White spots in center of leaves, stunted growth. Using Earth Juice. Whats wrong?

[phaed]

Hello guys,

I would like to thank you for taking the time to read my post. Your time is very much appreciated. I hope one day to be knowledgeable enough to be able to help others as well. This is not my first grow, its actually my second but still kinda new at this. On my first one I used high NPK chemical nutes without diluting and murdered my plants. Since then I've been reading this forum a lot, and have tried to cover all the bases but I seem to be having problems. Seeking some expert advice.

Problem
The tips on bottom leaves began turning yellow, then brown. Now leaves have spots of first white then brown near their centers. Top of plant is lighter color than the rest and the growth is kinda slow. Something is up.

Particulars

• 2 plants, Casey's Widow from seed
• Growing indoors in 2'x2'x3'
• 400w MH then HPS 12"-18" from plants, seedlings on 3000 lumen CFL inches from top
• ~400CFM extractor pulling from carbon filter though sealed hood, has active and passive active intakes
• Temps 70 - 82 (measured at 12" from light with cardboard above monitor)
• Currently at 1st day of 1st week of flower, 9 weeks from seed (they should be way bigger by now no?)
• Using processed soil used for germinating mixed with compost mixed with perlite
• Watering once a week on Saturday. They do get kinda dry by thursday/fri so I spray some water on them.
• Started in cups, moved to 2 gal smartpots, moving to 5 gal soon
  
• Runoff measured at ph 7.0, is that ok for organic grows?

Relevant History

• Extractor shut off sending temps into the hundreds for a few hours, twice during early veg.
• Topped and then defoliated fan leaves once halfway through veg. Could be why they are stunted, or maybe not?

Feeding

• 
• Gray numbers are ml/gallon pulled from the "Scientific nutrient study", black numbers next to them are adjusted for the amount of water I use to feed (3 liters).
• Also adding Hygrozime and Plant Success for roots, and Molasses to replace Meta-K from the EJ lineup.
• Also foilar feeding plants twice a day or so with ph'd water with marine algae extracts.
  
• The nutes are tea'd for 72 hours prior to feeding.
• Up until last week I was adding Earth Juice Natural Up/Down to regulate the tea to ph 6.5. Stopped doing that last week when I read that EJ doesn't need up/down
• Also for most of the veg cycle I was feeding EJ Elements Cal-n-Mag at the recommended dosage without realizing that was probably not needed being that I use unfiltered hard water with ph 7.0 - 7.5

Top of plant is light colored

White/brown spots in center of leaves


Tips are yellow then brown

Bottom leaves have yellow center

 

[green_machine_two9er]

somethings off balanced with your nutrients. looks like N for sure. I would drop ph to 6.5-6.8 first and flush to get rid of excess salts. cal mag plus hard water is never a good combo.
my main guess would be ph is too high locking out something.

props on the organic grow. i recently swtiched to organic and havent looked back.

 

[Kush Knight]

^ I agree with that. pH is your problem most likely. I had seedlings do that with non-pHed water.

 

[Zaycor]

Hey buddy, for some reason I wasnt able to open your pics to have a good look but white spots makes me think of white powder mildew...try to gently wipe them off with a paper towel & make sure you have enough airflow in the tent or ventillation. Yellow tips are often a sign of too much nutes...are you using the recommended pack amount? if so half it just now. You seem to be using alot of different stuff in your feed which can only complicate things unless you know what your doing.

I also agree with the other's regarding your pH...not sure about organic but in soil pH should be around 6-6.5. A wrong pH usually leads to all sorts of issues so best sort that out ASAP. Good luck & happy growing!

 

[Kush Knight]

actually in soil ph from 6.4 to 6.6

 

[Kush Knight]

And be sure to remove underbrush to avoid mites and the such.

 

[phaed]

Thanks a lot for the help guys. Wen't ahead with the flush, and removed the underbrush and went ahead and defoliated some of the fan leaves as well. Also no more Cal-n-Mag. They are looking a bit healthier than yesterday, I'm optimistic.



Also another thing I noticed, some little bugs walking/flying around the area. Wen't ahead and sprayed everything with an alcohol/water mix to try get rid of them. Anyone know what they are?

 

[Kush Knight]

couldnt view pics, but if they are in the soil (move the top inch around some) then there are two possible solutions, 2" of sand or aquarium gravel, or the better solution, H2O2 (peroxide) solution when watering. Soil pests tend to crop up from "overwatering". Or rather, when not enough oxygen reaches the dying roots in the dry time. Its (only slightly) better to constantly forget to water than to constantly flood the roots.

Defoliation temporarily slows growth, but damn are you gonna have dense chunk buds or what?

