh nutes worked better than advanced 3 part, and fox farm foiliar pro,fox farm was better than advanced, and plant life 3 part yielded better than advanced and fox farm, bc nutes,rockwool a &b, and a few others were all crap...higher priced nutes are not always better.. i could have saved alot of cash just sticking w/ general hydroponics, but i had to try all the big nutes,,after all my side by side tests done on a 4x4 ebb n flow i found maxi always yielded best and was just as good if not better than gh nova,,however the nova series does give plants a bit more of an organic flavor, but not enough to make up for the price difference and mixing problems i had...
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
i forgot to add, all other additives and boosters i tried in side by side testing were a waste of money,koolbloom powder was the only one that consistently yielded more, even used w/ other nutrients.. but worked best paired with maxi..
im doing a compare now with carbo max,,too soon to tell but as of now im not seeing any big differences..
mad farmers nutrient up take solution,N.U.T.S. DOES NOTHING FOR TASTE OR YIELD, but paired with mad farmers get down, works better than any other PH down ive tried.. the get down brings ur ph down, wile the nuts holds the ph there...
so if i set a 30 gallon res at 5.6 w. get down and nuts(along w/ my maxi mix)) my ph will stay at 5.6-5.8 over a 5 day period at which time i need to add water anyways as plants take up a gallon or more per day...
im doing a compare now with carbo max,,too soon to tell but as of now im not seeing any big differences..
mad farmers nutrient up take solution,N.U.T.S. DOES NOTHING FOR TASTE OR YIELD, but paired with mad farmers get down, works better than any other PH down ive tried.. the get down brings ur ph down, wile the nuts holds the ph there...
so if i set a 30 gallon res at 5.6 w. get down and nuts(along w/ my maxi mix)) my ph will stay at 5.6-5.8 over a 5 day period at which time i need to add water anyways as plants take up a gallon or more per day...
i dunno i just cant wrap my head around why using a pk finisher would be beneficial.. seems that the only thing that MIGHT make sense is it throws all the ratios off, causing the plant to force finish.. making N not uptake, and micro nutrients not uptake due to high p levels. maybe only in dwc because you can flush fast.
seems it should be more beneficial to the plant to keep a properly balanced full feed until the last 3-5 days. i run all my strains 1 week longer than scheduled anyway, so they're already done by the time i would flush..
also the plant starts uptaking a lot less at the end of its life, so i would think that upping p/k at the very end when they are hardly even eating anymore wouldnt do anything other than just adding nutrients for no purpose.. do you monitor your EC/PPM levels at all? how does the plant eating rate change in the final couple of weeks, and how does the ec levels change when you apply the koolbloom?
seems it should be more beneficial to the plant to keep a properly balanced full feed until the last 3-5 days. i run all my strains 1 week longer than scheduled anyway, so they're already done by the time i would flush..
also the plant starts uptaking a lot less at the end of its life, so i would think that upping p/k at the very end when they are hardly even eating anymore wouldnt do anything other than just adding nutrients for no purpose.. do you monitor your EC/PPM levels at all? how does the plant eating rate change in the final couple of weeks, and how does the ec levels change when you apply the koolbloom?
Cannasutraorganics
Well-Known Member
First, a pound is 454 grams. Quit shorting your buyers. This is America and we don't do no metric system... We do 4 foot square under 1000 watt. 680 grams per 1000 watt light is considered a good grow. Average is more like 400 to 500. The right strain and attention to detail some get over 1350 grams of dried bud in 4 x 4 under 1000. Not DWC. Seen DWC go almost 2000 grams. Also seen DWC die in 12 hours from a simple mistake. I like soil.
Cannasutraorganics
Well-Known Member
Fresh harvest bud will loose over 80% of its weight when dried.