I want to go more organic help please

RyanTrees

Well-Known Member
I mix Roots organics with promix with some plants and I try happy frog with promix on others but I want to put more in my own made soil. New yard new house, next year I'll make new compost for how though I'll rely on just ordering additives, any suggestion what kinds of bat guano what kinds of kelp and bone meal? Any body order off Amazon or ebay for these things I've been browsing, bout to buy black gold earth worms casting gag off amazon any thoughts?
 

packetloss314

Well-Known Member
Ocean Forrest owns..... Just sayin

All comments and pictures posted by the entity known as packetloss314 are completely fiction and at times outright lies. All content was copied from the internet and all statements are from the mind of a lunatic
 

foreverflyhi

Well-Known Member
I mix Roots organics with promix with some plants and I try happy frog with promix on others but I want to put more in my own made soil. New yard new house, next year I'll make new compost for how though I'll rely on just ordering additives, any suggestion what kinds of bat guano what kinds of kelp and bone meal? Any body order off Amazon or ebay for these things I've been browsing, bout to buy black gold earth worms casting gag off amazon any thoughts?
Nice!

Go to the ROLS thread here in the organic section , everything you need to know is in there, from soil mix, to types of kelp etc etc, trust me homie, it doesn't get anymore organic then ROLS,

I highly suggest you start a wormbin , that is key to success in true organics.

Btw not too diss any one. But fuck Fox farm
 

Nullis

Moderator
I never use any Fox Farm products besides their soils, which I must say are not that bad (Roots sucks IMO, always had too much perlite). At least Ocean Forest is more like an actual soil (contains loam). Most other bagged products are almost exclusively soil-less mixes. You can still use it as a base for super soil.
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
I mix Roots organics with promix with some plants and I try happy frog with promix on others but I want to put more in my own made soil. New yard new house, next year I'll make new compost for how though I'll rely on just ordering additives, any suggestion what kinds of bat guano what kinds of kelp and bone meal? Any body order off Amazon or ebay for these things I've been browsing, bout to buy black gold earth worms casting gag off amazon any thoughts?

Everything you need right here...

http://buildasoil.com/
 

Nullis

Moderator
How did your bag of Roots look if I may ask? Do you know which variety you're using? I know they have a few bagged mixes.

It was the original mix I didn't like and thought was very inconsistent between bags that I did purchase (2-3 years ago when it first became available in my area). I opened it up to find what appeared to be a mass of mostly chunky perlite. There was other material in there too to some extent (it looked like compost mixed with perlite), but I could not get over the amount of perlite. I know some people think that perlite is uber important, but it's really not and you just don't need a god awful amount like that. It is also inexpensive and shouldn't be sold for $15 a bag.

I am curious if their product has improved, but with Fox Farm at least I can say that personally I've always had consistency between bags of soil and not been dissatisfied. Usually I mix OF with another product called Sunshine Advanced Mix #4, which is really just a base mix of screened, limed sphagnum, coco coir and perlite. If I do this I also mix more compost or castings in, but I like the addition of coco coir and the texture of the screened mix (there's no large particles of anything).

Perlite isn't something you want too much of in a soil mix, because it is totally inert, and doesn't really hold water or nutrients. Other materials like compost, humus, earthworm castings, clay and even coco coir, sphagnum and vermiculite act to some extent like "magnets" for nutrients, or ions (charged particles) that plants absorb. These materials are referred to as having a "cation exchange capacity" as well as a "buffering capacity".

So for example, you may know that plants need nutrients like Nitrogen (N), Phosphorous (P), Potassium (K), Calcium (Ca), Magnesium (Mg), Sulfur (S), Iron (Fe), even Sodium (Na), among others. These are absorbed by plants and supplied by fertilizers or soil ingredients/microbial activity as ions.
  • Cations are positively charged and include: Ca++, Mg++, Na+, K+, Fe2/3+, H+ (hydrogen)
  • Anions are negatively charged and include: H2PO4−, SO42−, OH- (hydroxide anion)
  • Nitrogen can actually be a polyatomic cation: NH4+ (ammonium ion) or anion NO3− (nitrate)
  • Particles of clay, compost, humus, castings, sphagnum, etc. are small enough to be involved in electrostatic interaction
  • They have "exchange sites", which are predominately negative, and so adsorb or latch onto cations (opposites attract)
  • The attraction is strong enough to hold onto the cations so they don't wash away, but typically weak enough that plants are still able to absorb them
  • There is such a thing as "anion exchange capacity" as well, but most plant nutrients are cations and CEC predominates
CEC relates to a soils pH and buffering capacity, or ability to resist changes in pH. E.g. Materials with high CEC generally need more lime less frequently. Materials with lower CEC generally need less lime more frequently. Good base cation saturation (K+, Ca++, Mg++, and Na+ are base cations) also keeps acidity in check.