If you're worried about height sometimes when the lights too close or too blue at that time for the strain, it'll try to stay really really compact. but the more likely thing is your feed is a little off and ph is/was off. A small range of pH fluctuation is essential for the uptake of all nutrients.

 

[phaed]

Awesome, going to try the peroxide next time I water.

 

[workinit]

First, your growing organic. FORGET ABOUT PH! It is not necessary and can actually cause problems. Also, NO peroxide. It will kill all your beneficial bacteria and then you will have a dead soil. Try it and watch your soil foam. Keep in mind nature seems to do a fine job without PH meters, PH UP/Down, Hydrogen peroxide and all that other BS. Keep it simple. A good tip for organic growing is add a cup of worm castings per gallon of soil. WC are full of humus which will do a fine job of regulating you PH. As for what to do, just let it dry out. Looks over watered to me. Once it dries don't soak it. Just give it a few ounces of water daily until she comes around.

 

[Dboi87]

if your tap water is at 7 or higher my guess is there's plenty of calcium in it. you can probably go your entire grow and never once have to supplement calcium. too much calcium will cause lockout.

 

[Kush Knight]

First, your growing organic. FORGET ABOUT PH! It is not necessary and can actually cause problems. Also, NO peroxide. It will kill all your beneficial bacteria and then you will have a dead soil. Try it and watch your soil foam. Keep in mind nature seems to do a fine job without PH meters, PH UP/Down, Hydrogen peroxide and all that other BS. Keep it simple. A good tip for organic growing is add a cup of worm castings per gallon of soil. WC are full of humus which will do a fine job of regulating you PH. As for what to do, just let it dry out. Looks over watered to me. Once it dries don't soak it. Just give it a few ounces of water daily until she comes around.

With all due respect.....

Nature also includes pests. Ever seen wild weed. There was happy pests nearby for sure.
Ever thrown a "dead" stubborn seed outside and watched it miraculously germ, grow, burn, and be eaten by aphids within 20 days? Or heard of deer eating plants?
Nature is rather controlling. She reminds the plants they were specialized for a specific ecosystem and relation to the sun, and even gives them the ability to hermie as a survival technique for the species.

Peroxide WILL kill colonies. If you don't want that op, stop this method (buy good organic stuff to rid pests.)

A single cup of tea (maybe mixed with another cup water for pot size) evenly dispersed 4-5 hours later can help counteract this drop in colonies, or even wait till next feeding with all the microbes you got in the mix. The very point of the peroxide in this case being it CAN kill all the small things in the soil, and as a bonus, gives an oxygen boost to the roots. You can have microbe happy soil with a peroxide regime, i've seen it used as part of the regime on some of the best organic plants I've seen in person (3.5-4 lbs outdoor short season from 100 gallon smart pots in poor rh and high heat) The only thing my hippie friend cares about is the symbiosis between the microbes and the roots. Very precise grow that pays off every year with quantity and very high quality. They tend to rely more on the pump in their water drum for dissolved oxygen though, and its neutral pH water thats then lowered to ~6.7-6.8 to compensate for bonemeal, castings etc with some organic common thing im forgetting.

Anyways pH is always important to adjust. Mediums, strain, fertilizers and whatever else all affect the optimal pH. Its just a game of experience gained. You just seem to prefer using adjusters in the soil that tend to have npk value, putting more adjusters in to fix the soil. He is already pushing his variety of nutes with what hes got. More "adjusters" possibly messing with his npk is just what he needs in his second grow.



I do agree with him 100% on the over watering though bud. So many people don't ever think to buy bags of large chunks of perlite/vermiculite. It can help dry time so much, and can make the roots go crazy. Space your waterings a little more. Also looks like you used whatever cal mag you had a little often. If only used once, not really needed.

 

[workinit]

With all due respect.....

Nature also includes pests. Ever seen wild weed. There was happy pests nearby for sure.
Ever thrown a "dead" stubborn seed outside and watched it miraculously germ, grow, burn, and be eaten by aphids within 20 days? Or heard of deer eating plants?
Nature is rather controlling. She reminds the plants they were specialized for a specific ecosystem and relation to the sun, and even gives them the ability to hermie as a survival technique for the species.

Peroxide WILL kill colonies. If you don't want that op, stop this method (buy good organic stuff to rid pests.)

