White spots in center of leaves, stunted growth. Using Earth Juice. Whats wrong?
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Kush Knight
Well-Known Member
I understand quite well how medias buffer pH. Again I prefer less salts and a stable n-p-k in my media thank you very much.
Key word, BUFFER.
Buffer Definition:
A buffer is a solution containing either a weak acid and its salt or a weak base and its salt , which is resistant to changes in pH .
Key word here, RESISTANT. Does not mean impervious. Natural salts can leech away, albeit slowly.
So pHing the water for professionalism, accuracy, and consistency is WRONG?
Complete news to any PRO grower (indoor). Depending on the grower, nutes don't even get used in the same amounts the WEBSITE or INSTRUCTIONS say.
Even cannabis cup winners using promix, pH.
First result, with a nice google pop-out answer, http://kylekushman.com/topic/best-ph-for-promix/.
And finding any info not on the promix site that agrees with what you said, is seeming impossible. I'm finding 9/10-10/10 are saying to pH between 6.2 and 6.6 for promix. Very few insist on adding more limestone to the mix, most if not all are saying to pH the water to adjust the rhizosphere pH, basically giving 6.5 to a 4.9 pot, and 5.0 to a 7.0, etc.
Huh? Strange.... All the professional growers are pHing the promix... why, if they are wrong?
I have an open mind, but no one has yet to give an answer with any actual grounding great enough to sway me. All i need are repeatable, reputable facts to change my opinion. And those facts should be RELEVANT. "The company website says to." Is that why you stand by that opinion? I'm not saying its the case here, but ever heard of "corporate agenda?"
And btw, where is it CLEARLY stated WHY NOT to pH anyways. It just says its not necessary in soilless, and ro water will harm them. Sounds fishy, almost exactly like a marketing scheme to me. Not NECESSARY, but very beneficial. Again, I'm a Soil Enthusiast, not Hydrohead/soilless expert, so If you can provide a good grouping of pics showing the negatives of properly pHing in soilless, all power to you..
I also have some experience, and obviously have a better understanding of the do's and don'ts of industrial ag. For CONSISTENCY, you pH no matter what. Not saying you can't have buffers, you just have to pH on top of that, even if its unnecessary. 30 years from now, if growing is anything like it is now, you'll grow up and start pHing. Especially after the pollution builds up and rains average pH becomes 4.5 instead of 5.5, or maybe after you get unlucky and ruin 20 plants with non-pHed water. Or over-buffer and kill the plants.
Buffers are good, but again, they are not MY choice. Anything under 25 gallons of water, I'd pH. If I continued having the problems with pH in pro-mix, then I'd do the more permanent, higher risk choice and add limestone, etc. Buffers are great for acre sized adjustments.Thats how large scale farmers save on pHing. Otherwise they'd have to pH millions of gallons. So pHing the water is not feasible.
To produce an acre of corn, takes 350,000 gallons of water over a 100-day growing season. http://www.colostate.edu/Dept/CoopExt/4DMG/Xeris/howmuch.htm
Acidic (sour) soil is counteracted by applying finely ground limestone, and alkaline (sweet) soil is treated with gypsum (calcium sulfate) or ground sulfur.
http://www.almanac.com/content/ph-preferences
Anyways, in actual-factual-fucking-reality, how am I not keeping an open mind? I'm listening, and all I'm hearing is nonsense. Defending peroxide, while listing the known negatives, and insisting on pH for consistency. That must mean I or my friends know all and refuse to listen to any VALUABLE knowledge.....
I know you can grow without pHing. Done it before, and did this entire year without a pH meter because all I had was old test strips, and they were too humid I guess. But it is VERY OBVIOUS the plants suffered because of this. Not professional at all. If I wasn't broke as shit and could afford more than the $15-20 I spent on fert, soil, and pots this year....... Damn straight i'd have a ph meter, TDS meter, d/o meter, reservoir and air pump w/air stones for a stabilized aerated water, soil fertility test kit (professional if I want to figure out the exact nute needs of a strain on a weekly basis,) compost bin, green housing material, organic or light synthetics, teas, castings, blood-meal, bone-meal, crab-meal, guanos, fish emulsions, rock dusts, fungal and bacterial compost etc..
Just watch some growing your greens to get an idea of what I agree with.
But yeah, because the WEBSITE says its not necessary, and because there is apparently only one way to use a product, I must be wrong.
Fucking ignorance.
And this....