Perlite, however, having virtually no CEC whatsoever, wont hold onto to nutrient cations. Excess amounts can also create gaps or pockets of air/dry spots in your mix, where roots wont really want to grow. So too much is basically like creating dead space in your mix.

And do not waste your time with Black Gold anything (besides perhaps the seed starting mix). I'm not sure the stuff they sell is even pure earthworm castings, I thought it was blended with other stuff like sphagnum (check the ingredients). I bought a bag of their "Garden Compost" one time, as it was inexpensive, but I was disappointed to find that it was actually a lot more like a mulch and derived from peanut shells, peat and forestry products.

For bagged castings, try VermiWorm.
 

RyanTrees

Well-Known Member
My biggest curiosity is if people are using stuff off amazon? I bought Ipower 1000w off ebay it's great, but I was looking at bird guano sand bat and earthworm casting and kelp meal they have it all on there any of it good value or is it cheaper and or better at your local stores
 

RyanTrees

Well-Known Member
And they have the roots 707 and original I have original I use it just To cut with promix, it's perlite ratio is nice good amount of perlite but definetly isn't a bag of perlite, I'll take pic of handful I put a little perlite to it after mixin with promix bx
 

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Nullis

Moderator
What brands? I don't see why Amazon stuff would be inherently bad, just ask people about specific brands of stuff they use. I use Aglamin Kelp Meal at the moment and Grow More Alfalfa Meal. Alfalfa meal you might be able to get at the pet store as pellets, just make sure they are all natural.

I use Sunleaves guano in small amounts, it's the sort of thing not everyone likes to use (guano harvesting is controversial) and guano can definitely burn. But, it can help cover nutrient bases pretty well, just don't over do it and show some appreciation for the bats (it's my sincere hope that companies harvesting guano realize they need to keep bats around to continue to do this).

Castings seem like they would be too expensive online due to shipping, unless shipping is free and the price isn't already inflated.

If you want to build from scratch, here is a relatively simple mix I am planning to try once I can get around to it:
Base mix is 2 cu. ft. SAM#4 (1 cu. ft. compressed), otherwise relatively equal parts sphagnum, coir, perlite (can be less). Add to this:
  • 6 gallons fresh earthworm castings (25%) OR
  • 3 gallons quality compost\humus + 3 gallons earthworm castings (still 25% combined)
  • ~2 gallon vermiculite or rice hulls (10%) - Both of these materials will provide some minerals and aeration
That would make about 3 cubic feet or 23 gallons. For amendments:
  • 4 Cups Fishbone meal
  • 2 Cups Alfalfa meal (or pellets)
  • 1 Cup Kelp meal
  • 1/2 Cup Dolomitic limestone + 1/2 Cup eggshell meal OR 1 cup dolomitic limestone OR 1 cup eggshell meal + 2 tbsp Epsom salt
  • 1/3 to 1/2 cup Azomite
  • 8 oz High N guano (optional)
  • 4 oz High P guano (optional)
Mix it up, moisten with water containing blackstrap molasses. Allow to sit for 3-4 weeks. I think that should be fairly easy, and I want to try one with guano and one without to see how results differ in experimental fashion. I'd also like to see how allowing to stand for 3 weeks or even just two as opposed to 4 weeks changes things, or if anything can be done to truly accelerate the 'cooking' process.

Eggshell meal is made by letting the eggs you use to cook breakfast with dry out. Don't rinse them, as the remaining whites stuck to the shell/membrane will actually provide some additional nutrients. Just collect in a jar, put the jar somewhere warm like the top of your fridge. After a week or so they should be totally dry from the inside out. Now you can pulverize them, either in a food processor or an [old] coffee grinder. Grind them up real good into a powder (you'll notice flakes of the membrane and that's fine). Now you have a liming material that also has some amino acids and other nutrients.
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
What brands? I don't see why Amazon stuff would be inherently bad, just ask people about specific brands of stuff they use. I use Aglamin Kelp Meal at the moment and Grow More Alfalfa Meal. Alfalfa meal you might be able to get at the pet store as pellets, just make sure they are all natural.

I use Sunleaves guano in small amounts, it's the sort of thing not everyone likes to use (guano harvesting is controversial) and guano can definitely burn. But, it can help cover nutrient bases pretty well, just don't over do it and show some appreciation for the bats (it's my sincere hope that companies harvesting guano realize they need to keep bats around to continue to do this).