A single cup of tea (maybe mixed with another cup water for pot size) evenly dispersed 4-5 hours later can help counteract this drop in colonies, or even wait till next feeding with all the microbes you got in the mix. The very point of the peroxide in this case being it CAN kill all the small things in the soil, and as a bonus, gives an oxygen boost to the roots. You can have microbe happy soil with a peroxide regime, i've seen it used as part of the regime on some of the best organic plants I've seen in person (3.5-4 lbs outdoor short season from 100 gallon smart pots in poor rh and high heat) The only thing my hippie friend cares about is the symbiosis between the microbes and the roots. Very precise grow that pays off every year with quantity and very high quality. They tend to rely more on the pump in their water drum for dissolved oxygen though, and its neutral pH water thats then lowered to ~6.7-6.8 to compensate for bonemeal, castings etc with some organic common thing im forgetting.

Anyways pH is always important to adjust. Mediums, strain, fertilizers and whatever else all affect the optimal pH. Its just a game of experience gained. You just seem to prefer using adjusters in the soil that tend to have npk value, putting more adjusters in to fix the soil. He is already pushing his variety of nutes with what hes got. More "adjusters" possibly messing with his npk is just what he needs in his second grow.



I do agree with him 100% on the over watering though bud. So many people don't ever think to buy bags of large chunks of perlite/vermiculite. It can help dry time so much, and can make the roots go crazy. Space your waterings a little more. Also looks like you used whatever cal mag you had a little often. If only used once, not really needed.

Go to the organic forums and post this advice. Then duck! Organic growers who compost spend months preparing soil full juicy microbial goodness and would NEVER add peroxide to a soil. I do agree that PH is important, but keep in mind an organic soil controls it's own PH not water or solution. Water and additives can affect and change the soils ph over time but really have little if any short term effect on a good soils ph. I grow using 20 gallon bed's filled with FFOF and never consider PH, ever. I just think the simpler you keep it the less room to screw it up. As for the bug's if they are little black fungus knats don't worry about it. Their presence is also a sign that your over watering, they love a stagnant wet soil. Let your plants dry out and keep a fan on the pots for airflow and that will get rid of them.

 

[Kush Knight]

Go to the organic forums and post this advice. Then duck! Organic growers who compost spend months preparing soil full juicy microbial goodness and would NEVER add peroxide to a soil. I do agree that PH is important, but keep in mind an organic soil controls it's own PH not water or solution. Water and additives can affect and change the soils ph over time but really have little if any short term effect on a good soils ph. I grow using 20 gallon bed's filled with FFOF and never consider PH, ever. I just think the simpler you keep it the less room to screw it up. As for the bug's if they are little black fungus knats don't worry about it. Their presence is also a sign that your over watering, they love a stagnant wet soil. Let your plants dry out and keep a fan on the pots for airflow and that will get rid of them.

I agree ~40% on this. If that.

Organic growers do a lot of things. I guess I should mention the fact that my friends use a large amounts of local materials. Our local "soil" is clay from hundreds of years of pine needles and animal matter. Its to be used as an amendment, and if you add more than 15 % of the "soil" to the (smart)pot, you get very bad water retention. They amend with local guano, lots of sand, castings, compost, and the rare bit of okay quality soil from the Indians and their "secret patches". They grow in 100 gallon smart pots, which is a lot more volume than a measly 20 gallon. They have to buy large amounts of perlite/vermiculite, and peat. They dilute 1 cup 3% peroxide to every ~30 gallons of water. They use a slightly diluted tea 2-3 times a week, and topdress with fresh castings regularly. They use molasses, egg shells, etc and just about anything else you can name, they will tell you why they personally do or don't like it, and any tips they've learned in the 40 years they've been growing. And they've been the best quality local stuff, beating all other local indoor or outdoor plants with yearly consistency. Again, the maybe .15% peroxide solution is used for a very small oxygen boost. and it does not "foam" like 3% does.
IMO a regular oxygen boost can be more beneficial than all the myco in the world if you suffer frequent "drownings."

As for other organic growers, if they are solid set in their "secret recipe" they can kiss my ass. I know too many people that are all talk and can't even grow useable shake. If they don't know how to keep an open mind, they have no right to be growing marijuana.


As for the bugs, if fungus gnats, then its very likely they will survive a long time in that media. Even after you let it dry, the next watering day, the gnats will be there, and they'll be happy. Simple logic, water retention is why over watering occurs. Its hard to drown a hempy grow, because the media barely retains water. But you can still water too frequently in hempy, and thats when it truly is the growers fault, and can be fixed easily by just being a better gardener. My solution was peroxide, which killed my pests in under 5 days. So besides let it dry, what would be your solution for when the eggs all awaken the next watering? Only water with 1-3 cups water? Obvious recipe for rootballing, which is BAD.


And it doesn't matter how good the soil is, if you want any bit of professionality and consistency in your work, take the few extra minutes to ALWAYS pH. If your micro-organisms could talk, they would thank you for that much less work. Just keep the pH fluctuations in the right range, don't overfeed and cause the microbes to go dormant, and enjoy the rewards of an efficient rootzone. I don't even want to bother on trying to convince you of how stupid it is to not pH, no matter what the situation.