I'm so sick of this retarded, constantly repeated advice. Heres an excerpt from something you should read before giving advice. Just letting the pot dry normally does not work. I should know, I got rid of fungus gnats and root aphids in one h202 watering after a 16 day dry+fan combo did NOT work. It didn't matter to me that the bennies were half dead after, because they grow back, unlike everything the pests destroy. And I didn't have to wait and have pests for another minimum 2 week treatment while those damn pests fed.
Fungus gnat broods will overlap, because every 1 1/2 to 4 weeks there is a new brood of flies. The life cycle (egg
laying to fly emergence) is 18 to 26 days at 65-75 degrees F. The adults live about one week.
http://pss.uvm.edu/ppp/pubs/el50.htm
What do i get when your guarantee isn't worth shit? All your rep? A 14 day fan treatment seems outright hilarious to anyone informed who is familiar with how long insect eggs can lay dormant waiting for rain. And those strips catch adults, not eggs. So you get an outbreak every watering day. The way this doesn't happen is if you use 1 to 1 &1/4 cup vermiculite/perlite (varying sizes) to 2 cups soil. Which as I stated earlier, is not an option in this case. So I suggest sand/aquarium gravel, h202, or organic pesticides (that don't normally work).
Next time you "help" be able to back it up. Theres a million techniques. I just prefer the ones based in fact that are tried and true. Keep it rather simple, but not below the basics. Then you'll be less likely to have problems. You philosophy of keep it as simple as possible to have as few problems as possible needs some major re-adjustment. I recommend reading a few books on botany, plant biology, and other agricultural literature. NOT SPECIFICALLY ABOUT MJ.
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Kush Knight
Well-Known Member
But yeah, If OP wants to learn something BASED IN FACT about fungus gnats,
http://pss.uvm.edu/ppp/pubs/el50.htm
all creds to the author,
G.R. Nielsen, Former Extension Entomologist, Plant and Soil Science Department.
and the host
University of Vermont Extension
Department of Plant and Soil Science
http://pss.uvm.edu/ppp/pubs/el50.htm
all creds to the author,
G.R. Nielsen, Former Extension Entomologist, Plant and Soil Science Department.
and the host
University of Vermont Extension
Department of Plant and Soil Science
ODanksta
Well-Known Member
My homeboy was using tap water and he was bubbling it for 48 hours using General Organics. All of his plants always looked shitty and never had any mycos in his soil. I told him to buy a RO system and now is plants look great, and nice white webs on bennies in his soil. true story
workinit
Well-Known Member
Say whatever you want about PH and organic soil but I don't and know some who never PH and everything is just peachy. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. As for the Knats I personally have wiped out a very large infestation in less than two weeks. The key is keeping the very top layer of soil dry and bug strips to catch fliers. If I water at lights on the top of my soil is already dry by lights out. I simple 10" fan does the trick nicely. Make it hard as you want but it's truly not necessary.
Kush Knight
Well-Known Member
and the other post you just deleted with the pic of the average $500-$750 grow showing some sort of stress (likely heat, humidity, or watering frequency, but could even be the GODDAMN pH LOL). The white pistils should be straight as shit. You make me laugh, trying to prove me wrong with an average looking group of plants, with rather small looking buds for what you are using technique and budget-wise. I got just as fat buds with my T5 (ugly lookin leaves, some buds have low trich count, some buds full fosty and purp, with P,Zn,Fe,Mg defs and 50F weather, 20% rh, NO PH-ING, poor quality ferts, low drainage high clay soil, only one fixed point fan, etc.) If I had your setup, plus choice of organic nutes, I'd probably get another .2 gpw at least. Oooh I saved the pic. Re upload lol. Btw these look very familiar. Stolen pic?
Its really not fucking hard man to spend a bit of time and p fucking H. In good soil, you can get away without it. But good soil implies weekly pH testing and constant monitoring. Maintenancing is required. And I fucking doubt you really would know what good organic soil is. MY FUCKING POINT BEING for any consistency and professionality, pH anyways.
