bodhi seeds

[TonightYou]

Huh that is weird. Perhaps you missed a nanner on the TER. Having said that, you mentioned having a male in the tent and perhaps when caring for the plants you brushed up against it and pollinated the TER

 

[TonightYou]

I should state for the record that I don't use bottled organic nutrients. I prefer amending my soil with various meals, then it's pretty much water only with an occasional tea along the way. Pro-tekt and fish hydrolysate would be the only bottles of anything you'd find in my grow.

My point with bottled products is that they are a concentrate. Most everything that you find in a cup of kelp meal would be found x 100 in a cup of concentrate. Fermentation for example would not shed many (if any) beneficial properties during the process.

I use fish hydrolysate. I suppose I could toss a rotten fish carcass in my buckets but I prefer the ease of use of the bottle. Does that bottle contain everything that the fish carcass does, or are compounds lost in the boiling process? I'm not 100% sure, and neither are you. I do know that the product brings benefits to my garden, so it remains.

You seem to have a bug up your ass over this. My question is why? What concern is it of yours what other people chose to do/use in their gardens?

The dick measuring that goes on in weed growing circles boggles my mind.

If you really want to be schooled on this topic have a chat with @Nullis

There are a million ways to skin a cat, and people get defensive of their own techniques. Only criticism I have is people using rip off companies.

Organics is a great way to go, and I enjoy reading how people are making it work. Sadly I am lazy and love the ease of Jacks. I've done my organic gardening and loved every second of it. I miss having a compost bin! But in my current situation, it would require more time/work than I'm willing to put in for prepping my medium

 

[st0wandgrow]

There are a million ways to skin a cat, and people get defensive of their own techniques. Only criticism I have is people using rip off companies.

Organics is a great way to go, and I enjoy reading how people are making it work. Sadly I am lazy and love the ease of Jacks. I've done my organic gardening and loved every second of it. I miss having a compost bin! But in my current situation, it would require more time/work than I'm willing to put in for prepping my medium

Agreed. I enjoy organic gardening, and I have various reasons why it's the right method for me. I have the room to mix dozens of cubic feet of soil, and I like the idea that I can re-use my soil over and over again. BUT, I understand that not everyone has the time, space, or desire to be doing this so I don't wag my finger at anyone for what they chose to do. I'm always down to share info and help where I can if someone is interested, but I don't see the point in ridiculing people if they do something different than me.

I think the Jacks fertilizers are a great option with synthetics. If I were ever to go back to using salts that would be where Id spend my money.

 

[Amos Otis]

The dick measuring that goes on in weed growing circles boggles my mind.

Why? Seems simple enough to me. Being a 'big cheese' on a weed sight is all some folks have going for them, ya know?

 

[littlegiant]

SSDD got a haircut last night. The bottom 2/3'rds of the plant is beautiful, but the top 1/3'rd is some crazy fox tailing. I've never seen anything like it. Not sure if this is genetic, or environmental?? First time using coco coir... can't see how that would cause this but nothing else was different other than that.

Top of plant:

View attachment 3286359

Middle of plant:

View attachment 3286357 View attachment 3286358

My first grow of Bodhi White Lotus did the same thing. Awsome looking frosty foxtail fingers on purple stems.Only one plant did that. Still have about 8 beans left. Looking forward to growing it again.

 

[D619]

Why? Seems simple enough to me. Being a 'big cheese' on a weed sight is all some folks have going for them, ya know?

Oh yeah that's me... Sigh.
Classic to see the heads who liked your post.

 

[blowincherrypie]

Just pulled down a beaut of a Goji... It really seems to get better with each run.. I'll throw up some pics if the purple/pink stays

 

[D619]

I should state for the record that I don't use bottled organic nutrients. I prefer amending my soil with various meals, then it's pretty much water only with an occasional tea along the way. Pro-tekt and fish hydrolysate would be the only bottles of anything you'd find in my grow.

My point with bottled products is that they are a concentrate. Most everything that you find in a cup of kelp meal would be found x 100 in a cup of concentrate. Fermentation for example would not shed many (if any) beneficial properties during the process.

I use fish hydrolysate. I suppose I could toss a rotten fish carcass in my buckets but I prefer the ease of use of the bottle. Does that bottle contain everything that the fish carcass does, or are compounds lost in the boiling process? I'm not 100% sure, and neither are you. I do know that the product brings benefits to my garden, so it remains.