 

[weedenhanced]

Thanks a lot for the help guys. Wen't ahead with the flush, and removed the underbrush and went ahead and defoliated some of the fan leaves as well. Also no more Cal-n-Mag. They are looking a bit healthier than yesterday, I'm optimistic.

View attachment 3281421

Also another thing I noticed, some little bugs walking/flying around the area. Wen't ahead and sprayed everything with an alcohol/water mix to try get rid of them. Anyone know what they are?

There fine stop stressing lol stop fcking with to me it looks healthy as fck maybe give it a flush with a low dose of nuts let entire pot dry say no water 5 days then just feed as normal most ppl over manage there plants
I've never ph ed my water and I never will I use normal tap water and grow in normal soil and perlite mix I use Dutch masters nuts that r for hydro lol

The flying bugs is gnats mean u water to much and u dont let soil truly dry they can cause damage like u have the bottom leaves always die off as soon as they don't get enough light I think ur plant is excellent here is a good guide to for defiency if us wanna look through http://www.growweedeasy.com/marijuana-symptoms

 

[weedenhanced]

My plants at 4 weeks

 

[ODanksta]

if your tap water is at 7 or higher my guess is there's plenty of calcium in it. you can probably go your entire grow and never once have to supplement calcium. too much calcium will cause lockout.

If you are using tap water with organics it will kill your bennies

 

[Dboi87]

If you are using tap water with organics it will kill your bennies

Not necessarily

 

[workinit]

If you are using tap water with organics it will kill your bennies

It's chlorine and chloramine that will kill your bennies. If it's chlorine just let your water set out for a day or so and it will evaporate. From my understanding chloramine is a bit more problamatic. I've heard of people using the fishtank drops. I tried those once and it didn't end well, but that's another story.

 

[workinit]

I have rid myself of

I agree ~40% on this. If that.

Organic growers do a lot of things. I guess I should mention the fact that my friends use a large amounts of local materials. Our local "soil" is clay from hundreds of years of pine needles and animal matter. Its to be used as an amendment, and if you add more than 15 % of the "soil" to the (smart)pot, you get very bad water retention. They amend with local guano, lots of sand, castings, compost, and the rare bit of okay quality soil from the Indians and their "secret patches". They grow in 100 gallon smart pots, which is a lot more volume than a measly 20 gallon. They have to buy large amounts of perlite/vermiculite, and peat. They dilute 1 cup 3% peroxide to every ~30 gallons of water. They use a slightly diluted tea 2-3 times a week, and topdress with fresh castings regularly. They use molasses, egg shells, etc and just about anything else you can name, they will tell you why they personally do or don't like it, and any tips they've learned in the 40 years they've been growing. And they've been the best quality local stuff, beating all other local indoor or outdoor plants with yearly consistency. Again, the maybe .15% peroxide solution is used for a very small oxygen boost. and it does not "foam" like 3% does.
IMO a regular oxygen boost can be more beneficial than all the myco in the world if you suffer frequent "drownings."

As for other organic growers, if they are solid set in their "secret recipe" they can kiss my ass. I know too many people that are all talk and can't even grow useable shake. If they don't know how to keep an open mind, they have no right to be growing marijuana.


As for the bugs, if fungus gnats, then its very likely they will survive a long time in that media. Even after you let it dry, the next watering day, the gnats will be there, and they'll be happy. Simple logic, water retention is why over watering occurs. Its hard to drown a hempy grow, because the media barely retains water. But you can still water too frequently in hempy, and thats when it truly is the growers fault, and can be fixed easily by just being a better gardener. My solution was peroxide, which killed my pests in under 5 days. So besides let it dry, what would be your solution for when the eggs all awaken the next watering? Only water with 1-3 cups water? Obvious recipe for rootballing, which is BAD.


And it doesn't matter how good the soil is, if you want any bit of professionality and consistency in your work, take the few extra minutes to ALWAYS pH. If your micro-organisms could talk, they would thank you for that much less work. Just keep the pH fluctuations in the right range, don't overfeed and cause the microbes to go dormant, and enjoy the rewards of an efficient rootzone. I don't even want to bother on trying to convince you of how stupid it is to not pH, no matter what the situation.

Man I'm trying to be nice here but your info is plain wrong on many levels. Why don't you call the makers of promix and ask them why they don't recommend ph'ing when using their mix. It's on their website. They clearly state that the medium buffers PH, NOT THE SOLUTION OR WATER. Of course im sure your "friends" growing in 100 gallon buckets know more than them. It seems like your the one without the open mind.