As for the G G GNATS, I'm speaking from experience too on a damn 16 day treatment for a 20 day invasion (from the point I first noticed so about 33 days from the real start best guess)with a fan (probably 20" square frame walmart fan). Have you never heard about insect eggs and larvae living (up to 20) years underground, through droughts, all for the one week adult life where they breed. Fungus gnats are not as full of vitality. in 2 weeks of drying you should have only about 1/4 the larvae still alive. At 3 weeks, only the eggs and ~1/10 the larval pop. survive. At ~5 weeks, most the eggs should be dead, leaving the next "outbreak" with a population way under triple digits. So a 5 week ridiculous fan dry, or a soil drench that kills EVERYTHING, but saves roots and promotes new growth. Again, you lose the bennies, but it'll only take 2-4 wks to max them back out waiting first for the myco THEN the trichoderma. And the plant does not NEED them to live, unlike the roots themselves.
Any site that recommends your methods, clearly states though different phrasings "it is a method to minimize" not completely eradicate.
Most true extermination methods are a chemical/organic soil drench. I wonder why? And h202 is just really easy cheap and non-toxic. Sand works as a wick+death layer. But bugs WILL venture down further if adequate airflow through the top layer of dry soil. The result is most people letting them live because visually the infestation is gone.
heres another thead to read. https://www.rollitup.org/t/anyone-try-hydrogen-peroxide-for-fungus-gnats.666375/ learn anything? Even sand doesn't work.
You keep basing what you say in ignorance, and have no right trying to say anything bout how "wrong" my info is. Close-mindedness is saying no I will not try a new thing, be it a way of thinking etc. I have and have not pHed, and the difference can be minimal to drastic. You are so against pHing, seemingly because not pHing is what works for you.
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workinit
Well-Known Member
Yea, 400g + out of a 4x4 tent with a 600w = $500 to $750?. First pic is a few weeks ago. Last three today Had a calcium issue eary that was related to those damn fish tank drops. They bind calcium and make it unavailable. Notice how it has not progressed from the first pic? A little calmag(not ph'd of course) and time = problem fixed. Totally stressed out and whimpy at @47 days. You were saying?
I am against adjusting ph in soil because it is not necessary. I've done it both ways and best results by far have been without the ph meter. I am a proponent of the KISS method. Less bottles, less mesuring and well less everything. It's a weed dude, people make this hobby way too complicated when it's just not necessary. Dirt, water and a little food goes a hell of a long way.
I am against adjusting ph in soil because it is not necessary. I've done it both ways and best results by far have been without the ph meter. I am a proponent of the KISS method. Less bottles, less mesuring and well less everything. It's a weed dude, people make this hobby way too complicated when it's just not necessary. Dirt, water and a little food goes a hell of a long way.
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workinit
Well-Known Member
Stolen pic? Straight pistils? Those straight enough for you? LMFAO, I guess I'll DO(not read someone elses) a grow journal with the next run to shut your dumb ass up.
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Kush Knight
Well-Known Member
I couldn't really see equipment but seemed like 2 lights. But yeah I was factoring electricity costs, water costs, possible nutes, tent, media, 2 lights and 2 ballast.
So we both agree, it works both ways, we just prefer a different method. I'm one of the ones who enjoys a detailed scientific journal style grow, trying to control all variables.
I was wondering stolen pic because I've seen a grow somewhere on the web almost exactly like this grow. Tray and plant layout was almost identical. Not that people can't just copy a room design anyway. Idk. They just look eerily similar
And i don't got any pics.... lol.. really backs me up.
I live with my mom, and these last 6 months, we've called the cops 8 times because the ridiculousness menopause can cause.
I got them as revegging miniature clones, late in season. With the budget and fert I got stuck with for flower (Expert gardener 15-30-15) my plants weren't too happy at week 2.5 of flower and on. They got stuck under a 4 bulb t5 in a shed because of a roommate on probation. They had no temp or rh control, and were in what i consider an environment that should regularly produce hermies (fucking 40F rainy nights, no heater, just a fan.)
There was just under 2 oz. of trich covered goodness, an ridiculously enough, ~1/3 oz near worthless bud with almost no trichs due to light intensity. For what they were and what they got fed, I was relatively happy. They tasted eh though, probably because of way too much chem fert, and the half-life of the fert is probably 2-3 months.
With more than ~$25 for 4 new pots (only used 2), cheap kellogg's soil for a ~10 gal and 5 gal, cheap fert, etc, I normally do better. I've grown other fruits and vegetables for ~10 years now, only started smoking 2.5 years ago, became interested in growing marijuana ~16 months ago. I can easily grow 4x4x4 bushes out of cheap walmart tomato genetics. Yeah thats right, I'm so poor, I use the bush to support itself and keep it off the ground, not no $10 tomato cage. The deer love it
As for the pistils, oddly enough having a hard time finding anything directly about it in direct article form, but finding all these damn threads about the pistils curling/browning early. Most strains I know of tend to keep the pistils straight as hell, and only just before reddening do they curl. Its part of the receding process. But stress can do that too, albeit normally accompanied by early reddening.