You seem to have a bug up your ass over this. My question is why? What concern is it of yours what other people chose to do/use in their gardens?

The dick measuring that goes on in weed growing circles boggles my mind.

If you really want to be schooled on this topic have a chat with @Nullis

No concern to me at.
I won't bother even responding to this post about fermentation extracts and concentrates x100. Subjects dropped. Happy growing.

 

[st0wandgrow]

No concern to me at.
I won't bother even responding to this post about fermentation extracts and concentrates x100. Subjects dropped. Happy growing.

I'm not trying to come off like a dick here. I appologize if I was a little abrasive.

So as not to continue to clutter up this thread, take a peek at this thread in the organics section discussing this very topic...

https://www.rollitup.org/t/foxfarm-or-general-organics.848650/

Nullis makes some pretty compelling arguments for extracts. Not to say that they are *better* than a meal, but they seem to be a useful tool none the less.

 

[Mad Hamish]

Organic purists will do the planet well by tweaking their attitude. I am not the only one that has left organic forums for this reason. It is not StOw coming off like a dick.

 

[D619]

All

I'm not trying to come off like a dick here. I appologize if I was a little abrasive.

So as not to continue to clutter up this thread, take a peek at this thread in the organics section discussing this very topic...

https://www.rollitup.org/t/foxfarm-or-general-organics.848650/

Nullis makes some pretty compelling arguments for extracts. Not to say that they are *better* than a meal, but they seem to be a useful tool none the less.

All good Stow.. Thanks. Reading back I see how my responses came off aggressive and apologize for that. As far as purist goes .. I'm far from it. A purist wouldn't use triple action neem oil.

 

[Amos Otis]

Oh yeah that's me... Sigh.
Classic to see the heads who liked your post.

My apology - I didn't intend my comment to be directed at you, though I see where it looks as though it was. Not the case at all, actually.

Intended more to caricature a minority of wankers that I'm sure you recognize as well.

 

[D619]

My apology - I didn't intend my comment to be directed at you, though I see where it looks as though it was. Not the case at all, actually.

Intended more to caricature a minority of wankers that I'm sure you recognize as well.

Thanks for the clarification Amos.

 

[D619]

Organic purists will do the planet well by tweaking their attitude. I am not the only one that has left organic forums for this reason. It is not StOw coming off like a dick.

Yes, pot calling the kettle black here..

 

[Nullis]

https://www.rollitup.org/t/foxfarm-or-general-organics.848650/

Nullis makes some pretty compelling arguments for extracts. Not to say that they are *better* than a meal, but they seem to be a useful tool none the less.

The pivotal point in that thread is basically this: http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRD3456145

That describes why the National Organic Standards Board even allows extracts which utilize potassium or sodium hydroxide, in good enough detail. There is other research from academics I linked to in that thread. Over the past several decades there has actually been quite a bit of research done on seaweed/kelp and extracts thereof. A lot of the research used concentrates (extracts) and documented various plant responses. Seaweed concentrates have not only been demonstrated to be effective at stimulating growth, but should actually be more effective in general than raw kelp since they are more concentrated (including in the PGR department) as has been pointed out.

The primary methods in which seaweed extracts are made seem to be: cold pressed or mechanical, enzymatic digestion (or some combination thereof) and alkali extraction (using small amounts of KOH or NaOH). In general, all should contain many of the things natural kelp does and be more concentrated. All may differ in their results, as each will have subtle but perhaps significant enough variations in end composition.

The component of plant growth substances in these products is said to be somewhat different than the alkali extracted products. Some might be less available for beneficial activity to crop foliage due to less than complete extraction as compared to the alkali extracts. Some may be more available for beneficial crop activity due to the lack of chemical change in some of the less (alkali) stabile plant compounds inherent to the seaweed. One apparent difference in the activity between the alkali and natural extracts can be learned from reading the application instructions of each type. The natural extracts discourage applications at or after bloom on many crops due to the tendency of these products to promote more vegetative growth at the expense of bloom. The alkali extracts, on theother hand, are well known for their beneficial effects on bloom.