Castings seem like they would be too expensive online due to shipping, unless shipping is free and the price isn't already inflated.

If you want to build from scratch, here is a relatively simple mix I am planning to try once I can get around to it:
Base mix is 2 cu. ft. SAM#4 (1 cu. ft. compressed), otherwise relatively equal parts sphagnum, coir, perlite (can be less). Add to this:
  • 6 gallons fresh earthworm castings (25%) OR
  • 3 gallons quality compost\humus + 3 gallons earthworm castings (still 25% combined)
  • ~2 gallon vermiculite or rice hulls (10%) - Both of these materials will provide some minerals and aeration
That would make about 3 cubic feet or 23 gallons. For amendments:
  • 4 Cups Fishbone meal
  • 2 Cups Alfalfa meal (or pellets)
  • 1 Cup Kelp meal
  • 1/2 Cup Dolomitic limestone + 1/2 Cup eggshell meal OR 1 cup dolomitic limestone OR 1 cup eggshell meal + 2 tbsp Epsom salt
  • 1/3 to 1/2 cup Azomite
  • 8 oz High N guano (optional)
  • 4 oz High P guano (optional)
Mix it up, moisten with water containing blackstrap molasses. Allow to sit for 3-4 weeks. I think that should be fairly easy, and I want to try one with guano and one without to see how results differ in experimental fashion. I'd also like to see how allowing to stand for 3 weeks or even just two as opposed to 4 weeks changes things, or if anything can be done to truly accelerate the 'cooking' process.

Eggshell meal is made by letting the eggs you use to cook breakfast with dry out. Don't rinse them, as the remaining whites stuck to the shell/membrane will actually provide some additional nutrients. Just collect in a jar, put the jar somewhere warm like the top of your fridge. After a week or so they should be totally dry from the inside out. Now you can pulverize them, either in a food processor or an [old] coffee grinder. Grind them up real good into a powder (you'll notice flakes of the membrane and that's fine). Now you have a liming material that also has some amino acids and other nutrients.

Does baking the egg shells matter?

I usually put them in the oven @ 200 for about 20 minutes before taking the mortar and pestle to them, but someone mentioned on here not to bake them. Thoughts?
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Does baking the egg shells matter?

I usually put them in the oven @ 200 for about 20 minutes before taking the mortar and pestle to them, but someone mentioned on here not to bake them. Thoughts?
if you don't cook them there is nitrogen in there leftover from the egg. I don't think much. I usually cook them to get rid of salmonella.. If leftover egg residue sits out long enough it will develop salmonella. I usually rinse them then let them sit out and dry. Then cook, mash and store til I use them.
 

GrowerGoneWild

Well-Known Member
Does baking the egg shells matter?
I usually put them in the oven @ 200 for about 20 minutes before taking the mortar and pestle to them, but someone mentioned on here not to bake them. Thoughts?
Dry them out, they will pulverize easier in a blender. I have a bowl of them, I just keep putting shells in the bowl every day. I microwave all them on high for a minute. It gets them hot to dry them out and crush them down when it gets cool.
 

GrowerGoneWild

Well-Known Member
I mbat guano what kinds of kelp and bone meal? Any body order off Amazon or ebay for these things I've been browsing, bout to buy black gold earth worms casting gag off amazon any thoughts?
I'm really liking the Down To Earth organics.. They have several types of guano. I'm in early flower so I'm using the higher Bat Guano N mix. 9-somethign-something.

I'm loving the organic soil grow I'm doing, a combo of top feed and supersoil in the bottom half. Plants look textbook perfect, and sooooo easy. Yield is a little lacking but I had nothing but good feedback from the organic soil stuff.
 

foreverflyhi

Well-Known Member
Yeah but a 1.5 cu foot bag of ff or roots is 40 from amazon and its not water only. If the build a soil is water only, plus you fan reuse it, and its only 30 more with shipping? Doesn't seem that expensive.... for smaller amounts of course...is it water only though? Thats thats the question
It can be water only, but its best too add sillica coco aloe every sst every now and then, I would go with their complete nutrient mix plus their mineral mix and pumice/rice hulls. Then buy locally peat/coco worm castings. Just my two cents
 

genuity

Well-Known Member
I did just that^^^^

The soil mix they have is ok with just water,but like said above nothing wrong with some teas..ect

I got some worm casting and they was still warm and fresh...I was surprised.
Very quality company.
 
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