Now that I think about it, most weed i've smoked that has had curled pistils like yours, had rather low trich count and was coupled by a weird structure with lots of stuff i'd trim off on the inside of the bud, surrounded by stuff i didn't want to damage. Maybe that was just the strain tho?
idk, im getting tired of this thread lol.
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workinit
Well-Known Member
Actually we don't agree. I don't agree that adding phosphoric acid to my soil is a good thing. Over time it will lower the ph of your soil and therefore give you a real PH problem. Not the catch all PH problem that people like to use to explain their stupidity. PH is soooo misunderstood in soil. Soiless is different. I mean real living soil. It's not necessary and will actually cause major problems last month of your grow. PH and adding way to much P are the bane of most growers. Get some FFOF and a bottle of Dynagro Foliage Pro and prepare to be amazed.I couldn't really see equipment but seemed like 2 lights. But yeah I was factoring electricity costs, water costs, possible nutes, tent, media, 2 lights and 2 ballast.
So we both agree, it works both ways, we just prefer a different method. I'm one of the ones who enjoys a detailed scientific journal style grow, trying to control all variables.
I was wondering stolen pic because I've seen a grow somewhere on the web almost exactly like this grow. Tray and plant layout was almost identical. Not that people can't just copy a room design anyway. Idk. They just look eerily similar
And i don't got any pics.... lol.. really backs me up.
I live with my mom, and these last 6 months, we've called the cops 8 times because the ridiculousness menopause can cause.
I got them as revegging miniature clones, late in season. With the budget and fert I got stuck with for flower (Expert gardener 15-30-15) my plants weren't too happy at week 2.5 of flower and on. They got stuck under a 4 bulb t5 in a shed because of a roommate on probation. They had no temp or rh control, and were in what i consider an environment that should regularly produce hermies (fucking 40F rainy nights, no heater, just a fan.)
There was just under 2 oz. of trich covered goodness, an ridiculously enough, ~1/3 oz near worthless bud with almost no trichs due to light intensity. For what they were and what they got fed, I was relatively happy. They tasted eh though, probably because of way too much chem fert, and the half-life of the fert is probably 2-3 months.
With more than ~$25 for 4 new pots (only used 2), cheap kellogg's soil for a ~10 gal and 5 gal, cheap fert, etc, I normally do better. I've grown other fruits and vegetables for ~10 years now, only started smoking 2.5 years ago, became interested in growing marijuana ~16 months ago. I can easily grow 4x4x4 bushes out of cheap walmart tomato genetics. Yeah thats right, I'm so poor, I use the bush to support itself and keep it off the ground, not no $10 tomato cage. The deer love it
I will explain why you don't ph when using organic nutrients. Organics do not feed plants directly, they feed the "microherd" which in turn through a symbiotic relationship feed your plants. PH is not involved, PERIOD. Your plants don't eat shit, the microorganisms do.
I had a huge Fungus Knat infestation first week of flowering of this grow. It was due to my laziness. I used two pest strips and a fan to eliminate them in two weeks. I don't give a fuck what you or anyone else read somewhere.
Dude, we are all aware that you don't know what your talking about.
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Kush Knight
Well-Known Member
im out, ignoring your ridiculousness.
First there are multiple organic things you can use in the WATER to adjust pH. So no phosphoric acid dipwad.
Next, I know very well how bad p is, and how often people (over) use it. I would have loved to be able to switch ferts, but your dunce-ass doesn't seem to understand what broke means. It means I didn't want to grow my plants at all w/o proper feed but my broke ass mom insisted that an 1/8th was better than nothing. Which its not. But since she bought them, they were literally forced to continue living. With fucking p lockout coupled with mg zn fe and 02 defs, and with calcium building up..
You don't grow very well with your budget, ask the real pros. Those are slightly above average plants, looked after by an average gardener/pot-growing enthusiast. Nothing special. If they had 3%cbn 12%cbd 12% Delta9 THC-A, and you bred them yourself, then they'd be amazing.