It makes sense that extracts would be more effective. Kelp meal has growth substances trapped inside the cells of the kelp. Just like the nutrients in the kelp, they don't do the plant any good until something releases them from within those cells and gives the roots (or foliage) access. Plant growth substances are likely to be quite a bit more delicate than nutrients, though, (they are larger molecules/compounds) and could even be modified or destroyed by microbial activity in ways which nutrients cannot (since nutrients are more like basic building blocks). Extracts, however they are made, aim to release the cell contents from seaweed-cell cytoplasm, growth substances and all. In this fashion they can be applied to soil and be directly available (hence more effective), or better yet applied to foliage and be even more effective (since plants absorb substances via foliage much quicker than roots).

So really, kelp meal and extracts can both be used for quite different although somewhat similar purposes.

 

[Amos Otis]

Extracts, however they are made, aim to release the cell contents from seaweed-cell cytoplasm, growth substances and all. In this fashion they can be....

Have I ever told you cats about my 'spaghetti sauce' approach? Switchiing from Hunts to Classico was pretty epic !

Just pulled down a beaut of a Goji... It really seems to get better with each run.. I'll throw up some pics if the purple/pink stays

The Goji girl from bean running now @ 25 days is looking like it could be the berry goji ! I have 4 rooted clones of her if so, for lots of jars of buds, and some s-1s.

In other Bodhi news, 2 solos stash are at 48 days bloom, and I swear one looks like it has a chance to be done at 8 weeks; a short, fat, bushy girl. Didn't keep a clone, but she looks and smells very similar to the berry goji.

 

[D619]

Grea

The pivotal point in that thread is basically this: http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRD3456145

That describes why the National Organic Standards Board even allows extracts which utilize potassium or sodium hydroxide, in good enough detail. There is other research from academics I linked to in that thread. Over the past several decades there has actually been quite a bit of research done on seaweed/kelp and extracts thereof. A lot of the research used concentrates (extracts) and documented various plant responses. Seaweed concentrates have not only been demonstrated to be effective at stimulating growth, but should actually be more effective in general than raw kelp since they are more concentrated (including in the PGR department) as has been pointed out.

The primary methods in which seaweed extracts are made seem to be: cold pressed or mechanical, enzymatic digestion (or some combination thereof) and alkali extraction (using small amounts of KOH or NaOH). In general, all should contain many of the things natural kelp does and be more concentrated. All may differ in their results, as each will have subtle but perhaps significant enough variations in end composition.


It makes sense that extracts would be more effective. Kelp meal has growth substances trapped inside the cells of the kelp. Just like the nutrients in the kelp, they don't do the plant any good until something releases them from within those cells and gives the roots (or foliage) access. Plant growth substances are likely to be quite a bit more delicate than nutrients, though, (they are larger molecules/compounds) and could even be modified or destroyed by microbial activity in ways which nutrients cannot (since nutrients are more like basic building blocks). Extracts, however they are made, aim to release the cell contents from seaweed-cell cytoplasm, growth substances and all. In this fashion they can be applied to soil and be directly available (hence more effective), or better yet applied to foliage and be even more effective (since plants absorb substances via foliage much quicker than roots).

So really, kelp meal and extracts can both be used for quite different although somewhat similar purposes.

Thanks for the very well written response. Appreciate it.
Did you mean cold pressed or process ?

From research I've read kelp meal turned into a fine kelp powder to a kelp liquid had higher amounts of growth hormones and enzymatically digested making the growth hormones more readily available than seaweed extracts. Cold process I believe in Europe requires temperature to be no higher than 90 degrees Fahrenheit , where as in the United States their isn't any set regulation on what is considered cold processed. Also when you say small amount of KOH or NaOH that is used in extraction, I haven't found any organization that regulates that claim.. Thanks for pointing that out
. Adding direct kelp meal to the soil is not available until a month or even months later.

Cheers.. I will check out the thread you moderate .. Always open to learn and unlearn misinformation . Cheers.

 

[joeshivo]

I would love to learn how to rock a vegan soil, however I don't know much about seaweed and kelp and whatever else is out there. Anybody have any experience with Bondi and vegan gardens compared to non vegan?

 

[mr mustache]

Have I ever told you cats about my 'spaghetti sauce' approach? Switchiing from Hunts to Classico was pretty epic !

Those are both bad sauces.

 

[mr mustache]

Greetings Earthlings!

This is Sorcerers Apprentice. Perfect for a day of LARPing with thine fellow armigers.

Smell: A stale wind blowing through thistles of rye.

Taste: Reminiscent of a fine pudding.

Stone: Epic Sledgehammer of Mordor!

Satchel Appeal: Glistens like Golden drakoons in the fire's ire.