Im surprised I got more than a single half oz off the plants in my grow this year. I grew ~$200 worth of weed, for ~$25 with a borrowed light and power in the lease. Thats a 800% return on my investment. NOT giving the plants what they wanted. And I know I wasn't. I was only checking on them once every 2.5-3 weeks because the motivation was gone. 4 different times I had to be convinced not to rip those plants up in veg, and I wanted them gone because I couldn't stand seeing them suffer so much. 800% return, without any of my prefered materials and none of my preferred practices, with minimal attention under a t5.
Give me your budget and just guess what I can grow.
Id be doing some damn vscrogging with light movers and co2 feeding for $500. Plus, I'd have an aquarium, worm farms, cricket farms, maggot farms, bat/owl houses, and 2 damn compost piles (fungal and bacteria). Efficiency.
Maybe I'll experiment with aquaponics someday. Anyways your dumb-ass is ignored for repeating the same fucking info i already said and you disagreed with. Talking to you is making it really hard for words to even come out fluently.
I hate talk to brick walls
Many pains, long time hurting. Need to smokes. Why people close mind? Fucking thickheaded.
workinit
Well-Known Member
You can't swing
You can't swing $15 bucks? Daaamn.
99% of the people on these boards are new to average growers and grow ave to shitty weed. They try to be what there not. For someone new to growing the best advice possible is keep it simple. Water and one bottle of nutrients in GOOD soil. Tweak ferts over a few grows for best results. And never ever ever feed over .8EC. So long is environment is good quality will be 95% of what a "professional" will grow. The bud in this pic was taken at 47 days and was grown with NON PH ADJUSTED tap water,FFOF and Dynagro foliage pro along with one feeding of calmag. Don't normally use calmag but it was needed do to my own stupididity THAT'S it. I'll take the pepsi challenge with any "professionally grown" bud that some guy spent $500 on some AN snakeoil any day of the week.
Yea, it's ALL very acidic you moron. Citric acid will accumulate in the soil just like phosphoric acid. Google it dumbass.im out, ignoring your ridiculousness.
First there are multiple organic things you can use in the WATER to adjust pH. So no phosphoric acid dipwad.
Next, I know very well how bad p is, and how often people (over) use it. I would have loved to be able to switch ferts, but your dunce-ass doesn't seem to understand what broke means. It means I didn't want to grow my plants at all w/o proper feed but my broke ass mom insisted that an 1/8th was better than nothing. Which its not. But since she bought them, they were literally forced to continue living. With fucking p lockout coupled with mg zn fe and 02 defs, and with calcium building up..
You don't grow very well with your budget, ask the real pros. Those are slightly above average plants, looked after by an average gardener/pot-growing enthusiast. Nothing special. If they had 3%cbn 12%cbd 12% Delta9 THC-A, and you bred them yourself, then they'd be amazing.
Im surprised I got more than a single half oz off the plants in my grow this year. I grew ~$200 worth of weed, for ~$25 with a borrowed light and power in the lease. Thats a 800% return on my investment. NOT giving the plants what they wanted. And I know I wasn't. I was only checking on them once every 2.5-3 weeks because the motivation was gone. 4 different times I had to be convinced not to rip those plants up in veg, and I wanted them gone because I couldn't stand seeing them suffer so much. 800% return, without any of my prefered materials and none of my preferred practices, with minimal attention under a t5.
Give me your budget and just guess what I can grow.
Id be doing some damn vscrogging with light movers and co2 feeding for $500. Plus, I'd have an aquarium, worm farms, cricket farms, maggot farms, bat/owl houses, and 2 damn compost piles (fungal and bacteria). Efficiency.
Maybe I'll experiment with aquaponics someday. Anyways your dumb-ass is ignored for repeating the same fucking info i already said and you disagreed with. Talking to you is making it really hard for words to even come out fluently.
I hate talk to brick walls
You can't swing $15 bucks? Daaamn.
99% of the people on these boards are new to average growers and grow ave to shitty weed. They try to be what there not. For someone new to growing the best advice possible is keep it simple. Water and one bottle of nutrients in GOOD soil. Tweak ferts over a few grows for best results. And never ever ever feed over .8EC. So long is environment is good quality will be 95% of what a "professional" will grow. The bud in this pic was taken at 47 days and was grown with NON PH ADJUSTED tap water,FFOF and Dynagro foliage pro along with one feeding of calmag. Don't normally use calmag but it was needed do to my own stupididity THAT'S it. I'll take the pepsi challenge with any "professionally grown" bud that some guy spent $500 on some AN snakeoil any day of the week.
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